I found this to be pretty funny.  The “editor” over at C?N has once again tried to pin down Erwin McManus to the emergent movement.  And, once again he/she/it has failed.

The whole article is over Mosaic’s annual Origins Conference, held in the Los Angeles Area every year.  His opening line is as follows:

“Emerging Pastor David trotter blogs about the recent origins conference sponsored by Erwin McManus’ Mosaic Alliance.”  (emphasis mine)

Simply looking at the date would show the “editor” that the event in question was held in June of 2005.  Should three years ago be considered “recent”?  If they can’t even get the dates right, how is he/she/it going to get the content right?  Or maybe they are just running out of recent material.

The part that I found hilarious was this quote from the blogger about a session at the conference with Alex McManus that C?N took offence over

Alex asked us “how did you get here?” His main point was a reminder that no one (including ourselves) brought us to this point – God did. God has called us to do what we’re doing

Sound like a good ol’ reformed thought, right?  God had ordained and called to do what we are doing.  Ironically, the “editor” accuses Alex McManus of this

(editor’s note:  fatalism)

I pretty much laughed for the good part of three minutes.  Here is a man at a conference in 2005 who is not a reformed theologian.  He makes a statement about God calling us to do what we are doing, and he is suddenly teaching fatalism.

Of course when we point out that the majority of reformed theology is based on a fatalistic theology, we are accused of defecating on the blood of the reformers.  But, I guess when you gotta keep the tabloids coming, you will dig pretty deep for a story.

  • Share/Bookmark
This entry was posted on Wednesday, July 11th, 2007 at 10:55 am and is filed under Editor, Emergent Church, Humor, Linked Articles, ODM Responses, ODM Writers. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+/- Collapse/Expand All

6 Comments(+Add)

1   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 11th, 2007 at 3:58 pm

When people believe that it is all prearranged to the point they no longer have no responsibility… then they can rationalize whatever they do as being “from God”…

Hitler believed that and many German theologians believed that Calvinism was a major part in the rationalization of the extermination of the Jews… This is not made up… if one looks this up they will find it true.

The thing is this… “Why are we worried about 6 million “totally depraved humans burning in ovens… most would have burned in hell anyway”… and that is sick!

This is not a knock against “Calvinism” but a warning against the acceptance of fatalism as some are teaching today.

Be Blessed,

2   Henry (Rick) Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 11th, 2007 at 4:14 pm

It is a removing of the love of Christ, and a limit of His atonement. Let us remove some more of the emperor’s clothes, much of the disgust that some of these reformed watchman have for these people has to do with them being Arminian. Iggy makes a good and obvious point.

As far as the Lutheran church in pre-war Germany, it was the political turn the church took in the late twenties and early thirties that helped Hitler take power.

You cannot have it both ways and we cannot let them get away with it. They pick a fly off the moon and yet they travel the electron highway with theological impunity. If it doesn’t matter eternally, and if nothing can change the population of either heaven or hell, then why are some of these self appointed Calvinistic watchman so vitriolic and demeaning toward others? And why does it matter if Bell preaches Popeye, it changes NOTHING.

They are the height of inconsistency to say nothing of looking down there predestined noses to verbally savage preachers who are doing NO HARM ETERNALLY. You may think that it is a hobby horse, but we should not let them take the fifth on what amounts to a theological oxi-moron. It isn’t just ringing an old bell, it’s sounding the MAIN BELL!

Words from people like Ken with his theology are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

3   Jim    http://www.watcherslamp.blogspot.com
July 12th, 2007 at 3:38 pm


It appears the joke is on me…I posted the comments as editor for general reference at CRN, not Ken.

I stand corrected regarding the date of the publishing of the this article by Next Wave. While perusing the July 2007 issue, I found the McManus article, not recognizing the “archive” status.

Mia Culpa for date mix – up, but I stand by my comments. And by the way, there is no effort to associate McManus with the emergents in my post, rather the author of the article identified himself as an “emergent pastor”, writing for the emergent magazine.

However, McManus’s associations in 2007 speak volumes about his where he sits theologically.



4   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 12th, 2007 at 3:57 pm


Then are you of the mindset that Jon Gordon’s recent conversion is false?

If he is under the influence of “associations” and as you are implying by this that his theology is bad…
then I can only conclude you would think that Jon Gordon’s conversion is not true.

Just asking,

5   Nathan    http://www.nathanneighbour.com
July 13th, 2007 at 2:57 am


I would like you to explain what you meant by “McManus’s associations in 2007 speak volumes about his where he sits theologically.” If you are saying that someone’s theology is based on who someone hangs out with, then we need to talk. If that’s the case, then Jesus’ theology should have been pretty wacky.

6   Tim Reed    
July 13th, 2007 at 7:44 am

“However, McManus’s associations in 2007 speak volumes about his where he sits theologically.”

I always worry about someone’s theology when they’re a member of the SBC too.