Jill Martin Rische, a substitute for Ingrid at Slice while she is away, is the eldest daughter of Walter Martin. She parts ways with Silva in this statement about the Catholic Church (and agrees with her father):
“I take the same position my father did on Catholicism. I strongly disagree with some of their doctrines, but they have the right Jesus, the right Trinity, the right God and Father of us all. There are believers within the Catholic Church and they are our brothers and sisters in Christ. This is what my father taught and after much thought and prayer, this is what Kevin and I believe.”
Go up the comments page and you have Silva’s thoughts on Catholicism:
“Apostate Roman Catholicism is actually bigger than a cult. As Dr. John MacArthur rightly says it is another religion entirely. So the RCC is not a cult but should be classified with false world religious systems such as Islam.”
I totally agree is Rische on this point. I have serious issues with Catholic doctrine but I believe there are active, strong, growing, regenerate Christians within this denomination. And I would agree with Silva in that there aren’t Christians within Islam.
What do you think?
![Image of The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Jl6fhDLxL._SL75_.jpg "The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith")
55 Comments(+Add)
I think we will be surprised one day when realize who is in heaven and who is not. I know a lot of Catholics. Some of them I doubt will spend eternity with God others I believe they will. Catholics are no different than any other denomination out there; it does not matter who you associate with so much as it does what you choose to do with the person of Jesus Christ.
I also believe there can be believers in the Catholic Church. The main issue in Jill’s statement that could be debated on two levels, from my point of view, is this:
“I strongly disagree with some of their doctrines, but they have the right Jesus, the right Trinity, the right God and Father of us all.”
1)I would ask how any unbeliever, Catholic or otherwise, can have “the right Jesus, the right Trinity, the right God and Father of us all.”
In the case of an unconverted Catholic following Catholic doctrine I would say that they either haven’t come to understand the “right Jesus etc” or the “right” they know they haven’t accepted.
2)Looking at it in a broader way I would say that the Jesus and Father that the Catholic Church as a whole presents is out of character with the Jesus and Father of Scripture. The Jesus of the Catholic church is not powerful enough to be THE mediator between God and man. The Father who would allow a works-based theology and require a human mediator is also not the Father of Scripture.
The question is about the Catholic Church, not Catholics. There are some Catholics that are saved, but they did not get saved by believing their infant baptism plus their good works saved them. the assumption that the RCC is “no different than any other denomination out there” is doctrinally blind view.
Matt – if a denomination teaches a salvation by faith plus works is it Christian, because it surely is not Biblical? The RCC church teaches that sins can be forgiven even after death by the good works of the living. Now, tell me that isn’t blasphemy that negates the unique sacrifice of the Only Sinbearer, th Lord Jesus Christ. Or are you allowed to make up anything you want as long as you use the name of Jesus?
The answer to the question is the Catholic Church is a false replica of a Christian Church. They teach salvation by works which Paul tell us “Christ has profited you nothing”. And they are comparitively better today than they were centuries ago, but still a false “church”.
The rcc is more than a cult, it is a culture; and like mormonism propogates itself by encouraging mass procreation.You are born into it and literally brainwashed from birth. God only knows what those who convert to it are thinking.
It is the Roman empire in religious garb. Study the history of Rome and its union with an already derailing christianity. Who would call a “religion” which tells you to call bishops “your excellency” and the pope (vicar of Christ) “your holiness”, christian?
Their un-scriptural errors are too numerous to mention here.
As a former roman catholic, I spent all my education in catholic schools, was an altar boy, etc. etc. etc.
If there are any truly regenerate romanists they either have left, or will soon leave when the light truly turns on.
Dr. Walter Martin on what he called the apostate Church of Rome:
We are not descendants of this papacy, nor do we wish to be… We [who are Christian] reject a corrupt church; a backslidden church; an apostate church… is the kind of leadership we do not wish to follow, and we [need] to discourage others from following [the Roman Catholic Church]…
the theology remains unchanged. The statement “we never change†– is true. They never change on the basics. They will change on the peripherals, [but] never on the centrality, the authority of the papacy… It is the same Roman Catholic Church as at the Council of Trent, only carefully adapted to American Protestant culture.
She also posted some powerful words which Ken should pay more attention to.
Wow, did Ingrid take time to get to know this woman before letting her substitute?
Hey Ken, why don’t you start calling Jill Martin Rische your trade mark names? So she disagrees with you not just on the Catholic Church, but what Water Martin believed.
She must be what…Satanic? Ecumenical deceit? Emergent? Come on, Ken. You pat yourself on the back for “courage” all the time, so take on the daughter of the late Walter Martin.
Speaking of which, can anyone explain in plain English what Ken means by the Ecumenical Church of Deceit? I did a google search thinking it was a new jargon term in fundamentalism, but he is the only one who uses it.
Ken, if you are trying to coin a new term, you ought to wait until it has been popularized (meaning used by more than you) before you start using it without explanation.
David C.,
C’mon, Ken. Show your “courage.”
Let Jill Martin Rische know how apostate she is.
I believe what Ms. Rische said misrepresented what Dr. Martin taught. I hope it did. I never thought I’d live to see the day that Slice would extend the olive branch to the RCC. I guess compromise knows no theological boundaries.
“they have the right Jesus, the right Trinity, the right God and Father of us all.” Look, Erica, Slice agrees with you, you might want to alter your view (just kidding Joe). Wow, what a colossal compromise, it rivals anything Bell has said. It is what I have always contended, people will hold friendships above convictions and the watchmen will temper their castigations when it involves one of their own.
There is a word for that…I’ll think of it in a minute.
By the way, I personally know Jill and we have spoken on this issue. Perhaps she and I might disagree in how we may express everything to do with apostate Roman Catholicism but follow along with the central thesis.
Jill said: “I take the same position my father did on Catholicism.”
Her dad Dr. Martin said: “We [who are Christian] reject a corrupt church; a backslidden church; an apostate church…”
Jill said: “I strongly disagree with some of their doctrines,…”
As did her dad, most particularly their false view of justification and false gospel of Christ plus baptism, the sacraments and works. This alone makes the Church of Rome apostate. The rest is a semantic jungle. If you have the wrong Gospel it matters not where else you might be right, if you profess to be Christian you are apostate.
Then Jill said: “There are believers within the Catholic Church and they are our brothers and sisters in Christ. This is what my father taught…” She is right. There are; Dr. Martin correctly taught this, as do I. Sorry about that chief, no disagreement on the essential issues here.
For that matter I’ve even mentioned that I believe there are some Arminians who are saved, and yes, even some Southern Baptists as well.
peace…
And behold, Ken provides an appropriate comment to substantively support my previous contention. Sometimes you get support from unwilling participants.
And thank you, Ken, for believing that some Arminians are saved. We are grateful.
Ah Ken, what will you do if you don’t have the SBC to slam anymore. You and I should start a page
just slamming the stuff that goes on in that organizationwarning folks of the dangers of Slowing Becoming Can’t do it. It would be fun. But I do have good friends there, and while I hold no love for the organization I do love them. Sad isn’t that we the followers of Christ spend so much time castigating each other. Myself included.I would ask anyone who has an interest in seeing the salvation of those caught up in their Roman Catholic system to engage the Roman Catholic in a discussion wrapped around this simple question, one which left my devout Roman Catholic brother and father speechless and overwhelmingly challenged to the point of long minutes of silence as they racked their brain trying to verbalize an answer:
What is the gospel?
You see very few can verbalize even the simplest sufficient gospel proclamation. I asked my brother once in what he was putting his trust for eternal life and his response was “The Virgin Mother and the Sacraments.” These are men whose lives are devoted to their religion, good works and fruitful selfless service of others, but I must ask this, how can one be saved by a gospel they do not even have the most basic understanding of?
Simple thoughts on a profoundly important topic,
Bill
Bill, That is a great approach. Sadly, the inability to articulate the gospel is not something that is limited to someone of the catholic persuasion.
Rick,
I would hope your eyes see better than you what you just expressed in what you wrote. Thankfully I take my orders from Christ and not you.
By the way as far as the apostate Roman Catholic Church, it matters not one whit what the average Roman Catholic believes. All that matters is what the Church of Rome itself is teaching. I’ve already more than shown from their own sources the RCC is apostate concerning justification and preach another gospel.
Ken’s earlier comment reveled alot to me. Had Rob Bell made this statement he would have missives, articles, press conferences over the issue here. I am sure that Rob Bell would also “strongly disagree with some of their doctrines.” But, Ken picks and chooses who he is friends with and who he hates. One can do no good and the other he turns a blind eye to.
If “there are believers within the Catholic Church and they are our brothers and sisters in Christ”, then Ken is going to have alot of explaining to do when he gets to heaven. It should be interesting to see God ask why Ken spent his life lambasting those brothers and sisters on a global level.
Lastly, cynicism, especially towards your own kind, shows incredible cowardliness (even if it is done publicly). From what I have heard (including correspondence with his SBC association), he does little to help solve the problem. And, open letters on a blog is not solving the problem.
Nathan,
You are so right. There is much to be loved about in the SBC. Truly. As long as the church consists of people there will be mistakes and issues.
A liitle information about the Roman Catholic Church:
http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2007/06/roman-catholic-church-b-efore-we-begin.html
Bill,
Here is the one difference between me and them. I am willing now the older I get to say “I could be wrong!” The other difference is I believe the church should be about sharing God’s love with the world so that others may see Him through us. I am not interested in caring for my little click of people only. I believe in fellowship and worship and I practice these things with other believers. I believe it goes beyond this to going into the world and loving and helping others so they might see Christ.
I use to work with some people who lived their lives however they wished to Monday through Friday and than went to confession and everything was erased. I always felt bad from them, they were missing it! However, I have a neighbor who is Roman Catholic and his wife is Methodist. He can tell you what it truly means to have a relationship with Jesus Christ yet he is Catholic. Sometimes I wonder if people stay with the Catholic church because they are comfortable there even though they know the truth?
Rick,
You are funny! I will give you that. I am telling you, I know you all don’t believe me, but I am somewhere in the middle. My biggest problem with Ken, Ingrid and all their followers is their pride, the arrogance in which they handle things, and their lack of research. I probably agree with most of the doctrines they hold strongly too. Really it is funny to me, as much as everyone wants to go on and on and on …………..about Bell they believe very close to what he does, he just uses different ways to get his point across. For instance, I like hymns, not all of them.(It puts me to sleep listening to them played on piano, but that is my own personal thing:-) We sing hymns in church every Sunday. I believe in missionaries, I know Ingrid and Ken does as well. Only we believe every follower of Christ is a missionary. God told us all to go into the world and preach the gospel! I believe in Baptism by Imersion. I believe in the virgin birth of Christ. I am a dispensanlist, I believe in the Trinity(although interesting enought that is a man made term, the Trinity is not in the bible.) I believe the only way into a relationship with Christ is through what He did on the cross. However, I do not believe you pray this magic bullet prayer you continue living your life the way you want and you are saved. The power of the cross should bring you to repentance and change your life! Those are things I know I believe. I believe there is a literal Hell and Heaven and I believe in the ressurection of Christ. What I am not sure of is wether or not tongues and visions are for today.(I am still working through this one.) I am not sure if the end times will really happen the way I have been taught they will my whole life. Another words I am not sure I am really pre-Trib. I was always taught that you did not have to be Baptised to be saved. There are a few verses I have been struggling with lately that seem to imply that somone’s baptism lead to thier salvation.
Anyway, Rick, I know this is off topic but really this is just for you, everyone else can ignore me and stay on topic.
Erica – I can identify with your observation. The older I get, the more willing I am to say “You could be wrong!”.
Your friend, Rick
Nathan: “If ‘there are believers within the Catholic Church and they are our brothers and sisters in Christ’, then Ken is going to have alot of explaining to do when he gets to heaven. It should be interesting to see God ask why Ken spent his life lambasting those brothers and sisters on a global level.”
Ah don’t you ever get tired of misunderstanding? No, Ken doesn’t have any explaining to do. It’s simple. There are people who come to Jesus in spite of a lot of false religious teachings which are twisted from the Bible i.e. Mormonism, Romanism, Jehovah’s Witnesses etc.
The idea Nathan is to make them aware of the bad system they were in. And as we do genuine believers will hear the Voice of the Great Shepherd to obey 2 Corinthians 6:14 and then come out of that system. Jill and I are agreed yet again.
Yer a riot, Rick!!! My sides hurt!! Keep it up, brother!
Just one question, Erica. I’m not trying to cause any rifts or be contentious by asking this. Where is the line drawn between “maybe I’m wrong” and contending for the faith? It just seems to me that the line is blurred here often. When we compare the Catholic doctrine with scripture it certainly doesn’t meet the standards that Paul in his letters made quite clear.
As for your neighbor, I would have a tendency to try and pin him down on exactly what he means by “having a relationship with Christ.” Many catch phrases and meanings can be twisted. Not saying that is the case here but, I will say that a Mormon, as Ken has said, will say the same thing. And also add that there are some methodist factions that are so liberal that some look more like unitarians!
And as others here I’m not impugning those Catholics that have saving grace in Christ(I know quite a few, my wife the most important one to me as she came out of the Catholic church) but I’m speaking of Catholic dogma. I don’t see how it can be called anything else. If I see someone standing in the street and they are about to get hit by a truck, I’ll do and say whatever I need to get them out of the street!
The problem Ken is that you don’t “make them aware of the bad system they were in”. You call them names and make fun of them.
Jill: “they (Catholics) have the right Jesus, the right Trinity, the right God and Father of us all”
Silva: “The Church Of Rome and Islam Worship the Same God”
Silva’s God = Catholics’ God according to Jill
Catholics’ God = Osama bin Ladin’s God, according to Silva
Therefore, Silva and Al Queda worship the same God.
David I get the joke but in reality there is only one God and anyone who is worshipping another is worshipping a non-entity and is still in bondage to the god of this world.
This is what you want to believe nathan: “The problem Ken is that you don’t ‘make them aware of the bad system they were in’. You call them names and make fun of them.” And wonder of wonders…thus you see it…
David C.,
It’s not what i want to believe. I would be incredibly surprised if a catholic stumbled across your site and found sound reason to repent. Offense would be the more realistic reaction.
Scotty,
I don’t mind being asked questions:-) I have huge problems with the Roman Catholic church. I just believe that some of them might be saved. It is all in what you do with the person of Jesus Christ. I John is pretty clear on what a true follow of Christ will look like. I say test the fruit.
Where do I draw the line? My best answer is you go to God and ask him. Here is what I know from my own life; so much of what I was taught growing up I believed without doing much research. Now their are things I question. Here is a silly one for you. I was taught that you give God your best when you show up at church. We always wore our best clothes. My dad wore a suite and us women wore dresses. Realistically I think God wants us to be modest but he wants us to show up. He is more concerned with our “heart condition” than He is about how spiritual we look. I was always taught that Pentecostals where on their way to hell because they put to much emphasis on the Holy Spirit. They were Cult. I now believe it was a shame I was ever taught that way! I believe if you really what answers you should go to God and listen!
Erica said, “I was always taught that Pentecostals where on their way to hell because they put to much emphasis on the Holy Spirit.”
Nah, we just foam at the mouth and roll around alot!! (grinning).
“I believe if you really what answers you should go to God and listen!”
And where are his answers?(trying my best to sound like that frumpy old teacher you had). His tested word, Scripture, God talking to us. We draw all of our comparisons from Scipture. Cause there are many that are producing EXCELLENT fruits but, they are doomed….I’ve been taught the most important fruit we produce is in how we handle the Word of God.
Nathan, I agree we must show grace and wisdom in witnessing to Catholics, but to be fair Ken’s site is not evangelistic.
Scotty,
I think your point has to back up a second. What does it mean to “contend for the faith?” What I mean is what exactly does it mean when one contends for the faith? Do we have to contend on issues like women in ministry, election/free will, or for that matter whether or not God has faith in His followers? Can you contend for the faith and still say I could be wrong. What is lost when we say I could be wrong? For instance, If I say I believe that “only Christians should take communion but I could be wrong” have I lost something. I believe in Creation, do I lose some of my faith if I say, “I might be wrong.”?
You see, I think too much of contending for the faith is simply trying to prove “I’m right.”
As for your last question to Erica. I believe God talks to us. I also believe that He will not contradict Scripture when He does. I could be wrong on both accounts but I doubt it.
The problem is that as time continues to pass the church becomes less and less sure about anything. And that is the theme of the emergent church movement. No creeds, no moorings, and an open dialogue to look afresh at almost any doctrine.
While Joe may have his list of non-negotiables, they may be different than others. And in that everyone’s opinion is valid which diminishes the clearity of the Scriptures. Some emergent leaders (MacLaren, etc.) openly confess the Scriptures teach with a large brush with little specifics.
By the way, Joe, an unbeliever should not take communion for fear of bringing judgment upon himself and anywho would encoursge it. Women in the ministry, yes, in leadership, no. And I can fellowship with those who would disagree with that, so, down boy!
Henry, I’m hoping the “down boy” thing was a joke, b/c I honestly didn’t mean to come across any way other than conversational. Your second to last statement is most agreeable. There are many who would not only refuse to fellowship with me because I believe something like women can be in leadership but they would also chose to not fellowship with you b/c you just said you could fellowship with me.
Joe said. “What I mean is what exactly does it mean when one contends for the faith? ”
Jud 1:3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
I certainly can’t say it any better than what is being said in the WHOLE of Jude.
Apart from that I agree with what Rick said rather than write another three paragraphs. Just shear laziness!:-)
We are all former children of Eden who were escorted out and were allowed back through the wooden portal. The down boy thing was of course a joke. I feel strongly that women should not be in leadership because I take the Scriptures without cultural context in that area. How can a woman be submissive to her husband while being his ecclesiastical authority?
But there is much hypocrisy on the conservative side. People like Ingrid and others speak with authority and rebuke about any ordained minister they so choose. They hide behind the specious argument that they are not in an official ecclesiastical position.
Even a child can see through that. In the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king. I guess the issue centers on the Scriptures themselves, are they literally authoritative with the symbolic and metaphorical sections representing literal truths?
Scotty, no offense but that doesn’t answer my question. What does it mean to contend for the faith? Based on your statement to Erica you are Charismatic. Does Jude mean that you should be contending for the Spiritual Gifts as defined by the Charismatic movement. I grew up Baptist, went to a Baptist Bible College and am ordained SBC, does Jude mean that I should be “contending” for the Baptists distinctives?
You see, I think that Jude had something completely different in mind when he said we should be contending for the faith.
Henry, I’m honestly not trying to generate a women in leadership debate. I was just pointing out how people like to find reasons to not fellowship wiht people. Let’s change gears from the women thing to another fun hot button. I like to cook with Red Wine. (I even drink some once in a while) there are those who would not only damn my soul to excommunication but your as well, if you chose to “fellowship” with such a sinner.
Jude obviously meant contend for the faith that Jesus is the only Savior and invites all to believe on Him as the only way for salvation. All the rest was not even an issue back then.
Some like me believe that some of the periphery issues continue to get closer to the core gospel. Over the centuries denominations have sprung up that teach a different way of salvation. One of the main ones is the Roman Catholic Church, which some want to classify as a true Christ church.
You see, if we include churches that teach a salvation by works we are not contending for the faith. Forget about the SBC or other things, the gospel must be contended for.
Joe, it is not a sin however in our alcohol obsessed culture it may be better to abstain. Let’s see, I don’t drink, or go to the theatre, or curse, or smoke, but I like Notre Dame. And to avoid those things I mentioned but you are mean and prideful, you have missed the weightier aspects of Christlikeness.
My wife and I could fellowship with you guys, but we probably would attend different fellowships. Such is today’s Christian genre.
Henry, I’m not sure I understand the “weightier aspects of Christlikeness” statement but Ok…
Actually Henry, that quote really cracks me up!
I may have a severe problem but at least I don’t cheer for Notre Dame!
Smile 
Scotty,
You brng up Jude 1:3 The English word Contend there is the Greek word for epagognizomai. The best translation would be fighting or vigorous contact. Think of it like to wrestlers going at it!If you look at the context of the book of Jude it was written during a a rough time. Most likely while the apostles were still around. Their were a lot of false teachers during this time. If you look at the rest of the chapter, it seems by all the examples that Jude is refering to a battle between God and Satan. Look at all the examples he gives. They are refering to a spiritual war. Look at verse 16 it is pretty obvious what people were like during the time of the Apostles. I think verse 16 is no different than the examples from the OT that he gives before that. I think we are in a spiritual war. We should fight for the truth being Christ and we he did for us on the cross.
I am not sure what you meant by contending for the faith! I don’t think that means that we are all suppose to sit back and fight for they way things use to be. There is an obvious war going on between doing what is right and what is wrong. The bible is pretty clear on what is sin and what is not.
Here is another hot button, I could be wrong, I believe divorce is sin, with only a few biblical exeptions which never leaves room for one to get re-married, unless your spouse dies. However I know people who take the one exceptional clause in scpripture(maritial unfaithfulness) and say it is than ok to get divorced. The Apostle Paul, he talks about how we are better off not to be married. Some people translate that they should not get married so they could better serve the Lord. Shoud I not be married? I think Paul was married. Some say he was not. Is this stuff really worth contending in our faith about? Does it matter who is right or wrong? I think Jude was on to bigger things like Satan. He wants to win our hearts. He wants us to turn our back on God. We are at war. We need to contend with the faith!
Rick,
“And to avoid those things I mentioned but you are mean and prideful, you have missed the weightier aspects of Christlikeness.”
This statement seems pretty harsh. Why would you say Joe is mean and prideful? Please explain what the weightier aspects of Christlikeness is? I would love to hear some examples.
One more thing, you have the right to your opinion. I live with him, I have for almost nine years. Joe is far from being prideful! He is actually one of the most humble men I have ever met! As far as him being harsh, that is a compliment! I am glad you see him as harsh. Seriously, that means he is being like Christ! Christ was harsh all over the NT and the OT when dealing with people who found it fit to put God in a box. The job text people discussed is a perfect example of that.I am glad he defends Christ and fights against spiritual rubish. Thank for the nice compliment about my husband!Blessings to you Rick!
“I am glad you see him as harsh. Seriously, that means he is being like Christ!”
Guess we don’t need any more complaining here about me then do we…
Joe – I was speaking in the abstract, certainly not refering to you. I meant you can avoid things but if you are mean and unloving, you are not like Christ. I did not make myself clear.
Joe said, “Scotty, no offense but that doesn’t answer my question. What does it mean to contend for the faith?”
As usual, Rick stole my thunder!! Not complaining Rick! The origins of this post were about the Catholic church and that’s what I am addressing here. The other issues you bring up are just that and have nothing to do with the original post of this thread. I’m not trying to be a smart aleck but, for now let’s stick with one issue at a time. I don’t know how I can make it any plainer that what is said in Jude.
Rick said, “You see, if we include churches that teach a salvation by works we are not contending for the faith. Forget about the SBC or other things, the gospel must be contended for.”
BINGO!!
Joe said, “Based on your statement to Erica you are Charismatic.”
No, I am not, I’m Pentecostal. most of us Pentecostals do not want to be confused with what the Charismatic are doing and some of the heresies that are being put forth by a LARGE number of Charismatics. Unfortunately a lot of the Pentecostals are being sucked into to this crap that is called Charismatic.
That makes sense Henry.
Scotty, Thanks for the clarification.
Have a good father’s day one and all
And by the way, one more wise crack about Notre Dame and I will show you true meaness!! (satire and humor – I am only kidding, really not refering to…you get the picture) I have met people who would not dream of going to the theatre but are harsh and mean. They have missed what it truly means to be like Christ.
OK, Erica all those things you said about your husband based on what you thgought I said, you can take back. Humble and all that stuff, save it for later. Besides Joe sometimes overreacting in defense of you and the “coward” thing, I find him engaging and pleasant. And that is even though he wrote an entire post about me!
And Christ was rarely harsh, so those who use that as a cloak are innacurate.
Erica said, “I am not sure what you meant by contending for the faith! I don’t think that means that we are all suppose to sit back and fight for they way things use to be.”
I think my earlier post to Joe covers what I mean. I think that maybe you’re confusing that “faith” we are to contend for with side issues. I don’t know how to make contending for the faith any clearer than I have already.
I enjoy reading you all here but for a while my browsing will be spotty at best. Going to be spoiling some grand kids rotten for a while…just don’t want ya’ll to think my silence is something else.
Sorry Rick really! I thought you all of a sudden went from being really nice and us having a great conversation to you being mean! I could not understand why the conversation went so sour:-( Plus I am like mommy bear! you know you can sayanything you want about me but don’t go after my husband or mamma bear comes out! Sorry about that.
Scotty – Grand kids, I love them. Fun, fun, fun, and then go home. Praise the Lord!!!