Ironically you have proved the point even more. Christians have set up such false pretenses for what it means to be a follower of Christ, that the world mocks at us and laughts at us when we don’t meet the falsly high standards we have set We are being held up to such a high standard that isn’t even biblical. How do you think “Pagans” got the idea that “Christians are not supposed to in their minds”?

I dream of the day when “pagans” do not know us primarily by our stance against alcohol or gays. What would happen if a “pagan” said to you “why do you not love like the other Christians” rather than saying “I don’t go to church because you drink and Christians aren’t supposed to”

Actually, I work with several “pagans” that make it a point to notice things exactly like this. They drink, but Christians are not supposed to in their minds. I’m not defending them, I’m just saying that’s how they think. Consequently, they–on numerous occasions–have made comments like: “that’s why I don’t go to church, etc.” Believe it or not, some are watching and they do make accusations.

thanks for your comments. Two things.

1. Who or when did God determine what was acceptable and unacceptable space to hold church in? Martin Luther often held meetings in German pubs and wineries.

2. “But I wonder how we are really doing in reaching the unsaved by meeting for church in pub at 10am Sunday morning when the “regulars” aren’t even there.”

Do they meet at 10am? If they do.. lame Our church meets in a nightclub (the bars are closed) at 7pm. It seems to attract the same crowd.

I’ve got no problem with a church or ministry who meets in a pub (or other “unacceptable” location).

But if we say we are going to meet in a pub so we can reach the unsaved (and that’s a good thing), but we do it at time when the establishment is not usually open or serving patrons – what have we gained??? It seems for the argument to work, we need to have church in the pub during happy hour. How one does that — I don’t know. But to completely meet that goal, that’s what we would need to do.

Again, no issue with Bob from Evergreen. His blog is in my RSS feeds. I wish him all the best reaching the unsaved in his community. But I wonder how we are really doing in reaching the unsaved by meeting for church in pub at 10am Sunday morning when the “regulars” aren’t even there.

Also, RIck, you crack me up!! Thanks for the great humor! LMBO with the whole “elect” thing…but also very to the point!

It’s not even in the same realm as getting drunk–and that IS a sin.

The guest also justified Luther’s comments about the Jews with the same argument, that he was “a product of his times.” I think Luther was a great man, but even great men screw up big time, which I think Luther did here. No one is perfect, only Christ.