I am sorry, but I am really tired of articles like this. First, as an emerging leader, I am accused all over the internet of being shallow, doctrinally weak and too focused on insignificant elements in church. However, there has been an increasing trend among watchdoggie blogs to write articles on nothing but someone’s appearance.
Keith from Watwasithinkin? had this to say about Dan Kimball
One of the people below is Dan Kimball, who is from what I’ve been able to put together, an author of several books related to the emerging church (and no I haven’t read any of them)… I had never heard of Dan Kimball before now.
I didn’t watch all of the video. I couldn’t. I could not get past the hairdo!!! …How in the world does an ADULT walk out of the house looking like this and think: “Man, my ‘do’ is looking goooooood today!â€â€¦To the people that will see this and be offended, may I offer the following: If you REALLY want to be taken just a little bit serious…DO NOT WALK OUT OUT OF YOUR HOUSE LOOKING LIKE THIS!
Here’s a guy who doesn’t even know Dan, but feels it necessary to critique his HAIR!?! I have come to believe (in the hundreds of conversations I have had with people visiting Mosaic) that the main beef with watchdoggie blogs is style, not substance. Most articles have to do with music, traditions, “the way things used to be†and how the good ‘ol days need to come back. My grandfather, Ralph W Neighbour Jr., wrote a book in 1979 before The Survival Kit called The Seven Last Words of the Church. You know what he said that the last words of the church there were going to be over 25 years ago? “We’ve never done it that way before.â€Â Man was he right. I just hoped it would all have a little more depth to it than hair-dos and clothing.Â
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Keith says “I can’t control myself”. I believe that one of the fruits of the Spirit is self control.
By Keith’s fruits, he is known.
Gee, maybe I shouldn’t have had my hair cut as short as I did last time (#4 clipper on the top, #2 on the sides). I guess SOL/CRN won’t take me seriously. And as I lose more weight, I suppose my credibility will drop with the number on the scale.
Oh well. I’m just glad to know God isn’t upset over how I cut my hair, and is probably pleased that I’m taking care of my body (temple of the Holy Spirit, you know).
Perhaps someone should tell Keith that his son’s glasses looks, well, very Rob Bellish…
http://fivepts.blogspot.com/2007/07/looking-back-friday-photos.html
He had a picture up with one of his kids wearing a “Coldplay” T shirt. Obviously, a secular band, that styles itself in the U2 fashion. Now, who can take a guy who let’s his kids get away with that seriously?
wow, my grandfather quotes your grandfather all the time then
….but let’s not make Keith our new whipping boy. Or his son. Just the general wrongness of purposefully taking glee in making fun of another’s appearance.
Just saying.
Agreed, Julie… This isn’t a pile-on. The point is not judging by externals, not looking for hypocrites…
Josh,
Are you the “cheesehead in somewhere” blog? Clearly’s friend? I’ve been trying to find your blog to no avail.
I didn’t mean to be mean to Keith or his son. I did it to make the point that Keith wouldn’t like it if someone pointed out appearance issues of him or his son. He shouldn’t be doing it to others. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
I think Keith looks rather cartoonish….
Be Blessed,
iggy
Iggy is technically correct.
I’m not that crazy about my son’s glasses either! (Now, I guess someone will jump on me for not being a Godly father and MAKING him wear glasses that are more biblical.)
Iggy and Julie are both technically correct.
If they knew anything about Dan they would realize that his hairstyle is influenced by his love for Rockabilly music and culture and has nothing to do with what they call the emerging church.
Just curious. Is anyone as upset about this post? Click on the last picture/poster.
Team Pyro has been, at times, as classless as the rest of the watchpoodles. Seems they’ve decided to ditch whatever legitimacy they had in favor of personal attacks. Maybe they’d let you join the blog Keith.
Nothing new there. Team Pyro has been mocking and misrepresenting people for a long time now. Phil Johnson is a little more creative with his use of re-worked comic book covers, and the ones you lined to, but being creative about misrepresenting and mocking others doesn’t lessen it’s overall unChrist-likeness.
Again, nothing new at the Pyre — Phil J. is just another of the canines in Johnnie Mac’s rabid kennel. Occasionally funny (the pictures) but the mocking spirit behind them isn’t from God.
Philly J is becoming more and more rediculous with each post. These guys are all loosing their credibility so fast, and now onder when they post blogs about hair-dos and fashion. The obviously are loosing the little influence they had, and are scraping for anything now.
Rev Scottie,
I mean how many people really love rockabilly in this culture?
LOL!
good to see ya here!
Blessings,
iggy
Keith,
I tis typical Phil Johnson who can never do wrong for he is anointed by the great and powerful Jonny Mac who is the last true teacher of “grace to you” (as long as you agree totally with him and his followers then it rapidly turns to “hell to you”)
It only shows his ignorance about the topic he is making fun of…
but that would take another post…
you should come over to my side of the pool sometime! LOL!
be blessed,
iggy
Is it really necessary to make fun of the way this man’s son looks in order to prove the point about why he shouldn’t make fun of the way someone else looks?
Also, I read the Team Pyro blog from time to time and while those guys can be pretty inflexible, I’ve never seen them say anything half as nasty (personal, and childish) as what has been posted about them here.
Maybe you ought to pray about closing this blog down. It has become the mirror image of what it was started to oppose.
TWalker-
No one here “made fun of this man’s son”. We just pointed out that he had Rob Bell glasses and wore a Coldplay tshirt.
TWalker,
Actually, I have prayed about the direction of this blog, which was why I posted this and this. It is also why I posted the note above (July 24, 2007, 7:34 pm) to redirect the thread from trying to look for hypocrisy (what Keith’s son is wearing) back to the original topic: Judging others by externals, like their hair.
For now, I think that this blog will shut down when places like SoL, AM and C&N decide to stop slandering other Christians and when Phil at TeamPyro allows discussion about his own church and pastor…
“They did it first” and “he won’t let me use his blog to criticize his pastor” doesn’t really explain the way you have allowed the level of nastiness to be escalated and the level of childishness to be lowered at your blog.
So I think you missed my point, but . . . whatever. If you’re proud of the kinds of things being posted here, more power to you.
TWalker,
I think the level of nastiness dropped considerably after Ken Silva left…
LOL!
iggy
Twalker,
I’m trying to raise the level of discourse again, but also trying to keep the mission in mind.
Am I proud of everything posted here? No. Do I think we’re improving? Yes. Do I think we have a ways to go? Yes.
One thing I won’t do is block/ban users and delete comments/posts. This does open things up to be abused, but if this isn’t done, then the comments become crafted to whatever opinion I wish to be conveyed, and we become hypocrites.
Did you even read the posts I linked to? We’ve got a particular mission and niche to fill, and (to pardon the barnyard comparison) sometimes when you’re wrestling with pigs, you can’t really help but get a little mud on yourself at the same time.
For a better look at discourse here (without the focus on externals), you might read the thread on “Church Growth a Bad Thing?”
So the suggestion is to close the blog down.
Well, that takes care of my internet time-wasting problem.
Frankly, even though some of the comments and tone on this blog (my own included) shame me, I appreciate the openess of not deleting posts or comments as a way to let each person reveal who they really are and what they really think. None of this “amen” chorus.
I also have Rob Bell glasses in my eye glass collection. I do lack a goatee.
Julie,
I think that if you lived near my family we would be friends, unless you hate kids, which we have in abundance.
You just crack me up.
Joe,
Jeremy’s blog is:
http://cheeseheadinparadise.wordpress.com/
I enjoyed seeing Dan’s hair because looking at it gave me the best laugh I’ve had all day. I don’t mean that meanly – my sons do stuff like that with their hair sometimes after showering, and it’s amazing what they can come up with, and we always get a great laugh out of it.
This is NOT a criticism, or sarcasm; I really mean it – I enjoyed his hairstyle, and so did the other people standing around my computer. We weren’t laughing at Dan – we were enjoying his incredible hairstyle.
Julie,
I have to say I’m glad to hear you’ve opted out of a goatee
Julie,
I’ve seen it on women before… It is not that attractive.
iggy
OK. So if I say I simply “enjoyed Dan’s hair”, will you not think I’m a mean, non-Christian anymore?
I have to admit, I did laugh out loud–just like Amy.
Keith,
One can agree that Dan’s hair is different and even a bit funny… He is a great sport about it.
But hair has nothing to do with being a false teacher and that is the point we are making… it seems that when some who are against emerging critique it they go to superficial things like hair, music, pews, and such that have nothing to do with true Godly things.
Also it make someone seem very shallow.
I wanted to apologize for some of my comments… if they were taken in a mean spirited way I did not mean it that way, I too may have crossed a line. So, sorry.
Be blessed,
iggy
Keith,
I actually thought, especially after seeing Dan’s picture, that your reaction was probably taken more seriously than you ever imagined it could be.
Honestly if Dan lived in my neighborhood I would smile every time I saw him. If I tried to have a serious conversation with him, it would be difficult, especially if a certain one of my children was present. We have a way of catching each other’s eye . . .
I’m not sure that I would have posted what you did – but generally posting something about something that someone has intentionally done to their hair is something that the person himself will have a sense of humour about. Quite different than making an ugly post about other physical features of a person such as their weight, buck teeth, etc.
Joe, no, I just found ya’ll randomly, I have multiple blogs and haven’t decided which blog to put up yet
Iggy:
Apology accepted.
You said: “…hair has nothing to do with being a false teacher and that is the point we are making.” Are you ready for this? I agree with you! I went back and read my post, and I don’t believe I accused Mr. Kimball of being a false teacher just because of his hair. If my comments implied that, then I too aplogize. MY point–and I thought I conveyed it, but maybe some misinterpreted–was that I would have a hard time focusing on what he was saying or taking him serious because of the “hairdo.” You even admitted it was “different and even a bit funny.” I’ve stated elsewhere, it wouldn’t matter what he was talking about or what “group” he represents. It has nothing to do with his theology, doctrine, etc. I don’t know Dan and many of you do. You would be better equipped to discern the fruit or lack of it in his life. I simply think he has outrageous hair.
I’m going to tell you something that will probably surprise you–about 10 years ago, I got my ear pierced. I quit wearing an earring when some people approached me and told me that although they knew me, they were concerned about that “image” that portrayed. I was serving as an Elder in the church and teaching a High School Sunday School class at the time. Rather than defend the liberty I have to wear an earring, I chose to avoid the possible conflict. It was just easier that way. So you see. I’ve been on the receiving end of the “judging by appearance” thing. I didn’t get mad at those people. I’m not saying I agreed with them 100%–I just figured, why push it. Whether you or I like it or not, people do and probably always will judge by “externals.” Everybody deals with it differently.
Does this mean we’re actually close to being in agreement on something??!! 8^)> (Notice the goatee emoticon–that’s right. I’ve got a goatee, but it’s a calvinist goatee, not an emergent goatee.)
Keith,
Now let me tell you something…
My sister in law sent to Dan’s church and said she had a hard time focusing on the teaching as Dan’s hair was sooooo perfect! LOL!
So, I agree it could be a distraction… but really I am glad that you see that the appearance has nothing to do with whether one is teaching error or truth… in fact I know a lot of very conservative (more in fact) that teach error than I do non conservative looking people…
So by default one could surmise to not have a pierced ear, goatee, and such is being closer to teaching truth! LOL!
I do sorta like your sense of humor… and I think I too need to temper my own with a bit more love…. ; )
btw I had a double pierced ear… and long hair… a very sculptured beard… and had that grunge look down…
I let my piercings grow in and lost, errr I mean cut my hear and wear mostly Hawaiian shirts… I have been told by some I resemble Rick Warren… gasp!
Oh also, I think that there are too many Calvinist emergents with goatees… so I am working on getting them to drop the Calvinist part! (just kidding!)
LOL!
blessings,
iggy