Ingrid goes after XXXchurch yet again. Her main beef is that pastors should never mention porn from the pulpit.What about the woman who is married to a non Christian husband. Doesn’t he need to hear this? What if he has an addiction? What if their children discover daddy’s secret stash, shouldn’t they know it’s a sin?I’ve heard plenty of fundamentalists go after gays and abortionists, why are they afraid to address porn?
Whatever you think about the XXXchurch guys, porn is a sin and needs to be addressed, from the pulpit and in men’s groups. Anyone can be addicted to anything, even Christians. I’ve seen more than a few fundamentalists with food addictions (which is a form of idolatry). Sin is sin, let’s not start saying that it’s ok to be gluttonous and overweight.
By the way, one of the fastest growing trends is women addicted to porn. This effects all genders and ages.
I’m not interested in comments on XXXchurch or it’s antics. Just the issue of addiction and preaching from the pulpit.
![Image of The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Jl6fhDLxL._SL75_.jpg "The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith")
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Yeap, this is the same Ingrid who posted the graphic photo of a aborted fetus over and over and over and over while ranting against Warren inviting Obama to speak on AIDS.
Perhaps Ingrid should share a list of which sin is o.k. to address from the pulpit. Abortion, alcoholism, adultery, etc. are unpleasant and are not easy to explain to my four children sitting there next to me, but what sin is pleasant? For someone who complains so much about pastors not talking about sin from the pulpit, why is she complaining about a pastor confronting a very unmanpleasing topic?
Darren,
It is the nature of the pharisee to find fault in others.
Darren,
I think you made a great point… if our children hear other adults saying that porn is bad, then it will be reinforced in them that it IS!
We spend so much time covering things like this while there are 1000’s of pastor’s who are hooked on porn. Hiding our heads in the sand will not make it go away…
I guess I look at the bible saying we must face who and what we are… and when someone states we should not even talk about it… it makes me wonder if they have ever really come to the end of themselves and repented. I wonder if they are still trying to earn God’s approval… it seems like that is what this focus on “SELF” righteousness is all about. We need to be Christ focused… on HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS and bearing HIS FRUIT… our own leads only to death… no matter how well we hide it.
Blessings.
iggy
“It is the nature of the pharisee to find fault in others.”
All too easy to do here at crn.(bad)info.
Of course your finding fault with Ingrid is not pharisaical.
The real issue is; are these trendy churches really helping, or just attracting attention to themselves?
I’m not sure how preaching against porn as a sin makes it “trendy”. Funny, the smallest church I ever went to recently preached against homosexuality. It was hardly trendy. Most of the people wore homemade clothes and were food idolaters …errr…I mean fat.
“a pastor confronting a very unmanpleasing topic.” I hope you’re not referring to Craig Gross. No one says the topic shouldn’t be addressed, the issue is who is addressing it and how they approach it.
Get the issues straight guys. And my brother Stanley hits the issue at the core: “the real issue is; are these trendy churches really helping, or just attracting attention to themselves?” They are one man bands with lead pastor wannabes drawing disciples after themselves. We’ve already been warned they were coming:
“I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. Acts 20:29-30)
If men and women are turning from porn and turning to Christ, then yes, they are helping.
Somehow that made me think of you Ken. What was Brendt’s line about a Pot being on line 1 for a Kettle? My wordsmith skills aside.
But the problem Matt is that in the man-exalting new evangelical “love shack” sadly they are turning to “a” Christ.
Joe,
You say “the kettle” but I say “the Bell.”
Ken, of all your banter that rates an “F.” That was awful. I’m actually disappointed. You are normally so much better at being mean, and coy. That one doesn’t even make sense. tsk, tsk.
Hey Ken, How often do I have to tell you? We are not members. We chose to live in covenant community. Also, I don’t mind that you call my post ridiculous and use me to get your Rob Bell hits up, but how about linking to me in there too? That only seems sporting.
Let me think about that Joe…um, nah.
Ken, I am hurt. Pierced through the heart. Truly.
Ken,
You wrote, “No one says the topic shouldn’t be addressed, the issue is who is addressing it and how they approach it.”
Ingrid wrote, “Should pastors address porn? No, not from the pulpit.”
I took that as Ingrid saying that pornography is not an issue suitable for the pulpit and she said it would be better addressed in a men’s class. What about the women and teens dealing with this issue?
I do agree that “how it’s approached” is vital. There are certainly stories in the Old Testament of rape, incest, homosexuality, etc. that are hard to explain to my kids so I have to approach them with much prayer and wisdom. Many may disagree with me, but I do take the side of reading every verse to my kids, no matter the age, and trusting the Lord for the right things to say about it.
It’s one thing to be graphic from the pulpit or to blow up huge testicles at a college campus in order to gain attention. It’s quite another thing to stand up and say, “God knows every link that you click on the internet. Even if your loved ones never find out, God knows.” or “There are some that are struggling with things here, bad movies, what you look at on the internet, etc.” This can be addressed without having to be graphic.
Ingrid is a great example of dumbing down what is taught in the church in the name of the children. Sometimes adults have to talk about adult subjects, even in church. She claims to believe the Bible is the word of God yet vast swaths of it couldn’t actually be taught because its too explicit for a 4 year old. Lots of things are too explicit for 4 year olds yet ought to be taught and preached by churches.
clearly,
it depends…
are you trying to reach those truly addicted who would not come a church if you did invite them… but would come to see Willy the Wiener and hear a message of God’s love.
I may not agree with all the tactics some use… but the point was that Ingrid was stating we should not even talk about it in the pulpit…
I think that is the issue. Who are we trying to reach? I once tried to talk to a guy deep in the porn lifestyle as a “Fundy” and was laughed at and mocked and could not hear me for nothing… meanwhile xxxchurch.com has testimonies of people leaving the porn industry for Jesus… Isn’t if great that we have open debates with big name porn-stars over the dangers and evil of porn? I think God is breaking into that industry and will have people coming out of it in a mighty way.
It seems to come down to outward appearances… or rather how good WE look or sound… when we need to focus on God’s fruit and not our own self righteous fruit.
I mean Jesus would never have been caught with porn-stars of his day… like prostitutes or others who are that sick would He? I mean Jesus just died for the well and not the sick didn’t He?
blessings,
iggy
Tim,
One of the most striking and horrific and beautiful passages is Ezekiel 16 which God states how sick His bride is… then in the last sentence states HE will make atonement for her.
We have a g rated white-washed version of Christianity in America… what if we really did teach the Bible for what it says… and did not censor it as Ingrid does?
Blessings,
iggy
Iggy,
What happens is idiotic prudes like Ingrid will complain. Somehow she and Ken have managed to out-holy Jesus. Can you imagine how scandalized the two of them would be when Hosea married a whore? I once read a commentator doing backfips to prove that Rahab was an innkeeper and not a whore because Jesus couldn’t possibly have been related to a whore. Somehow I think Ken and INgrid would be cheerleading such an effort.
Ah Tim, you wound me so.
Ken,
I read what you write about pastors who go to movies. What wouhttp://christianresearchnetwork.info/2007/06/25/porn-in-the-pews/
CRN.Info and Analysis » Porn in the Pewsld you have written about a prophet who marries a whore?
I suppose when the “gospel” you preach involves working your way into the kingdom you have to be holier than God. Good luck with that.
I pray someday you’re able to rest in the grace God has given through Jesus Christ. Until then it doesn’t matter how much you dump on Christians, it doesn’t make you worthy of God.
I read what you write about pastors who go to movies. What would you have written about a prophet who marries a whore?
I suppose when the “gospel†you preach involves working your way into the kingdom you have to be holier than God. Good luck with that.
I pray someday you’re able to rest in the grace God has given through Jesus Christ. Until then it doesn’t matter how much you dump on Christians, it doesn’t make you worthy of God.
First of all Ingrid has no business telling preachers what to preach. Now with her out of the focus, OF COURSE preachers should preach against pornography from the pulpit. They should make sin “exceedingly sinful” so as to warn of not only the earthly consequences, but how the Lord of Glory feels about it.
The xxx church is over focused and from what I can tell they are way too theatrical. Unbalanced.
How about the
Divorce church.
Homosexual church.
Adultery church.
Drug church.
Lying church.
Greed church.
No, the church should be the Scriptural church. That covers it all including pornography. How sinful is man? You never see a group of dogs pull up a chair to watch other dogs go at it, but man? He is a creative rebel at heart until he receives a new one. Praise Him!!
Henry (Rick),
I’d agree if xxx church were simply a community of believers worshipping together, but its simply a couple of pastors the formed this particular ministry to focus on this problem across many churches.
If you read the latest comment on that SOL post, you’ll see the fruits of Ingrid’s sensationalised “Porn in the pulpit” headline. The commenter “Carol A” seems to have read Ingrid’s post to mean that porn is actually being presented and promoted in churches. She doesn’t seem to understand that xxx-church is actually an anti-porn ministry. To be fair, with a name like xxx-church and a headline like Ingrid’s, you can understand the confusion.
ian,
I’m actually surprised that Ingrid let your comment through over there. I think I had one go through before I was perma-banned.
That lady’s comment reminds me of a story my dad told me about a church where he used to pastor. One woman was talking to another about a situation on the news having to do with guerilla fighters. The woman replied, in all honesty, “I can’t believe they’re actually using gorillas to fight our boys over there.”
I finally broke down and read Ingrid’s post…. and what did I find…
exactly what i was saying they teach and believe… and Ken Silva backs this!!!!
“I would say that based on Holy Scripture, you’re no Christian if you have X-rated addictions.”
So salvation is based on works… what they do and do not do… no grace there… just plain works being taught by Ingrid. She then goes on to “prove” this with scripture!!!!
Ingrid has no grasp of the Grace, Mercy and Love of God… she teaches another gospel of works and people support her!
It is not “purity”, “holiness” or anything else but works… we cannot make ourselves purer than Jesus’ blood already has.. we cannot become more holy than God has made us by that same blood… but Ingrid, in that sentence calls this blood not enough and in fact a lie.
Beware false teachers!
iggy
Ingrid is a self righteous judge. Any Christian can have an addiction. A saved homosexual can lapse just like an alcoholic or drug addict. That doesn’t prove anything, the man living with his father’s wife was saved.
What is does show is that the church needs a revival, we are carnal.
Let me preface this by saying I am a lay leader in a megachurch young adults ministry. I was on a social networking site and noticed one of our new attenders posted some photos. I started scrolling through some of his old albums. One of the photos he had posted was pornographic in nature. It was from his college days.
The next time I saw him, I pulled him aside and told him that I had stumbled on this photo. He was instantly embarrassed and apologized. I asked him if he was a Christian and he said at the time the photo was taken he was not and he had forgotten it was up there. He had walked away from Christ for ten years and is now following Him. He recently joined our mens group and I’m excited to see what God will do in his life.
Rick,
“Ingrid is a self righteous judge.’ So now you know her heart and her motives? Maybe you’re the self-righteous judge.
Ken,
It is her words that reveal the self-righteous nature – nothing to do with heart and motives…
Her fruits, mate, her fruits (words).
Ken,
If you agree with her words, then you are also teaching a “works” based gospel…. plain and simple.
Do you think you can make yourself more pure than Jesus already has made you?
Do you think that you can be more holy that God has made you?
So if someone says that one cannot struggle with sin and be a Christian… (which is what an addiction is… struggling!) then the logical conclusion is that that person is saying it is our works that make us saved or not… do you agree with that?
I teach and hold that it is by Grace we are saved… I teach and hold that which is taught in Galatians 5… that this same grace that saved us, sustains us…
Ingrid is teaching a false doctrine… this same doctrine you falsely say I teach… and have condemned me over… saying I am not even saved! Yet, in that post Ingrid actually teaches it and you defend her?
It seems you need more study as to the teachings of scripture my friend.
Now, I think if you are truly discerning you should call her on this in a missive that states she is teaching false doctrine… but you won’t, will you? You will silently let it go by and act as if her false teaching never happened… and that is sinful Ken.
Blessings,
iggy
Iggy – Ingrid holds strictly to salvation by grace through faith. She never has said she believes in salvation by works so let’s be fair.
She holds to a strict and legalistic view of Christian lifestyle, and she communicates her views in a self-righteous, caustic, and sometimes demeaning way.
“It is her words that reveal the self-righteous nature – nothing to do with heart and motives…”
Then remember that the next time I criticize Emergent Church leaders like Rob Bell for their semi-pelagian man-love.
Rick,
How do you interpret this statement?
“I would say that based on Holy Scripture, you’re no Christian if you have X-rated addictions.â€
Then how she used the bible to prove it?
She may have a “statement of faith” that states otherwise… but truly that is what they teach.
I am calling it as I see it… she says she believes one way, then teaches another… at least Rob Bell and others are consistent… Ken also does this but is more subtle about it which is why I laugh so hard when he calls anyone else a semi-pelagian… as he is so far in that woods he can’t see the trees in front of him. The difference is Ken think HE is here to save the world instead of Jesus… ; )
You and I may not agree on things, but I see you as consistent and respectful to others views. You realize that others and your self… (as i do of myself) are not perfect in all our doctrines and never will be. For perfection is in only One Person and that is Jesus Christ.
Blessings,
iggy
Iggy,
I’ve been writing that for a few days now, it does seem in their writings that they add to work of Jesus Christ. Perhaps someone should suggest to Ingrid that she register SliceofGalatia.com.
If I get an extra 9 bucks, I’m taking it! LOL
Just for the logic impaired here at CRN.Info? the Gospel is pretty simple: Salvation is by God’s grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
And the work is where? Ah, there is none.
If only people could get that message from “Christian” “Research” Network and Apprising “Ministries”.
Ken,
You better go and tell Ingrid this as she added works to salvation as she stated a person cannot be struggling with an addiction and be a Christian…
Do you agree with that? that is saying that one must clean themselves up before they can come to Jesus… I also is saying that one cannot struggle with sin and be a Christian… it is a works based theology…
Be Blessed as always,
iggy
Ken,
Your theology and how you work it out are in total conflict and you do not see it…
Again, blessings,
iggy
Tim,
Well, don’t know what to tell ya. So many people who can read English get it.
iggy,
You’ll pardon me if I don’t accept instruction from you because, “Your theology and how you work it out are in total conflict and you do not see it…” May God be merciful to you.
Ken,
God is very merciful to me… that is part of what i am teaching you…LOL!
It seems that you can only receive from someone if YOU agree with them…
Believe it or not I am learning from you… I’ve learned why some attack others. I have learned that I too need to be more careful in how I approach people as I may be too strong in my opinion and need to care more for the other’s opinion.
I learned I need to Love more, and give more Grace and Mercy to those around me because of the abuse of others.
I learned that even quoting scripture from you gets me mocked and often you say I am wrong… (I have literally cut and pasted bible verses in my comments to you and you said they were wrong! LOL!)
I have learned that some that say they believe in the literal reading of scripture do not…
So I have learned a lot from you…
In fact I wrote a post quite a while ago that tells more things I have learned from you and others like you…
Blessings,
iggy