Who’s Who In This Story? You Decide.
There is an interesting story found in Luke 18. Jesus is teaching about prayer. He tells us we need to be like a persistent widow, who stands no chance of getting justice from a judge but finally gets it because she “annoys” the judge into doing it. But that’s not the story I’m referencing. I want to talk about the story about the pharisee and the tax collector. I am about to forage into some potentially dangerous territory and I realize it but I can no longer sit back and watch certain people attack Godly men who are actually doing something for God and just say, “well some of what he’s saying may have validity.” In the past I’ve gone on record and called one such man a heretic. Today I am about to compare him to a pharisee and the accusation will be out in plain sight so…do with that what you will.
First the story:
” 9He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10″Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
–Jesus as quoted by Luke in chapter 18
I first started mulling this passage over in contemplation for a post on my own journal discussing what it truly means to be a Christ follower. Some day I will no doubt get to that post but then I ran over to another webpage where I found this article. I’m going to quote just a little of it for you.
“O God, please save us from men who have such poor discernment and are leading so many people into the Emergent Church the new cult of liberal theology. But know this: Current leaders within the SBC sleep on at their peril because our Lord will not be mocked by these Emergent vipers and their rebellion against the Word of God.” Ken Silva (Online Source) (Emphasis Mine)
Notice the “save us from them.” If Jesus came today in human form and was teaching on prayer might he have changed the prayer to say, “Dear God, thank you that I am not like the ‘Emergent Strawmen’ who have fallen so far away from You, unlike me, your faithful servant who has served faithfully and hard pointing out their errors.”
In truth, I have no problem if men like Ken Silva want to pray this prayer. Who am I to question what someone says in a conversation between them and God? The problem is Mr. Silva brought all of us into the conversation with his incessant linking to his articles. He put his prayer into the public arena and as such it needs to be addressed.
One does have not have to do much reading to see the pride with which Mr. Silva claims to be proclaiming his ministry, and to an extent I can understand that. I wonder what it would look like if Ken and Ingrid and the crew were to simply stop attacking other men and simply beat their chest and say “God have mercy on us.” Where would that take us?
Perhaps, a man that Rob Bell likes to quote would be a good source for us to consider. He says this,
“6But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.” —Jesus as quoted by a simple Tax Collector called Matthew
8 Comments(+Add)
Joe – interesting – I just posted a couple days ago on the same verse and same person at Slice/CRN….
P.S. — “interesting” in the sense that a couple of guys who don’t know each other are blogging on the same verse and same person at nearly the same time. (I just realized my attempt at brevity might be confusing).
Joe,
You’re missing a critical point in your interpretation and application of the passage.
1. The passage is about justification (salvation). One man is trying to justify himself by his works (the pharisee) the other knows that God’s law has pegged him and he is doomed (the tax collector). This isn’t about someone who is closed minded vs. someone who is innocent of no wrong doing. The passage shows that they are both condemned according to the law but only one of them realizes it.
2. Applying this verse to Ken Silva is a misuse of the passage.
2b. Ken believes like the tax collector that he is sinful and is saved by the mercy of God in Christ. His apologetics against the Emergent Church and its leaders as well as those who follow the word faith movement and oneness doctrines are not based on self-righteousness. They are based on a passion for the truth of Scripture.
3. If you want to do anybody any good on this blog you must show from scripture that the doctrines that Ken esposes are not Biblical. You must defend the truth. Show us from scripture that the Emergent Church and its doctrines are true. Show us from scripture that Liberal Theology is the truth. Show us from scripture that it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you are sincere.
4. Ken has good Biblical examples to fall back on of men who have had the courage to say that false religion and false teachers are in error and need to repent and turn to the truth. I.E. Elijah, Jerimiah, Paul, Peter and Jesus Christ.
Your misapplication of Luke 18 does not prove your case.
What is truth?
What are the consequences of error?
What does the Bible tell us our responsibility is regarding truth and error?
Chris,
1) I only have a second here, but I think there is vast proof of the faultiness in Ken’s attitude and methods (with scriptural backing), and one need only click on the “Ken Silva” category above to get a decent start.
2) I don’t know that Joe, John or myself are “emergent” or consider ourselves to be followers of Liberal Theology, so why would we seek to prove these
3) When you study Ken’s methodology and poor exegetical skills (let alone the absence of logical discourse), most reasonable readers would note that Ken follows Torquemada far more than Elijah, and the Saul of Acts 7 moreso than the Paul post Acts 13. There is a difference between “courage” and “demagoguery”, and Ken’s shrill pipings are more the latter than the former.
As for Ken fitting in this passage, I see the parallel. While Ken may not profess he is saved by his works, the arrogance oozing from his writing and foolish pride in his treatment of those who question him suggest comparison to the Pharisee, and not the publican.
Chris Rosebrough brings up the true point.
Jesus said that who men are, will be known by their fruit. The fruit are not good works or tolerant attitudes.
Matthew 7 is quite plain in this. Jesus said beware of false prophets. They are known by their fruit, i.e. what they prophecy, say, teach. This is also the point of the letter written by James. Teachers will be held to higher account for what they teach,. That is what the taming the tongue chapter begins with. We make “righteousness” all about tolerance or acceptance. That is not it at all. The Pharisee in the above parable is not a believer in Christ, the publican is.
I will never baost in my own righteousness as I have none of my own, and I never did. It is, as Isaiah, said, filthy rags, i.e. a menstrual cloth; that which is the remains of the unconceived egg, i.e. not producing life.
However I, or Ken or any regenerate man/woman can boast in the righteousness of Jesus imputed to us. I am saved by, for, and through Jesus Christ, to the glory of the Father.
We can see the harm that pelagian and hyper arminian theologies have done to the church. (once again I say I am niot a 5 point calvinist) There is no focus whatsover on the glory, sovreignty, omniscince/prescience. okmnipresencve, and omnipotence of God.
This fixation on Ken is quite amazing.
Russ N. it is interesting that you are blogging on the same verses as I believe the Lord wanted others to drop by and deliver the Truth. Isn’t that arrogant? Bwaaaaaahhhhh!
Please do not give me Hillei and the rabbinical school. I onmy care about what the Word says. If the Lord deemed Hillel’s influences as important, there would have been “literal” reference to such.
We can judge why is His and who is not, by the power of the Holy Spirit not on our own. Prove to all that any who Ken has confronted are actually proclaiming the Jesus of the word.
The ravenous wolves that both Jesus and Paul warned us of, are not the disobedient, non-vigilant pastor/shepherds who let this garbage in their front doors. They are these new “prophets” dressed in sheep’s clothing.
The wise men build on the good foundation of Jesus’ words, i.e. they know, before they do.
Chris P. — need a tissue? I don’t get the “Bwaaaaaahhhhh!” Are you screaming, wailing, crying in your Cheerios?
In my saying that things were interesting I didn’t equate myself with a prophet. I’m also not aware of Rob Bell, Rick Warren, et al that Ken attacks saying they were prophets – if I’m wrong, then I’ll admit my error.
As for James and teachers being held to a higher standard – I completely agree – and Ken should be concerned….especially since he has driven off more people than the number still attending his church. Christ’s mandate to his followers was to make disciples of all peoples — shoving off 7 and leaving 6 is hardly reaching all the peoples. Echo chamber and/or holy huddle perhaps sounds more appropriate.
Russ,
Re: prophets in the church:
Perhaps in the church we need to consider whether what I call “salesman prophecy,” is biblical: for example, statements made on videos sent all over the world that say things like, “I KNOW God is going to use this program to bless your church.” Statements like that are cousins to statements like, “If you send us a minimal gift of $25, I just know God will bless you.”
Personally I find someone speaking to me over a video/tv saying that they know God is going to bless me through them or through my giving to them as lying and manipulative, salesman speech.
Chris P.
I was wondering if you would address the verse in Matthew where Jesus says, “let your light shine before men that they may see your good works” I ask because up above you said that good works are not part of our fruit.