Source: Fishing the Abyss

Comments: Chris P. and Ken Silva both, within a short period of time, suggest the Jesus was trying to confuse people with his parables. Chris P. gives an awful exegesis (based upon a literalist hermeneutic which treats the Bible as if it fell out of the sky, disconnected from time and space) in a Slice thread giving the same faulty interpretation of the use of parables. Chris L. at Fishing then posts a proper interpretation of the synoptic passage in question and the Isaiah portion referred to in prophecy.
Memorable Quotes:

Person A will use one of Jesus’ parables, to which Person B – in order to avoid addressing Person A’s point – will quote Luke 8:9-10 (or a synoptic equivalent) and declare that we can’t know what Jesus meant, because Jesus told parables to hide the truth from people!

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Source: Verum Serum

Comments: Slice (Ingrid, in particular) began having siezures in response to reports that some Christian college students are known to drink and smoke (in addition to the sun rising in the morning, and the sky being blue).  Scott and John give a bit more seasoned response to the situation, along with correcting some of Ingrid’s Victorian-era sensibilities.
Memorable Quotes:

A recent post over at Slice of Laodicea titled “On Hookahs, Emergents and Booze Aplenty” caught my attention a couple days ago. It begins by bemoaning the use of alcohol by students attending Christian colleges and seminaries, which I agree could be of concern (though I don’t know if all students who attend Christian schools of higher education and who also drink should be called “drunken sots” as they are in this post).

This Slice post then goes on to connect such behavior to the Emergent Church movement (of course…that particular devil is always hiding somewhere at Slice). The writer (Ingrid) lumps behaviors like drinking, smoking, etc together and then she sums everything up this way:

Some of us have looked at postmodern theology and wondered if it wasn’t crafted while under the influence of something. Perhaps now we’re getting a clearer picture. Frankly, this is disgusting. If these guys want to live like the world and the devil, do it. Don’t drag Jesus Christ into it. Take your choice but you can’t have both.

Obviously Ingrid’s opinion is that there is only one logical conclusion: anyone who drinks or smokes is living like the devil and couldn’t possibly be a “real” Christian. And of course her conclusion is based on exactly NOTHING from scripture. That’s right, there are exactly ZERO Biblical references to support the perspective that Ingrid and Slice want to advocate as being essential for being a real Christian, in this case that the use of alcohol and smoking are indicators of spiritual depravity.

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Source: Fishing the Abyss

Comments: Ingrid posted links to Mark Driscoll interviews for John Piper’s 2006 ‘Desiring God’ conference, where Mark discusses ‘Cultural Relevance’. Initially, Ingrid asks for her readers’ feedback on whether Mark has a legitimate issue. Unfortunately, the idea of someone in a mohawk attending church as a member convinces Ingrid that Mark must be a heretic. Here, Chris posts a link to the Driscoll video with brief commentary.
Memorable Quotes:

(Driscoll) does a concise job of pointing out how when we send out missionaries, we commend them for becoming culturally relevant (learning the language, dress, customs, etc.) and using that culture to convey the gospel of Christ. Yet, when someone in America does the same thing, say with punk rockers or the emo crowd, we accuse them of selling out. How hypocritical is that?

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Source: Bob Blog
Comments: Bob posts a video from a Saddleback worship service that included elements of dance. Ingrid has a cow over on Slice and posts the video. The video owner pulls the video. Ingrid cries ‘conspiracy!’. Bob laments Ingrid using his site for research purposes…
Memorable Quotes:

Let me quote myself from that post: Not to get too critical or anything… and… uhh… at the risk of having this video show up on Slice of Laodicea…

Well, it did. And then promptly was taken down by the owner, no doubt because of the flood of comments from people calling bad dancing by teens in matching outfits “Baal worship”

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Source: Verum Serum

Comments: The chutzpah of Ken Silva is sometimes staggering (though not in a good way). On this day, John responds to a post from Ken that, was so full of advice that Ken’s writing would suggest that he’s never followed, that the word ‘hypocrite’ seemed far too tame a description. John’s response is a rather concise documentation of why Ken is exactly the wrong man for this job…
Memorable Quotes:

When Ken called Rob Bell a “tool of Satan” and a “viper” (even while saying he may or may not be a brother — which is it, man of discernment?), was he “endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit?” He has at one point or another called almost everyone on this blog “spiritually blind.” Was that “lowliness and meekness?” Reading almost any post on his own blog, Apprising Ministries, one would be hard pressed to describe it as “seasoned with grace.”

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Drifting back to earth, I’d say Ken is the last man in 10,000 to be offering this sort of advice. Long ago, I wrote that I had not accused Ken of hypocrisy (though I did accuse him of legalsim). At least with regard to this one post, I’m forced to revise my assesment. There is simply no other word for it.

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Source: Fishing the Abyss

Comments: Ken posted an article on giving grace and kindness to brothers. Chris compares this to an arsonist teaching a fire safety course.
Memorable Quotes:

In today’s article, Ken writes:

Beloved, even though we will have differences may we be careful to honor our Lord in how we express those differences with fellow believers in our personal conversations with each other. Let us remember that it is written: “Let your speech be always with grace” (Colossians 3:16). (emphasis his)

This comes from the man who has called Christian brothers “spiritual pedophiles”, “cult leaders”, “wolves in sheep’s clothing” and “tools of Satan” (among other wonderful titles), and is continuing to do so on his website. As I’ve attempted to read many of his hate-filled articles, looking for the actual content on which he bases his wild assumptions and proclamations, I’m reminded of Lloyd Dobler’s sister in Say Anything and her lament:

“There’s no food in your food…”

Yeah – no food at all, just bile…

What is fairly unclear from both Ken & Ingrid’s writing of late is whether they are addressing their pro-Slice readers or only their critics. If they’re addressing the ‘amen chorus’ of Slice, it has missed the point, judging from the comments to recent posts. In fact, some of the nastiness was so vile in response to one post, that even Ingrid was finally forced to pull the plug on that thread. Slice’s intra-church bomb-throwing has become so ludicrous that the FARK website this week linked to their vegetable-chopping war on Veggie Tales. Sadly, if you read the comments on FARK to this article (language warning!), you will see what an awful witness Slice has become to the world.

Go Team!

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[brendt commented brilliantly] Ingrid stated in response to some of her critics who keep coming back for more Slice despite it being repulsive:

Well, if the site is indeed as twisted and sick as you say, perhaps you should spend your time more profitably on something you find edifying. I’m not responsible for your own voyeuristic tendencies.

So I guess the moral here would be that if you read a blog that you often find objectionable, then it’s “voyeuristic”. But if you write a blog whose ENTIRE EXISTENCE AND MISSION is reliant upon searching the church for things you find objectionable, then it’s a “ministry”.

I’m so glad she cleared that up.

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Source: Fishing the Abyss

Comments: Who will watch the watchman? Chris asks this seminal question about what oversight watchbloggers, like Slice, should have.
Memorable Quotes:

Quis custodiet ipsos custodies – who will watch the watchmen? This dilemma has been posed in many ways over the eons, with Plato’s Socrates as the first in written record. According to the wikipedia article on the subject, Plato’s answer was:

they will guard themselves against themselves. We must tell the guardians a noble lie. The noble lie will inform them that they are better than those they serve and it is, therefore, their responsibility to guard and protect those lesser than themselves.

This is all good and fine when we’re talking about civil authority, but what happens when self-appointed “watchmen” in the church believe the “noble lie”? What happens when morality gives way to sanctonimity, and disagreement becomes heresy? Who will watch the watchmen?

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Probably the first comment I hear about Slice (after their tone) is their discussion policy, which basically is this: If you agree with the poster, your comment is likely to be approved from moderation. If you disagree with the poster, your comment is most likely to disappear into the ether, unless it can be easily disputed or mocked (and even then, it is most likely to be rejected). Should you persist in your disagreement, you will be banned – or worse.

The pro-Slice comments that do get approved from moderation often get meaner and more judgemental than the original articles – referring to Christian brothers as ‘tools of Satan’, ‘worse than Charles Manson’, ’spiritual pedophiles’, ‘Lucifer’s army’, ‘child molesters’ and much worse.

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In a recent Slicecast, Ken Silva said:

There were times I’m writing these articles and I literally turned to the Lord, as if He was standing there, and I said ‘Lord, I didn’t know that. I could not have written that sentence.’ I say that time and time again. I take no credit for this. I’m one of the few who’ll tell you that.

With this mindset, Ken frequently seems to give his words the authority of Jesus or inerrency, and I truly wonder how he would ever know if it wasn’t God that was moving that pen and writing sentences he ‘could not have written’.

With Ken, in particular, I have had to call him out for slandering a brother in the faith (see http://www.verumserum.com/?p=529#comment-3225 ) when he has overstepped his God-granted bounds. I hope he will address this issue, but I somehow doubt he will.

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Source: Verum Serum

Comments: Ken Silva goes begging for money in most bizarre fashion, denigrating those who might be so inclined as to agree with him without paying for his services, all the while completely misrepresenting (unsurprisingly) his target’s motives and actions.  Scot flays the transparent tissue of lies Ken has constructed before providing a community services by providing links to legitimate ministries that examine liberality within the church.
Memorable Quotes

Apparently, the purpose of this recent post is to demonstrate how vital Ken’s ministry is as it reaches around the globe, “saving people” from the death and deceit found within the evil confines of the Emergent Church movement (among other things).

And guess what…at the end of this post he asks for money. How very TBN of him!

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If one were to read over many of the articles over at Apprising Ministries, or the articles over at Slice where Ken regularly spews his views upon unsuspecting travelers to the site, I think many Christians would question whether that kind of “ministry” is necessary or should be supported financially.

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There are other ministries out there that do it “stronger, better, and faster” (to quote the 6 Million Dollar Man) and that don’t make wild accusations while positing groundless suppositions and ridiculous assumptions. If you are concerned about things like the Seeker Sensitive movement, the Emergent Church, the Purpose Drive Life/Purpose Driven Church series, etc, you might want to check out these very respectable, very credible, and very orthodox organizations:

Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (http://www.rzim.org/)

The Bible Answer Man (www.equip.org)

Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry (http://www.carm.org/)

Stand to Reason (http://www.str.org)

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Source: To the Tune of Tim
Comments: Tim was (briefly) a great commenter on Slice, someone with excellent reasoning abilities and obvious compassion. As you can most likely guess, he didn’t last all that long before he was banned for disagreeing with Ken’s company line that Donald Miller is a unregenerate heretic. Tim has an incredibly well-written description of his being kicked out of the ‘lifeboat’ of Slice.
Memorable Quotes:

My most favorite song of his is called “Jesus is for Losers”. In an interview that I saw from the first ever Christian music video program, filmed in Pittsburgh, the host Tom Green (not the MTV guy) asked Steve Taylor how he came up with the song. Steve responded, as only Steve Taylor could, that he was sitting on the toilet reading a magazine about how a porn star became a Christian, and his initial reaction was “Great! That’s just who we need representing…” and he stopped himself realizing that if Jesus isn’t for the people who are living completely opposite of what God wants, and if Jesus isn’t for the people at the end of their rope, and if Jesus isn’t for the poor, the hungry, and so on, then who is Jesus for? He wouldn’t be for me because I have it altogether, right? Unless I recognize that I, too, am a loser (aka sinner).

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The responses were either labeling of me or further name-calling of Miller and the church community with whom he lives and worships. Pressing the point further did not motivate the author to return to the actually questions I ask, simply to walk away saying we wouldn’t agree so what? One commentor chastised me for being disrespectful, which was quickly refuted by another saying: “Tim has presented the most coherent, and I think respectful, critique of Ken Silva, a man who regularly disrespects and maligns “ordained pastors” himself, that I’ve seen on here in a while. Give him a break.“

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I did not receive notice that I have been banned, just that when I try to post, I get an error saying that I am not allowed to comment. So just as there is an avoidance to constructive challenges or dialog, there is also an avoidance now of any dialog.

My first reaction was short anger. This lasted approximately 2 seconds. My next reaction was laughter, not as in a joke, but in a realization of irony that something I said must have been too true. My third, and longest, reaction was contemplation, wondering what is was exactly that I said that got me kicked out of their lifeboat.

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Source: Russ’ Ramblings

Comments: Russ takes the side of the oppressed when Slice decides to bully up on a young church that has decided to rent out a movie theater for their weekly worship services. When the church become a building and not the people in it?
Memorable Quotes:

Why are they piling the sarcasm and snark on this group?

• Not because they’ve evaluated the statement of faith of the church.
• Not because they know that that pastors have a wrong view of theology
• Not because they even know the people who are taking the risk to start this church

Because they have chosen to meet in a movie theater…

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[reposted comment from Slice] Hey, yeah…! In fact, why not just SHOW a movie! Yeah! Then all the people wouldn’t have to feel like they were at a church service at all! I mean, why not get rid of all that stuff that makes them uncomfortable EMOTIONALLY… you’re already getting rid of the physical discomforts. The best thing you could do is make sure people feel good about their lives. People need to be encouraged to do their own thing, not to get held down with a lot of guilty religious talk. What a super idea!

Goobers instead of Galatians…
Red-hots instead of repentance…

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