One of the mantras that the watch doggies chant over and over is the idea that the world hasn’t / isn’t changing. They plug their ears and close their eyes, singing “la la la la la” when experts show we are definately living in a postmodern world.  They are doing their best to preserve hymns, pews, and the “us four and no more” way of doing church (and no, I am not against hymns for those of you who will try to argue that).
All that set-up to say check out this video that is pretty eye opening when it comes to the cultural, technological and global shifts that are taking place. Then come back and tell me it’s the same song, second verse.
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15 Comments(+Add)
The question asked at the end is what does it all mean. The answer is nothing unless it changes our hearts.
The challenge is to use technology to reach people without technology changing the message. Not in KJV language alone, but to allow a competitive and intellectual spirit to broaden the message into an appealing carrot while removing the sacrificial calling.
A challenge that is not being met in many quarters…
“the world hasn’t / isn’t changing.”
I don’t say that…
I think most would agree the world is changing, deteriorating, etc.
Where you may be confused, is that many are saying that God doesn’t change, nor his Word. Yet folks like RW would have you believe that God’s Word has indeed changed by the garbage he quotes in his books like PDL, saying God says this or that in his word, then giving a slaughtered “The Message” quoute or even one of his own that is completely different than actual scripture. Or look as his modified gospel he gives in PDL, that has definately changed from what the Bible says as well.
God does not change, nor does His word. Our challenge is to adapt the method to the changing world without changing the message. It is not an easy task, and it requires both diligence and charity/grace – both of which are sorely lacking in the church.
Also, I would disagree that the world is ‘deteriorating’ – if you compare today’s world with the world 500 or 1000 years ago, I would say that some things have changed for the worse, while others have improved. Until He comes, it will neve be perfect – there will be won battles and lost battles and continuous change. I would agree that Christianity in America has taken, in many ways, turns for the worse since the Great Awakening, but when I look to Korea and other areas of the world where revival is occurring, I see the church resuring. It is all a matter of perspective.
This is sort of off-topic, but what is with all the hate for “The Message”? I don’t even think Eugene Peterson calls it a translation per se, but merely a paraphrase. I think it does a very good job for the most part of conveying the spirit of the text. There are some things that come off kind of cheesy, but overall, I like it.
I agree with Ken in that I have never seen him say the world is not changing.
I think it would be more accurate to say that the neofundamentalist watchbloggers think that church should not change. And as we’ve seen so many times they often confuse changing the methods with changing the message.
Neil
[blockquote]…Yet folks like RW would have you believe that God’s Word has indeed changed by the garbage he quotes in his books like PDL, saying God says this or that in his word, then giving a slaughtered “The Message†quoute or even one of his own that is completely different than actual scripture. Or look as his modified gospel he gives in PDL, that has definately changed from what the Bible says as well…[/blockquote]
[insert beating-a-dead-horse icon]
I disagree Ken. You have said several times that postmodernism is nothing new, as if it isn’t happening.
Let them with eyes see, those with ears hear. Anyone who can not see the error of the PD books or The Message, by simply holding them up to the light of Truth, comparing them by having the Word of God in one hand, and the man centered books in the other, have chosen to see what they want to.
[insert ostrich burying head in sand icon]
touché on the ostrich… though I would say it is the attackers who usually see what they want to see – even if they have to manipulate the quotes to make it fit…
…You kids and your durn Message bibles, get off my lawn!
Seriously, Eugene Peterson has more knowledge of the Scripture in his pinky toe than most of critics combined. He never intended it to replace any of the other translations, but he just wanted to present a more readable version of the Scriptures. Perhaps we should all be reading from the Latin Vulgate still.
Kent,
Which Bible version do you use? The KJV states Exodus 20:13 as “Thou shall not kill†The NASB is “You shall not murder.†Which one do you hold up to the Message that has Ex. 20:13 as “No murder†to see if the Message is right?
There are Christians who say that if you are not reading the KJV, you are not really reading Scripture. Which Bible versions are acceptable according to you?
Darren,
I can agree with you that those who preach KJV are clearly misinformed, however, The Message should be used for what it is. A paraphrase, it should not be considered a Bible version. In reading the PDL I cringed everytime read Warren stating “The Bible says” then quote Petersons thoughts on what he thinks the Bible is saying.
I have some real questions about why Peterson replaced some of his phrases like replacing As above, so below in the Lord’s Prayer where is states On earth as it is in Heaven in most other real translations. The phrase As above , so below has been used in the occult for a very long time. I don’t know Peterson’s heart but this seems odd to me, look it up. There are many other area’s in The Massage where the meaning of a sripture is completely changed, that is my concern and a reason why I stay away from it. Currently, I read the ESV, I bought the ESV reformation study Bible and Max MCleans Listeners Bible(very good BTW) in ESV. I know I am not Kent but I just wanted to add that.
BTW the video was very eye opening, although i think they were overstating the fact that a freshman learning something would be useless by the time he was a sophomore. Technologies build on each other, its not like they scrap every 2 years…..
Jeff,
I concur and I do see the Message as more of commentary. I use the NASB due to its very literal nature because I have no in depth knowledge of the original languages.
The question posed to Kent was really for everyone. If someone says the Message is not Scripture, I understand what they are saying, but in additon to the KJV only crowd, I have heard people say the same for the TNIV, the Amplified, the International Children’s Version.
The Word of God is perfect, but many tranlsations are not and I agree with Kent that we should hold up secular books to the Word of God but I am afraid we would have a difficult time concluding which translations meet that definition. If I were king for a day had to pick one for everyone (new Christians, old Christians, children, etc.), it would be the ESV.
Only the Greek and Hebrew were plenary, all others are only as effective as the accuracy of their translation. Most of the translation or paraphrase discussion is moot because 95% of evangelical pew dwellers do not read any.
We should print the Bible on a newspaper and have it delivered to the homes of Christians, it might get a glance then.