Earlier tonight, a new poster, Marsha, commented on this thread. I was a bit confused by her comment,
God will judge those who mock the righteous. Remember the little children who taunted Elisha.
Since she specifically used the word ‘mock’, I assumed she was referring to “Pastor” Silva’s recent self-admitted mocking of Erwin McManus, a righteous man of God and ordained minister of the Mosaic church (a direct quote from Ken, “Yes, yes, absolutely I am mocking [McManus]“). Or possibly she was referring to Silva’s earlier mocking of SBC President, Frank Page.
Not knowing her context (and forgetting that I could follow the link on her name to her blog to look for clues), I wrote:
Marsha,
To this point, I’m not aware of anyone who writes for this site who has mocked anyone.
However, Ken Silva is a self-described ‘mocker’ of Erwin McManus and other righteous brothers and sisters in Christ, so perhaps it is he you are talking to?
Just wondering…
After this, Joe directed my attention to Marsha’s blog, which is ambitiously titled “Proclaiming Truth”, and found that it had a sum total of three articles dated back to ten days ago, with the same alarmist, affected language as Ken.
As of tonight, her ‘blog’ has a fourth article, which I include, in its entirety, below:
Go Up Thou Baldhead!
This was the cry of disrespect to God’s annointed from foolish, immature children. They were cursed and God’s Word says that a bear came and tore them. To mock or make light of the ministries of godly men brings the mockers squarely into the crosshairs of God’s wrath.
This website will make your skin crawl as you read rebellion in every word for the world to see.
To double their sin one of them derides and attacks Steve Camp for his timely warnings about the cult of Emergent. He actually defends sin! He delights in what is evil!
I pray God’s mercy on him. I pray he repents in time.
Soli Deo Gloria
Now, the ’skin crawling’ website is CRN.info (?!?). Her only comment on this site (and the only article I can see her IP address hitting, though I’m not very good with the IP tracker) is on the recent ‘Christian’ vs. ‘Christ-Follower’ article (in which I took both sides of the debate to task, on points).
While I think that Steve Camp is way off-base in his comments, I know that none of the 5 authors on this site (me, John D., Joe, Nathan, or Neil) have attacked Mr. Camp. The blog she links to belongs to ‘another nathan’ who posted on that thread. Since we do not censor comments to shape our appearance of correctness like some sites *cough*Slice*cough* used to do, we do not claim responsibility for what others write, whether they be ‘another nathan’ or ‘Marsha’.
Marsha, since you have seen fit to call our salvation into question (if I read you right), could you please elucidate us with your exegetical analysis of our error. Be specific, quoting specific articles (or comments by one of the five of us), and then rebut us either in your own words or using scripture (preferably not KJV, for the sake of readability), though your interpretation of the relevance of the scriptures used would be appreciated, as I’ve found that without this, the possibility of misunderstanding one’s exegesis compounds exponentially.
I am not mocking you, by any means, but trying to figure out why it is you have seen fit to attack your Christian brothers by questioning their salvation.
We do not mock Ken. We strenuously despise the methods by which he lies about and slanders brothers in Christ. These methods have been documented by numerous bloggers, and in great detail. If you would like specific references, I will give them to you. Despite this disagreement with Mr. Silva, though, and despite the heat generated in some of the discussions, none of us has questioned Mr. Silva’s eternal destination, which is only up to the mercy and grace of God.
Also, just to save you some time in bringing in criticism of the ‘Emergent Church’ or the ‘emerging church’, none of the five of us worship at a church that would fit within these definitions. None of us are “emergents”, so please do not try to duck behind broad generalizations or labels. Instead, please use specific words we have written against us (in context, if possible).
Thank you,
Chris
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30 Comments(+Add)
Ok, I’ll make a two part bet with anyone who wants to do so:
1. She’ll never respond. (Highest bet will be a dollar and you need to email me with your snail mail address)
2. If she does respond she’ll not answer the questions, she’ll just spout mis-used Scripture or call us emergent, rebellious, apostates. Anyone? Anyone?
Joe – careful, careful. Betting? I’m sure someone somewhere will find issue with that.
And no – I wouldn’t take that bet.
Hey Joe,
If I take this bet what do I get if I win the? Just curious.
Erica,
How about the original American Idol bet we had?
Haven’t we tried that already? I will think this one over and e-mail you. I believe I have your e-mail address. I will have to look:-)
I just read her blog. It makes me wish I was in there camp. I hope unbelievers never run across CRN or this particular blog. What a disgrace to the name of Christ. They are nothing but a bunch of Christians who have nothing better to do than bash thier brother and sister in Christ. It is sad!
I guess we know who’s watching the watcher’s watchers. Marsha is.
Erica,
How do you really feel?
I told you when I get around to it I will e-mail you Mr Martino. I am still thinking about the bet. I will also tell you how I really feel. I guess I was not forward enough for you:-)
We don’t have to mock Ken… He does that pretty much to himself… (Grin)
Blessings,
iggy
I am really tired of all these blogs that simply post links to each other’s blogs. Where are the people that can think for themselves? I have seen a thousand blogs like Marsha’s. Every post has one or two sentences (usually a horrific statement about how the emergent church is leading thousands astray) and a link to Apprising / CRN.
What scares me is that so many people simply follow suit with Ken. They are not able to take in, pray through and synthesize information for themselves. But then again, i think that is how the church has got to the place that it is in. People didn’t bother to think, pray, read the word for themselves, and just got spoon-fed from a pastor. Why have your own spiritual life when someone can do it for you?!
hmm…anyone know how to contact Ken? I tried the email at apprising but either it doesn’t go to him or he doesn’t reply to questions…
Well, Hey he’s answered me (sort of) at releventChristian he called me apostate and Chris Lyons blind for saying I wasn’t. He of course did not answer any of my questions about his being a fraud and a liar. He also failed to answer why he thought it was OK to lie about another brother (McManus).
Well, Hey he’s answered me (sort of) at releventChristian he called me apostate and Chris Lyons blind for saying I wasn’t. He of course did not answer any of my questions about his being a fraud and a liar. He also failed to answer why he thought it was OK to lie about another brother (McManus).
Nathan,
I left a question for you under “Christ against culture.” If you’re not going to answer it, I’d like to know. I just want to make sure that I don’t get left thinking that you don’t want to answer it when you may not have ever seen it.
Tim,
If you have some serious questions about something and want to get a kind well-thought out answer from a different viewpoint than you’d get here, I’d recommend going here:
http://galatiansc4v16.wordpress.com/
By the way, I also used to go to a brethren church in some ways like the one you described, although they were very ministry oriented. I have never been in a church where people were so focused on the Word. It was the only church near us that had more than about 7 people in it (the other churches were for “marrying and burying.”) The people were wonderfully hospitable to us “strangers in a foreign land,” – made our time in a difficult ministry enjoyable.
Everyone is looking for a leader and, when they find him/her/the organization, they start a free blog to denounce those not following.
Before blogs, we only had the ability to judge our neighbor. Now we can judge everyone! And link to them to let them know!
I’ve never seen the word apostasy used as much as I have in the past year.
sorry Amy,
I will go over there right now.
Ok, Ken just called his writing inspired again and he called himself Rob and Erwin’s peer. I’m not sure what he was saying by that.
Go here and read it yourself
http://relevantchristian.wordpress.com/2007/03/28/no-apology-necessary/#comment-235
Just ignore her. You’ve probably given her a real boost by even dedicating a post to her. Isn’t that what people want? Don’t give people the satisfaction.
I know this is snarky, but there was a writer who said:
Sometimes you have to let other people be right, it consoles them for not being anything else.
It’s just not worth it. Plus, you’ll drive yourselves nuts chasing down every “disciple”.
Just my two cents…
dear diary
~made a bad mistake, stumbled accross this site today, and I do mean stumbled(ouch)~
~stubbed toe, whole foot is aching now~
~what do they call this thing they do here? is this life in Christ? me thinkest not~
(note to self…don’t wander over to the dark side again)
“keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life” – Jude, brother of Jesus
Marsha,
I can only speak for my own attitude, of course. But I have tried to refrain from mocking those with whom I disagree (not that the others who post here do mock – I’m just speaking strictly on my own motivations). I have repeatedly referred to Ken (for e.g.) as a brother in Christ just to be absolutely clear that I am not questioning his salvation.
I think him a neo-fundamentalists who strains at gnats… and who, even if he has a valid point his delivery is so vitriolic as to render the point moot…
It’s his anger, attitude, and exegesis I address. I may apply labels (e.g. neo-fundamentalists), I not call him names (e.g. “foolish†“pseudo-Christian†“reformation hater†– used by Ken).
Neil
Joe,
Is this what you meant by “inspiration?”
“I will faithfully write what God leads me to write, to the end;”
Lot’s of people talk this way.
Not trying to be contentious of course
Joe,
Not that “lot’s of people write this way” should justify anything. Of course I don’t know whether or not “I will faithfully write . . . ” is the quote you’re referring to.
God does lead his children. (See Romans 8.) Sometimes I feel like he “leads me while I write.” But I know that often my flesh gets in the way; otherwise why would there be the need for me to delete what I say at times before I post them.
I have thought at times that Ken goes beyond “God is leading me” to “God gives me every word.” He has denied that and I’ve chosen to believe him. Am I right in my choice? I don’t really know, but I think so.
It is a heavy responsibility to accuse someone of saying their writing is inspired, if that isn’t actually the case. It is a heavy responsibility to say that “Someone thinks they are God,” etc. We will give an account for everything we say. Just a thought.
Amy,
I’m not sure which quote I was referring to and to be honest I haven’t gone back to the thread to refresh my memory. I’ve been debating whether or not to post how I really feel about Ken and I’m not sure if it will be beneficial. I do think that Ken has intentionally lied about people, and gone way out of bounds in his accusations. I believe that he has gone too far in his statements about his writings. What’s worse is I believe he intentionally stirs up strife. If you go to Rick Frueh’s webpage (he commented on another thread here) he has a great post about watchblogging. I’m sure he and I wouldn’t agree on everything but that post is a home run. I have some very specific feeling about Mr. Silva that I will choose to keep to myself at this time. I’m not nearly as charitable as my fellow contributors on this page. Proverbs 16:28 says,
“A perverse man stirs up dissension…”
Grace and Peace
Amy,
You ask: “Am I right in my choice?” Yes, you are.
Now See Ken, you said you weren’t going to post here anymore? What good is a watchblogger who can’t keep his word?
Ken……do you answer to the email at apprising? And if not is there any way I can contact you by email? Or myspace? lol
Amy asked:
and Ken responded:
Therefore, I’ll take Pastor Silva at his word, that he does not mean to say that his words are inspired… and claiming such would not add to my argument.
Two attending comments:
1) I am giving Silva the benefit of the doubt based on what he has said and our common bond on Christ – two things he does not reciprocate to us nor those he attacks when he ignores their statements of Orthodox belief and questions their salvation
2) It is Silva’s attitude of anger and arrogance that overshadows any contribution he may lend. Most on this site have shown humility in admitting things they do not know, areas in which they admit they may be wrong, and even confessions of being wrong or copping a bad attitude – another two things (humility and admittance of error) that are sorely missing from Ken.
Neil
Neil
Cool!