There has been alot of talk at Slice about inappropriate talk for pastor/teachers. Is talk about pooping and peeing on the blood of the reformers really any better than words like “dude” and “hot”? But, I doubt we will see Ingrid calling Ken out for this crude language.
What a raging hypocrite is Protestant pretender Rick Warren, one the most prominent pastors in the Slowly Becoming Catholic–itself the largest allegedly “Protestant” denomination here in pagan America–who urinates on the blood of the Reformers and openly promotes apostate Roman Catholicism as Christian.
This means it begins in spiritual deception and those who follow the Reformation-hating teachings of men like Dan Kimball join him in urinating on the memory of the Reformers who were murdered for their faith.
But where are the voices of outrage at Rick Warren’s own audacity to defecate on the blood of the Reformers?
all of these quotes were taken from apprising.org
112 Comments(+Add)
Ok…this guy makes me ill.
What kind of person does it take to constantly, without remorse, bash someone for no apparant reason.
What really bothers me about Mr. Silva is that he claims to be a pastor.
How can anyone with a functioning brain think that this kind of name calling, judgementalism, and down right hate mongering, possibly be edifying to the body of Christ.
Don’t let them get off with saying that they are doing these things in love…there is no love in the words typed on Apprising or SOL.
How can the world possibly know that they are His disciples?…the answer, according to scripture is…they can’t.
Peace!
Any one else notice Cardinal Kenny is more concerned with the blood of the reformers than the blood of Christ?
LOL! Love it.
Ken and Ingrid must moon-light as speech writers for Al Queda. I love their reading their speeches full of bile and bitterness. But at least they are colorful.
Thank you, Ken.
Funny thing is Arminius was a reformer also… some miss that… Arminianism is part of the reformation also… so to say that some piss/defecate/ etc on the Blood of the reformers and then attack Arminius is rather ignorant and shows a lack of the grasp of the Reformation.
BTW Phil Johnson wrote about how Arminius was one of the Reformers in case someone on that side needs a source… it is in the first article on his “why I am a Calvinist” series. So don’t think it is just me making this up…
Blessings,
iggy
On a further note… Luther never intended to leave the Roman Catholic Church…
Which is also interesting that most of the creeds also came out of the RCC church and people like Ken have attacked others for not holding to the Catholic based Creeds… they demand that one gets down to the bone of their doctrine and creeds and then attack the RCC who through their many councils came up with them.
Truly the scripture teaches us not to “hate” anyone… yet this “hate” based faith is one that attacks Catholics and then anyone who may fellowship with true believers within that denomination.
Blessings,
iggy
Sometimes I can get carried away with creative language and hyperbole, I’m not sure I ever used one of the seven bodily functions. Probably my worst was “Spiritual Pedophiles” which was meant to show that immature believers were being doctrinally molested. I’ve repented of that particular title which was surely meant to illuminate everyone to my literary prowess and not directed by the Spirit.
I understand what Ken is saying, just a little over the top. But the double standard is a valid point.
OK class, let’s go over the acceptible verbs.
1. Vomit
2. Spit
3. Regurgitate
4. Snot
5. Puke
6. Hurl
7. Relieve
8. Loogie
9. Puss
10. Gag
OK, which ones are acceptable to provide colorful meanings. Please give the numbers. Add some if you think of any, but please remember, no sexual references.
Ken doesn’t care. He just thinks he’s being persecuted. In fact, the more we point out his flaws, the more he’s convinced that he’s being persecuted for Christ.
You will never convince him otherwise.
The great equalizer is that someday, we will all stand before God and be judged for what we did, what we said and how we lived our lives. And though Christ’s blood covers a multitude of sins, we will still have to answer. Pastor’s have to answer for not only themselves, but their flock as well.
I was thinking about how the language of some of the more conservative folk on this blog is worse then the emergent/emerging/purpose driven folk. From the heart the mouth speaks.
The language is not hat bothers me here.
It is the intent that I have a problem with.
Peace!
Sorry to make you ill Jimmy. You’d best pray for a stronger stomach friend. And what intent is that have you a problem with there Jimmy? peace!
“The language is not hat bothers me here.
It is the intent that I have a problem with.”
So Ken cannot discern the hearts of Warren, Bell etc, but you can discern Ken’s heart? Ken used the common and acceptable terminology for certain bodily functions. That does not qualify as crude language. As for this post can anyone say flatulence?
Double standard indeed!
Please do not claim the “out of the abundance of the heart” verse.
This includes anything that is spoken i.e. bad teachings, heresies, stupidity ………. We always relate Jesus’ words to our cuddly, humanistic version of what love is.
What are your hearts full of?
Chris P – until you apologize for your profanity and your “the only solution for AIDS is death” comment, you have no authority to speak on the issue of speech.
As for the Arminius/Reformers question.,
Arminianisn needs to drop the “you can lose your salvation” doctrine, and the prevenient grace doctrine. Calvinism needs to get rid of limited atonement.
Jesus died for all, which is what throughly condemnns all who reject Him. John 3:16-21
On the flipside There is no pre-disposition to seek the God of creation. Even the faith to believe must be given to us.
The church is filled with wesleyan/hyper-arminian/holiness teachings. Wesley should have stayed with evangelizing and left the theology part to others.
Luther did not intend to leave the church, at first anyway. Rome booted him so they can only blame themselves for the reformation. Their counter-reformation was too little, too late.
My profanity??? LOL
As for the aids comment, all who have the disease die from it. and/or it’s complications. I was stating a fact. Is there a cure for full blown aids? We will never cure all diseases, as that is not the mission of the Church anyway.
I can say whatever I choose to say. To whom should I apologize..you? Can the pious bilge.
By what authority do you try to silence me?
Matthew 21:23-27
Way to not actually address the substance of the post. I guess Ken and Chris recognize the truth of hte post so all they have left is to whine about one of the comments. Now they can go back to pissing and crapping all over the Christians they don’t like, at least now we know it has less to do with actual ideals, and more to do with knee jerk, mindless hate.
Actually Tim, it’s matt b and iggy who diverted from the subject matter. I simply responded.
What is exhibited here is knee-JERK mindlessness.
Can’t we have just a little fun with this. Ken’s verbs were not sexual, just a little physiologically explicit. Warren and the others are drifting toward ecumenticalism. But come on, what words would be very creative and explicit but still within acceptable bounds?
Forget about Ken for a minute.
“He pukes on Luther!”
“Warren hurls upon Zwingli!”
“Hybels regurgitates on Calvin!”
“Bell vomits on Arminius!”
See guys, have a little creative fun without getting all twisted this time. There will be another post for vitriolic badminton later.
The issue here is not the language itself. I am not offended by it. However, if Slice is going to write a global article on a pastor that says “dude”, then she needs to hold the same standard to her partner in crime.
I wonder what would happen at Slice if I wrote a blog that said “some of the traditions that the fundies hold to as sacred actually defecate on the movement of Jesus Christ.”
Oh, I must have missed your tiny, yet amazing post explaining why its ok for Ken to use language that its not ok for others to use. I’ll go back and find it now.
cool… check out the second sentence.
Chris,
How did I divert the topic… it is about the use of language and that even the crudeness of it that sounds less crude than what is accused of others seems to come from a hated based theology as opposed to the words used from the Likes of Tony Jones or Mark Driscoll who may use cruder words but not out of the hate based which i am mentioning…
In this case it is out of the abundance of the heart… the words themselves may or may not be “crude” to that audience… but it is what drives one to use such words…
So again… how is that diverting the topic?
Try again…
Blessings,
igyg
Chris P…
Be more honest dude, we all know what you really meant when you said “the cure for aids is death”… it was a slam against homosexuality…. yet missing that many did not get aids that way… you in the context certainly implied that since they sinned and will die anyway forget them…
So even if that was not your intent… then an apology should be noted… otherwise stand by your comment like a man. (wrong as you may be).
Again, this is on topic as your choice of words were as crude as if you used profanity… it was that you used “clean” words to harm instead of “dirty” words… and that is more evil than if you just said “God hates fags.”
Be Blessed,
iggy
Which Reformers gave their blood, anyway? Were they crucified for us? Did I miss that class in Church History?
Calvin didn’t shed blood, although he was responsible for a lot of bloodshed.
Maybe it was the Lutherans, who murdered hundreds of Anabaptists for practicing what most Evangelicals now accept as normal — adult baptism. So that would make the Anabapists (Mennonites) the persecuted Reformers, and the Lutherans defecators?
Dan Kimball is pretty conservative theologically — which doctrine does he hold that would put him in the urination category?
It’s not just the juvenile and hate-filled speech in Ken’s comments, it’s the hysterical hyperbole completely devoid of factual content that is equally unacceptable.
“Which Reformers gave their blood, anyway?” Sad. “Were they crucified for us?” Red herring. “Did I miss that class in Church History?” Quite obviously.
One wonders; was the Bible used in the Church History class? It wouldn’t have been were it not for the Reformers murdered in cold blood by the evil and apostate Church of Rome.
Protestants murdered plenty of Catholics. Let’s not sugar coat history.
Hey Ken, how about you stop pissing and moaning about the Catholic church and either repent of your sin or explain away the double standard you have?
To Ken, my brother in Christ,
Philippians 2 (KJV)
1If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.
Peace!
iggy
1. You brought up Luther and Arminius which are not related to the post. Matt b brougfht up the aids thing…… again. This is not related to the post.
2. You are now addressing my motives? matt b also?
As I said double standard. I am more honest than any of you will ever hope to be. I was not slamming gays as there are those who have contracted aids that are not homosexual. Apparently I am more aware of that fact than you.
Homosexuality is a sin btw. One among many sexual sins.
I wonder what you guys do in your spare time. My guess is nothing useful.
Matt
No one except maybe Stalin can approach the number of murders carried out by the papacy.
Chris P:
The number of murders does not justify any murders.
Thanks Jimmy, I love the Bible. But you asked for this my “brother” with your accusation that I claim “to be a pastor.”
And so now I repeat my original question: “what intent is that have you a problem with there Jimmy?”
Matt,
Yes and guns kill people too. However, the actual issue is either Martin Luther was raised up by God to rescue His Word and the only Gospel – which is by His grace ALONE, through faith ALONE, in Christ ALONE – or Luther was far more divisive than I’ll ever be.
You see the repugnant spiritual harlot that is the Roman Catholic Church has not changed their views on those tow issues since Trent.
Tim,
Suggestion. Please stick to issues you know something about. peace.
matt b
I was not justifying murder. Good Lord can any of you read for comprehension?
Let us see…how about calling Dan Kimball and Rob Bell “man-lovers” for a start.
Now I don’t know these men…as I am sure you don’t either…I have read your post in regards to Mr. Kimball…and I found your comments to be a little harsh.
Then again…maybe it’s because, as you put it, “and if you can’t take the heat friend then you’d best get out of the Lord’s kitchen as it’s going to get mighty hot up in here. How’s that for being relevant”.
So I ask…again…how is this kind of malicious attack edifying to the body of Christ?
Peace!
Lets get back to the issue. Why is unrination and defecation references acceptable but Swindoll discussing a prostate exam is unacceptable. If Mark Driscoll were to use the urination and defecation references, would Ingrid be o.k. with that.
Ken, your thoughts?
Dudes! You are all so defacating on the blood of the reformers. That is so not hot!
If you imagine Keanu Reeves saying it, it doesn’t sound nearly as offensive.
Phil,
Totally dude!
Ken,
You’re a world class buffoon. You’ve been called out, and instead of slinking away silently as most people caught in your situation would do you insist on dragging as many red herrings as possible across the discussion.
Like I said before, you need to repent, or justify. So far you’ve done neither.
Yeah phil, tres tubular and gnarly cuz. So now I guess this subject’s now closed. Totally cool with me. peace.
Tim,
Some of us live in the real world. And as you see, we’re all joking together now as the subject’s closed. So back up name-calling wagon. Or didn’t you know…
*picture Dana Carvey as George Bush*
Bad; very…bad. Not gonna do it.
From the Fruehapedia Dictionary –
Martin Luther – A common man used in an uncommon way by a great God. Fraught with imperfections, carried much of Rome with him, anti-semetic (Rome), and questioned some NT books, but still used mightily of God to bring the church back to the Scriptures and salvation be grace through faith alone.
We all know what Ken was saying with his hyperbole. But Darren makes a salient point. That language would have been deemed unacceptable by the radio station that dropped Swindoll. Yes, a double standard.
Ken – was that a reference to Saturday Night Live? You watch SNL? Isn’t that a little raunchy?
Ken…Now THAT was funny!
Matt,
*planting tongue in cheek* O come on now, you know very well this website is big on being Relevant. And, I didn’t say I watch SNL.
jimmy,
*tipping my hat* Thank you sir.
Thanks Ken,
We all know where you stand now. Your faux outrage at the language of pastors is nothing more than a manipulative way to ratchet up your hits. THat’s just pathetic, and I’m honestly shocked that you manage to get 13 people to listen to you weekly.
Chrsi P.
“iggy
1. You brought up Luther and Arminius which are not related to the post. Matt b brougfht up the aids thing…… again. This is not related to the post.
2. You are now addressing my motives? matt b also?
As I said double standard. I am more honest than any of you will ever hope to be. I was not slamming gays as there are those who have contracted aids that are not homosexual. Apparently I am more aware of that fact than you.
Homosexuality is a sin btw. One among many sexual sins.”
Now, notice in the actual post above… the topic is the language and also that it mentions the Reformers? So to say that I am off topic and the topic is the language ”
“–who urinates on the blood of the Reform”
“join him in urinating on the memory of the Reformers”
“defecate on the blood of the Reformers?”
And I mentioned those very reformers? So, this language which is used that one is abusing the reformers is off topic… you must be in another thread altogether cuz… reformers are in the topic…
and also… yes homosexuality is a sin… but these sinners are still worthy enough that Jesus gave His Blood for them. And for you to keep denying that you did not mean it the way we took it is to continue in your own sin. Chris even to give the appearance of evil sometimes warrants an apology even if it was not meant that way. Also, abusing others is also a sin… and if you care to really study it out the real sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was that the Kings of S and G sat with Melchizedek and gave thanks to the true God, then went back to their evil ways… which was abusiveness of others which included the sin of homosexuality… so abusiveness in any form is sin… even hidden in “nice” language.
Believe it or not I have apologized a lot in my day! LOL!
btw way the topic is what language is appropriate and that even if some language is not as offensive… if references like these offend me… does Ken need to apologize to me? And will he?
Again, the language is really secondary to the subtopic of whether it is hate language in disguise…
Be Blessed,
iggy
Tim,
It’s never been a secret where I stand. And if you’re comfortable judging my motives so be it. Just so you know you happen to be wrong.
*Jed Clampett* Weeeelllll doggies! Am I all the way up to 13 people now?! I reckon I don’t know if’n I can take that kinda pressure.
Here is another thought on this subject…from the Bible,
Ephesians 4:25-32
25Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26″In your anger do not sin”[a]: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27and do not give the devil a foothold. 28He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need.
29Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Peace!
“if references like these offend me… does Ken need to apologize to me?” No.
“And will he?” No, I have nothing to apologize for. If that language Jesus prompted me to use offends, then let it offend.
Ken
You wrote, “If that language Jesus prompted me to use offends, then let it offend.”
Would that be a valid argument for Mark Driscoll? Swindoll?
Let me answer for Ken-
“If that language Jesus prompted me to use offends, then let it offend. ”
Wow. I wish my writings were of the plenary and inerrant variety. As you would say, Ken, “Yikes!”. The implications of your direct literary direction from the Almighty are staggering. Go ahead and staple some of your stuff in the Bible if God directed dictationally to you.
Perhaps you may want to modify your comment, yes?
Now Matt B….can you say that with all certainty? If so…give examples!
“If that language Jesus prompted me to use offends, then let it offend.”
good lord. That reeks of Fred Phelps.
Ken,
So if your brother offends you, you scream it from the housetop… yet if you offend a brother you say… “If that language Jesus prompted me to use offends, then let it offend.â€
really that is rather pompous and self serving… and unbiblical as can be.
But, what I have come to expect…
Be Blessed,
iggy
Yeah guys; just feed your own preconceived ideas. That’s right, Jesus never offended anyone with His words did He?
Wow, check this out. Remember the post by Nathan about Jill Martin’s statement on Slice in which she wrote
Okay, so I messed up the blockquote tags. The following are my words, not a quote from someone else.
That Slice post has been quietly removed! Here is the URL which does not work any more.
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=281
Did Jill Martin relieve herself on the blood of the reformers too? Way to go, Slice!
So Ken, were you the one who alerted Ingrid of Jill Martin’s bathroom habits when she came back from vacation?
David C.,
All news to me my dear friend. Sorry to disappont you.
Sorry, that was sarcasm. It’s a very “Ken” answer. I like Driscoll and have no issues with Swindoll.
Let me guess Matt: “I like Driscoll and have no issues with Swindoll” but I don’t like Ken.
Ken,
for some reason you seem likable… but then sin looks good too at time otherwise it would not be tempting… ; )
Seriously though I do not see you as an evil villain… but one a bit lost in his direction and focus. really not much you have to say (especially the criticism of emergent) is relevant to me and my journey.. .but God has laid you on my heart so I am willing to follow His to see what He will do in you.
Blessings,
iggy
Hey, another red herring from Ken.
Answer the challenge Ken.
Ken,
“Yeah guys; just feed your own preconceived ideas. That’s right, Jesus never offended anyone with His words did He? ”
Jesus offended the religious leaders who taught that they could get God to do their bidding because of their own obedience…. which sounds familiar….
The others Jesus offended were also religious leaders who taught that they should mix gov’t service and their religion… (hmmm very republican)
Both were upset because Jesus hung out with sinners…
which are the very people that CRN and SOL and all the mini Kens out there say we should keep out of our churches…
Then use their words to sound loving, but then turn to devour even their own if they fall… they care nothing for sinners because, “who cares, they are all totally depraved people going to hell anyway”… which is the same thinking that lead millions to gas ovens in Germany… So, a truly discerning person will see hate behind the false love…
But, the blind carry one and justify that they have the right to judge others even though scirpture states… which you deny and have forgotten…
James 2:12-13 “Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!”
You desire judgement and give it out to others… yet Mercy is what will triumph… so judge and you will be judged… give mercy and it will come to you. I pray Mercy on you every day.
Come out from the law that does not save but shows death… and return to the law that gives freedom… the Law of Love that gives way to mercy that gives way to Grace…
Be Blessed,
iggy
Tim,
I’m afraid you present no challenge…
Ken,
Is Jill Martin an apostate Catholic lover? Is she on the same road to damnation as Rick Warren?
Just asking a simple question…
iggy
Ken, you and Ingrid should rebuke Jill Martin in public, shouldn’t you?
What is up with Ingrid removing the post with no comment?
While at it, you should rebuke Ingrid in public for not rebuking Jill Martin in public.
And Ingrid should rebuke you for not denouncing Jill Martin for her Catholic loving apostasy.
Yep, according to you and Ingrid, Jill Martin is an apostate… Yep, your mentors daughter (by tape series) is an apostate by the conditions you set out on Rick Warren and others…
You need to take a public stand against her… and Ingrid for not taking a public stand and rebuking her… I mean, otherwise you stand as a liar in that you are not truly “discerning” but playing partiality which James teaches against…
But, of course you will not do that… nor do i truly want you to… I do hope you see that you are going against scripture on many points though in this hypocrisy and double standard you created. Do be wise in your own eyes… lean not on your own understanding and in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct our path…
Blessings,
iggy
Iggy – Jill is close to being ecumentical in her comments. If Warren had said the same words (I’m sure he has), he would have wound up as Slice Shish-kabob!
By the way, I agree there are some believers in the RCC, but I agree with Ken (he hates that), the RCC is apostate. I do not know at what date she departed, all I know is she does not precah the gospel.
For God so loved the world that he sent his mother….
Rick,
I know we have gone round this already so no need to rehash… but i will say that as i have studied “Mary worship” there are some who do that and some who see that Mary was only co-redemptrix in that she took part in giving birth to Jesus… not that her blood saves us. In a way the blood of her giving birth gave us the savior…
Now that is not that she saves us as I said, but in that her roles was unique in relationship to Jesus and to the rest of humanity… can you tell me of another who has done as she… carried with her and gave birth to our Saviour?
Also, I do not know what Jill Martin actually preaches… but i would say that she can’t be that far from the Truth if she was a co author on SoL.
Also it is the core belief of the Blood of Jesus that saves us… and in the Catholics I know who truly love and serve Jesus… I can hardily say there is much difference in what Jesus had done in their lives and in mine… except that maybe there is one little old lady who died recently that if works could save you she would have surpassed all of us… of course works do not save us and she did not believe that… she taught only that our of our love for Jesus we serve others… and that was Mother Teresa.
In that because I have seen many who are changed by Jesus and hold to the RCC… I hesitate to call them apostate anymore than I would say all that abuse tongue in the charismatic movement are not saved also.
Blessings,
iggy
iggy,
“Is Jill Martin an apostate Catholic lover? Is she on the same road to damnation as Rick Warren?
I don’t know, you’ll have to ask her. So you see, I can’t answer the second question due to lack of that information. If you want, you can always let me know what you find out.
I love how ken will put alot of Christian Research into finding out Rick Warren’s heresies, but won’t do the same for the daughter of the man on his cassette tapes. Could you imagine him doing this:
“Is Rick Warren an apostate Catholic lover? Is he on the same road to damnation as Rob Bell?
I don’t know, you’ll have to ask him. So you see, I can’t answer the second question due to lack of that information. If you want, you can always let me know what you find out.
Ken, considering you spend “hours” of research on Bell, McLaren, etc, maybe you should look into this. Or are you afraid of your own hypocrisy?
David C.,
“Ken, you and Ingrid should rebuke Jill Martin in public, shouldn’t you?” Ah, my old friend. I personally don’t have time to look into where they might stand. The Lord has me involved in many other projects right now.
“What is up with Ingrid removing the post with no comment?” I would suppose she would have her reasons.
“While at it, you should rebuke Ingrid in public for not rebuking Jill Martin in public.” Nah, I’m good. However David, you of course must decide for yourself what you might do.
“And Ingrid should rebuke you for not denouncing Jill Martin for her Catholic loving apostasy.” I wouldn’t see why but of course Ingrid should follow what the Lord leads her to do. But as far as I know there’s no “Catholic loving apostasy” involved here.
I pray this helps ease your deep concerns.
Nathan,
Are your logic skills really this low: “I love how ken will put alot of Christian Research into finding out Rick Warren’s heresies,…”
I’m sorry, does the Walter Martin Religious InfoNet have a “Purpose Driven Catholics” section? Is Jill Martin Rische one of the most recoginized pastors in the Slowly Becoming Catholic, the largest allegedly “Protestant” denomination in the country?
Nice try though. Maybe one day…but not yet…
Iggy – the discussion has nothing to do with human beings be they Catholic or not. If a person still attends the worship at a Catholic Church they may be saved, but they did not get saved believing what the RCC teaches. And please do not attempt to explain or remove the ruff edges of the co-redeptrix teaching. That, my friend, is as heretical as it gets.
And if God would allow Mary to come back she herself would disassociate herself from the RCC.
Ken,
Its not my challenge. Its the challenge leveled in the very post you’re leaving comments on, but not actually commenting on. Now take a break break from crapping up the conversation with piss-poor red herrings to actually address what was written.
Why Tim, the post itself IS the red herring. And as I already said, there is no “challenge leveled.”
Ken,
If you have no defense all you have to do is repent, perhaps write an apology to your readers and link to it from the original post, no one will think less of you and most will probably think more of you. Pretending there’s no challenge though, just makes you look like a hypocrite.
Tim,
I have nothing I need to defend. I apologize for nothing in this instance. With all due respect Tim, I am far more concerned with what Jesus, Who sent me as one of His pastors-teachers, thinks of me than what you and others here think of me. You’ll see what you see and i can’t change that anyway.
And I’m not pretending anything because as I said before, in my view there is no legitimate challenge presented here. Frankly Tim, I truly feel I’d look like a “hypocrite” to you as long as I stand where I do.
But you know what; is ok, I can live with that.
Ken,
“I have nothing I need to defend. I apologize for nothing in this instance. With all due respect Tim, I am far more concerned with what Jesus, Who sent me as one of His pastors-teachers, thinks of me than what you and others here think of me. You’ll see what you see and i can’t change that anyway.”
If what you said was true… I really think you would not even be here… so you being here actually negates your statement… as every comment, even ever so snide is you defending yourself…
I have witnessed YOUR fruit and it stinks… to compare your works and fruit with Gods… is truly blasphemous…
Now also i warn you to be careful in that IF you are a pastor/teacher… humidity is to be of the highest for those “gifts” and they are to edify the body… personally I have not been very edified by you… but then you are not MY pastor or MY teacher… First and foremost the Holy Spirit is… then who I have submitted to here where I live… you are as far as I can see an equal… meaning a sinner saved by grace who may have either never fully realized what that means or who once did but has fallen from Grace… (be careful in how you interpret that statement)
Be Blessed,
iggy
iggy,
Just so you know to discuss something, even vigously, does not necessarily equate to defending oneself.
You also say: “personally I have not been very edified by you.” Fine, but you might want to ask the Lord why that is and meditate upon it. You see, I’ve done what I can.
Ken,
As a pastor-teacher, let me just say that you’re a pathetic example of a Christian. There’s no gentleness or honesty in you. The fruit you’re bearing looks nothing like the fruit God plants.
Tim,
“As a pastor-teacher, let me just say that you’re a pathetic example of a Christian.” Well pastor Tim, as a pastor-teacher as well, I say it would seem to me that you are actually looking into a mirror.
“There’s no gentleness or honesty in you.” Of course you are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, just so you know there are those who would disagree with your particular assessment here.
“The fruit you’re bearing looks nothing like the fruit God plants.” Here I’m afraid we are in disagreement again. My conscience is clear and my labor in Christ is within Biblical guidelines so I rest easy at night.
“I’m sorry, does the Walter Martin Religious InfoNet have a “Purpose Driven Catholics†section? ”
No
“Is Jill Martin Rische one of the most recoginized pastors in the Slowly Becoming Catholic, the largest allegedly “Protestant†denomination in the country?”"
I don’t know.
Way to once again not address the issue. Why don’t you do some Christian research on her and get back with us. Make sure you hold her to the same standard as Warren, of course.
Ken,
I’m looking in a mirror? If you’re going to break that out let me go get “I”m rubber and you’re glue….”
Seriously, you’re an angry, angry man who has more respect for the tradition of the elders than for the word of God. You’d rather deny, and obscure than admit wrong doing and repent, and you’d rather destroy than see any stylistic deviation from the church your grandfather grew up.
But of course all this is off topic (which I’d feel bad about if you had ever been on topic to begin with), so how about you get on topic by either justifying or repenting?
Nathan,
Oops, you have made the mistake of the false analogy. Rick Warren (apples) is “America’s Pastor” and a highly visible spokesman for the Slowly Becoming Catholic “Protestant” denomination who is openly promoting the apostate Roman Catholic Church as Christian.
Jil Martin Rische (oranges) is much less known the pseudo-Christian mega-pastors I cover like Warren and Rob Bell and Erwin McManus and might possibly be too sympathetic to that spiritual harlot Church of Rome.
All allegedly “Protestant” Christians but Rische is hardly as influential as the others. But hey, if you want to do some digging, have at it. I simply haven’t the time for it…
Tim,
What I have said is clear enough. You aren’t talking about me you are talking about someone who doesn’t exist.
In fact, your middle paragraph simply couldn’t be further from who I actually am and what I’m about. This is exactly why my local church just laughs out loud when you who comment here at CRN.Info? make such ridiculous judgments.
But if Mrs. Rick Warren had said the same thing we would all be posting. Please do not insult our intelligence, Ken, you and Ingrid show partiality, a respecter of persons.
I was saved under Billy Graham and am indebted to him, but I will speak out about his universalism. How are you indebted to Jill to such an extent that she gets a pass even when she says things on Ingrid’s blog that has you doing linguistic summersaults to explain . It is as I have said, you and Ingrid compromise when it comes to the people you support, even when they surprise you.
It’s tough to diguise it, because most of your rhetoric is so bombastic that when you say nothing there has to be a reason. You don’t have the time? We’ll let you take a week off from commenting here and give us a report on what you find. It’s too late to claim you are not a good researcher, you can find a fly on the darkside of the moon.
Funny. Why don’t you and Ingrid use that logic when you are harpooning the no-name church over at C?N for using U2 music in a service, holding a circus during church or even inviting Elvis to worship? No one has ever heard of those churches.
So which is it? Do you pick and choose who you “research” or based on who is more influential, or it really based on which headline will get the best ratings?
Your local church Ken? Oh that’s right it takes you about 30 seconds to call your entire local church and share with them. At least until you manage to drive them off as well.
Doesn’t it give you pause, even for a second, that so many people have written the exact same thing about you? That other than people who are exactly of the same mind as you and engage in the same kind of petty, nasty politicking as you are pointing out that you’re not representing Christ at all?
But again, back to the topic of the post we’re all leaving comments on: repent or justify Ken. Or continue looking like a pissant hypocrite.
Ken,
“Just so you know to discuss something, even vigously, does not necessarily equate to defending oneself.”
This sentence makes absolutely no sense… how can one discuss something vigorously and not be defending their position?
Also:
“You also say: “personally I have not been very edified by you.†Fine, but you might want to ask the Lord why that is and meditate upon it. You see, I’ve done what I can.”
I do know why Ken… because you have not even tried to edify me… and possibly your rationalization is that you think I am not saved… which again urinates on the Cross of Jesus…as He was willing to die for his enemies… and you just mock yours… (Again, I do not consider you my enemy… but a brother who has missed the call of the grace and mercy of God that is based on love and not hate.)
Be blessed,
iggy
Rick,
Thanks for the advice. Maybe you can research Mrs. Ricshe sometime when you’re on your woman teacher hobby horse y’know.
Nathan,
O you scamp. You know very well you’re not the One who guides where I, or even Ingrid, researches. I can only speak for myself but I work where the Master instructs me. How ’bout you?
Ken,
So you have selective prey in you rhearsy hunting? LOL!
And don’t blame God with that!
iggy
Tim,
“Oh that’s right it takes you about 30 seconds to call your entire local church and share with them. At least until you manage to drive them off as well.” *tsk* *tsk* So size is the barometer of a healthy church “pastor”?
“Doesn’t it give you pause, even for a second, that so many people have written the exact same thing about you?” Um, let me see…nope. Got plenty of others who don’t write the exact same thing.
“That other than people who are exactly of the same mind as you and engage in the same kind of petty, nasty politicking as you are pointing out that you’re not representing Christ at all?”
Nope. Cuz the semi-pelagian new evangelical pseudo-Christians would be likely to speak with their father’s voice. Hint for you Tim: That voice doesn’t sound at all like the Voice of the Great Shepherd.
“But again, back to the topic of the post we’re all leaving comments on: repent or justify Ken. Or continue looking like a pissant hypocrite.” Follow along Tim. I already said I have zero concerning this post to repent of. I have nothing to justify.
So I have answered this non-challenge and whether I’m hypocrite does depend on who’s doing the accusing.
It’s the woman/elder hobby horse, please.
iggy,
You do know I would have no choice but to be selective. Didn’t you know, I’m not omniscient?
Ken,
So one heretic brings more hits to your site than another? I see how it works… pretty slick… and sick…
iggy
iggy,
Judging motives is not very wise, ya know…
Ken,
You wrote:
I seem to recall someone writing something about being judged by the same measures which we use to judge.
That, and I also seem to remember something about a pot and a kettle – which comes to mind with the above quote.
You know very well you’re not the One who guides where I, or even Ingrid, researches. I can only speak for myself but I work where the Master instructs me.
ummm….
yeah.
sorry…
I just came back from defecating in a nice bucket of reformer blood and was just knocked speechless at the megalomania of that statement…
that’s just so…over the top…
Anyway.
Gotta run.
Found a nice copy of the Institutes to urinate on.
gimme a break.
Ken,
Maybe a word of knowledge… maybe not… but the other option would be that you are so full of yourself that you think that God has some really special anointing on you that no one else can have… and that is sicker and a sign of a cult leader… or like a Benny Hinn type who declares that “no one should speak against the anointed of God.” Which is a very bad understanding of the scriptural teachings on that topic… David spoke of not harming Saul… because he was anointed of God… yet God was no longer pleased with Saul…
Other and a few “anointed” for other reason… Jesus is the only Anointed One… and you are not even close to His league… so I will not even attempt to go there….
So either you are under some bad false teachings of “anointing” which sounds close to that of Benny Hinn… or you are doing your selective hearsay hunt for other reasons… which seem self serving…
So which is it?
Blessings,
iggy
Ken,
The point that you have a small church mean nothing.. but the point that a rather healthy sized church diminished because you “cleaned house” seems to indicate that you are missing that a healthy church should have sinners in it… like Corinth as example and the Churches John addresses in his epistles…. you should have a mixture of mature, young, seeking, and curiosity seekers… (the latter is more just some passing through)
Yet, it seems if they did not agree with Ken, then it was goodbye… I think maybe some in that church may have had more discernment than you might realize…
be blessed,
iggy
If the tiny size of your Sunday school class doesn’t say something about your “pastorship” then the fact that they’ve got nothing better to do than follow your 1337 interweb battles certainly does.
Tim,
Then what does your belaboring this point say about you? If you really wish to know that perhaps I’m involved in justa wee bit more than you might think you can go here:
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2007/06/churched_aharry.html
Beyond this I have nothing further to say here. Believe it or not, while Chris Lyons and I differ vigorously, I do respect him and don’t want to take his websote here any further off the course he feels it should be on.
This bears repeating, “I do respect him and don’t want to take his websote here any further off the course he feels it should be on.”
Ken,
So do you miss your long hair or do you still have it?
Ken,
Lies. You’ve taken this entire thread off course. But we’ll let you get back to your regularly scheduled pissing contest with everyone not named Ingrid.
Ken,
I have listened to hours of Walter Martin tapes and teachings… along with hours of other great teachers. Yet, to listen to tapes is not the same thing as:
“I have also been specifically trained in counter-cult evangelism”
Interestingly I think I may know just as much if not more on this topic as you… yet would never make this sort of claim… why? Honesty for one thing… I do not want people to think I was “trained” as in worked under directly or was in a classroom and actually interacted with the person training me.
So, at least elsewhere you have been honest enough to say it was on “tapes” you have been trained but to say this to “harry” was very misleading and dishonest… which I give could be unintentional as it is often out of insecurity we want to sound bigger than we are. I know I have been guilty of this in ways myself… until God opened my eyes to see it.
Again, Ken… I think that IF God has called you as you believe… then this questioning of you “training” or credentials would not even be an issue. In fact I have a bit more “training” than you and feel no need to defend myself about how/where/when/who my training came from or was taught by.
I was directly disciples under a few great men… in fact I actually met one and he knows my name! I took courses from him and am credited to teach his stuff and start small groups and advertise if I want using his name…
I respect this man yet found I do disagree on minor things… and do not do this as I do not want to mislead people to think I agree in all things with this man as I once did.
Now… I think the issue is not Tim… but Ken who seems to need to prove how great he is to everyone so don’t hide behind Chris Lyons (respectfully) as it sounds rather insincere coming from you.
Blessings,
iggy
As far as “training” with tapes, I see your point Iggy; I also know for myself that this kind of indirect training – whether it’s tapes, or studying books, can be quite effective. For example I’m learning another language using tapes – as opposed to a classroom setting, I can go over the material again and again, trying to get it right. It’s quite effective.
In the past many were self-taught in some areas, through books as opposed to having a teacher, and were able to learn quite well – good ol’ Abe, for example.
Amy,
Again, I am not saying that one cannot learn from tapes or listening to the radio or whatever and be very effective… but I think it a bit dishonest to represent oneself as if they sat directly under that teacher… or use that as some sort of defense.
If one is called, then stand on that calling… I don’t see the need to justify ourselves (God has done that very well) and we are all directly under the Holy Spirits training and discipleship as Followers of Jesus.
Blessings,
iggy