This post has to be the dumbest, most illogical thing I’ve ever read. I mean, maybe the author is on some hallucinogenic? I don’t know, how in the world does that church now represent the emergent movement. Men and women how long will we tolerate this kind of “discernment” and “research?”
This would be like blaming all the fundamentalist for Jim Jones. That wouldn’t make sense and frankly neither does this waste of space called a post.
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40 Comments(+Add)
Where does this post say that this church is part of the ecm?
CRN is an information site, and as such can post on anything going on in “post-modern christianity”
Take a valium.
Chris P.
I think that would be illegal as I don’t have a prescription. Maybe not though, are you a Dr. and if so is that a prescription?
Yeah I’m sure the use of the term “emerging” wasn’t meant to prejudice the reader at all. I also got the idea from reading it that he was attributing it to the emerging church.
That’s either really poor writing, or deliberately deceptive.
The stupid thing is not that it is written in a way that might suggest “emerging” in a “church”… but that this is something new in the news…
I mean when I was growing up it was Santeria on trial… and Rastafarian and so on…
Though it does not say it directly and the “editor” seems as elusive as usual… I think he is smiling to himself that someone will get his knickers in a bind over it…
So, there is a “pot church” that is fighting for religious freedom… and the editor seems to be against religious freedom.
that is what I get out of it… the editor is against
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
So, I guess this person is anti American.
be blessed,
iggy
I agree that the use of the word “emerging” in the linked post most likely is incidental, and not meaning to infer to the emerging church.
However, THIS ONE leaves no doubt at all: Why Al Qaeda Supports The Emergent Church. This guy has out-sliced SOL.
interestingly i wonder if he stole this from me…
http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/2007/01/something-that-made-me-go-hmmm.html
iggy
robby,
if he is serious, then he is whacked out!
He seems to not care what the bible teaches, just that we kill the enemies…
blessings,
iggy
Ken and Co. have no shame.
I guess the article that Joe pointed out just proves it is easy to defeat a made up opponent.
robbymac,
That article you is both sad and frightening. I think people like that assume that heaven will have an American flag flying over it. I guess he would rather kill Muslims than introduce them to Jesus from the tone of that article. I also think it just plain laughable how says that the ECM is anti-science.
I will admit I am a registered Republican, but it’s reading things like that make we want to not be at all associated with the “conservative” movement. Oddly enough, I would consider being a Libertarian if they were actually known for more than supporting the legalization of drugs.
“That’s either really poor writing, or deliberately deceptive. ”
Ah Tim to you I say, physician heal thyself.
That was exactly my point several posts back when you used deception in creating a blog with a fictitious author.
Of course evryone misunderstood my use of Jesus’ statement to the Sanhedrin. The new thing is so focused on being”subversive”. My point was Jesus didn’t hide behind a fake persona. Neither does crn.
The crn post did not say that the “pot’ church is an emerging church. Talk about jumping to conclusions.
If valium is unavailable try Prozac.
As for libertarians, I would be one if they believed in God.
“This won’t be the last time news like this comes EMERGING in a church.”
The author could have used any other word. It was a poorly written piece.
What is really sad, phil,is that article represents how many “main-stream” conservatives think in their heart of hearts. I live in a bastion of conseratism- Grand Rapids, Mi. It’s a regular occurance to have the president or other Republican higher-ups come to town. Last year the Republican party here was going to have Anne Coulter speak at one of their functions. I believe Coulter would echo everything written in the said article, yet conservative republicans still embrace her. Thankfully, I think this stream of conservatism is on it’s way out, hopefully Christians on the left and right will continue to seek common ground.
Just for the record:
1) I would agree that the word ‘emerging’ was used in such a clunky way to suggest that it was used for a double-meaning
2) There was no additional commentary attempting to tie pot-smoking to emerging churches
3) The Al-Queda article is a gazillion times worse
4) I think we’d really have to stretch to find someone in the ECM that would officially support smoking pot, and the degree to which we would have to stretch would probably reveal as many fringe cases in other Christian traditions. Everyone has their nutcases.
5) Chris P, I think the ‘anonymity’ aspect is something we ALL need to deal with. Currently, the “Editor” function at CRN removes the need for accountability on the part of those using it. If it were merely used for linking to outside sources w/o offering commentary, this would not be an issue. However, as was the case in the article Joe linked to, the ‘Editor’ offered additional commentary which generated questions (though I would agree that this particular one is more of a tempest in a teapot than other recent examples). When commentary/opinion can’t be attributed, accountability is lost, which only leads discourse in a single direction…
6) I considered the Libertarian Party at one time, as well, but couldn’t support it for both reasons mentioned and a few others along the same lines.
7) I rarely get to point #7
Chris
“I think we’d really have to stretch to find someone in the ECM that would officially support smoking pot…”
Hmm, I don’t have to stretch to find someone who will say, “The Bible is one f_____ scary book.” Makes me wonder….
Love Frank Pastore’s article. LOL!
Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allhu Akbar!
Now seriously, his article does resonate with many that I know. I have always wondered when the fundamentalists will start employing violence to silence those who don’t dine and march in lockstep with them.
Think about it. The only answer to terror is military answer. So what is the logical answer to deal with Al Queda sympathizers such as the Emergent church?
For the record, I am NOT a member of the Emergent Church, so please don’t try to kill me.
One day, we may find ourselves longing for the good ole day when the vitriol and invective were confined just to the Internet. LOL! Enjoy it while it lasts.
Clearly,
I don’t have to stretch to find a fundamentalist who will say “God hates fags”, but I wouldn’t suggest that such sentiment is in line with the fundamentalist movement.
As you’ve demonstrated, such comparisons are hyperbolic and idiotic.
I do not think it was a accident that ken used that E word.he has tried many times in the past to tie pot smoking to the EC.
Opus
clearly,
I don’t know what that has to do with this conversation. The funny thing is that the people reacting over Jones statement have completely ignored the actual content of it. The Bible is a scary book. It seems to me that if we are saying it is our authority, there are a lot of things that will challenge our preconceived notions.
Chris L,
Westbro is to fundamentalism as nothing is to the emergent movement.
Tony is the national coordinator for the emergent village, not the owner of a racist compound in kansas.
clearly,
Using the f-word is not condoning the use of illegal and harmful substances, either.
“The funny thing is that the people reacting over Jones statement have completely ignored the actual content of it.”
Reason #1423 for Christian leaders not to use vile curse words when speaking: Christians dedicated to holiness will ignore what you are trying to say and only focus on the fact that you just dropped the f-bomb
Additionally, Emergent Village (i.e. Tony Jones) does not speak for most of the folks in the emerging church…
Chris L,
But it is condoning the usage of the f-bomb, which is just as wrong in God’s eyes…
Clearly, to correct your comment:
I once heard a sermon which used a quote I’ve heard attributed to a number of individuals:
“In the past 5 minutes, nearly 5,000 children have died on the African continent, and most Christians in the US don’t give a s*** about it. The sad thing is, most of you are more upset that I said the word s*** than that 5,000 children have just died.”
I agree with him, because someone else using a curse word has no effect on your personal holiness, which your “reason” implied.
I do not support the use of ’swear words’, and I don’t think it makes one relevant. I do think it says something about the individual using it, particularly when used gratuitously.
As I look at Fred Phelps, SoL and C&N and their ‘witness’ on behalf of fundamentalism, I see a direct and equal comparison to EC figures who use curse words or twist scripture to try to define deviancy down. HOWEVER, I also see that these things – hatred from the Fundamentalist camp and immorality from the EC camp – are not what either movement stands for, but things which are used to characterize the movements as a whole by those who disagree with them.
clearly,
You said:
Let’s avoid the logical fallicies, shall we?
Using the logic you’ve just stated, then I suppose we could say that it’s not that far of a stretch that Jones’ church would support mass murder, rape, and erecting a statue of Mao and worshipping it. Furthermore, since Johnnie Mac’s church condones hatred toward other Christians from the pulpit, I suppose we could say all the same things about the fundamentalist church, as well.
HOWEVER
While all sins are equal in the eyes of God (all are just as damning), they are not all dealt with equally, by His own word.
Chis L,
It’s not a logical fallacy. I’m simply saying that it’s just as wrong as any other sin. If I said homosexuality was just as wrong as heterosexual fornication, you wouldn’t have any problems with that, I don’t think.
Please demonstrate that “Johnnie Mac” promotes hatred from his pulpit. Speaking of slander…
By they way, at Imago Dei this past Sunday, the speaker, through an example he was giving, condemned drug use.
Imago Dei is one of the leading emerging churches and Donald Miller’s home church.
clearly,
Just because all sins are equal (meaning that they are equal in terms of their damning), does not mean that one who fails in the area of personal sin (such as swearing, which can be another topic of debate) is a proponent of that sin, and therefore a proponent for all types of sin. That is where the fallacy in your logic lies.
Or, to use an analogy. I live in Indiana. Fort Wayne is in Indiana. However, this does not mean that I live in Fort Wayne.
The line of logic you’re following is the same one that has led to atrocities throughout the past 2000 years of Christianity, which is why I will kindly reject it.
As for Johnnie Mac, I don’t have to point past the “Truth War” to show his hatred for other Christians…
clearly,
Let me ask you this – if Jones had said “the Bible is freaking scary book”, how would people have reacted to it? I do not support cursing, but I do think we do have to look at the context and meaning of words. In the sense that Jones used that word, it does not seem as vile as it is other contexts. It seems it was purely for shock value, but it is odd to me how when substitute a “clean” word that means the exact same thing, the statement become kosher. I’m not saying Jone’s use of the word was correct. It’s very analagous to what John Piper did at his breakout session at Passion 07.
Matt,
Rob Bell also spoke against drug usage in the Easter Series this year at Mars Hill – another church many (though not Bell) consider ‘emerging’.
Phil, I was ticked when Piper said a– at his Passion 07 conference. Piper is not untouchable for me…as he is with others. Think about this though, Phil. I know you are tender to God. Is it appropriate to use a work like the f-bomb in the same context as the Holy Scripture? If we are honest, we have to say no. Substituting a “bye-word” like freaking really doesn’t save the comment. How about “The Bible is a scary book?”
Chris L,
I see from where you are coming. I still think that using the f-bomb in a public setting in the context of the Scriptures, is more than a simple slip-up.
clearly,
I did not agree with his usage, either. I still see it, though, as a personal sin on his part – not something that is condoned by most emerging churches I am familiar with.
clearly,
Honestly, I would swearing is at the very bottom of my list of sins I worry about. Personally, I can say it not something that tempts me, but it’s not something that really bothers me. I guess in a the big picture it really depends on the context. I’ve met a lot of people who became Christians after living a lifestyle where those words were just part of their vocabulary. They occasionally come out, and I’m not going to be swear word policeman about it. I’ve also been around people that will never use a swear word, but still tear people to shreds with their language. It’s a heart issue. To make it about the words itself is focusing on the externals.
As far as using things in the contect of the “Holy Scripture”, I would say it is not useful to have such a separation of sacred and secular. To do so just promotes the view that it’s OK to act one way with Christians and God, and another in other places. If someone feels it’s OK to swear around their friends, then they should feel free to swear in a church building. That might seem extreme, but it’s the only way to be consistent, I think.
CLearly,
Hmm, I don’t have to stretch to find someone who will say, “The Bible is one f_____ scary book.†Makes me wonder….
I think someone mentioned this, yet I think that many people in general do think the Bible is rather scary. People like Phelps do not help…
About Jonny Mac spreading hate…. To write at least two poorly researched books slandering many people with huge generalities and blanketed statements seems to me to be promoting division… which is a form of hate.
I have been accused and attack by followers who condemned me for just having a link to Brian McLaren’s site on my blog… over looking I also have Chuck Missler and J. Vernon McGee… but for the Brian link I am… “not saved”, “promoting heretics”, “using bad judgment”, ” a confused individual”, “a pedophile”…. I could go on.
recently I tried to explain to some JM followers the error in a Al Mohler/Tony Jones interview where Russel Moore interviewed for Al… in it Moore talked over Tony many times and never really listened to Tony… Moore then told everyone what all emergents think… and then lied about Tony’s beliefs not letting Tony correct his statements.
As i was pointing out Tony’s position on Truth and was actually fighting for the biblical definition of truth I was told I was a liar, ignorant, a pathetic little man, in need of psychological help… and again I could go on. Then then proceeded to defend Platonist realism and argued that truth needed a qualifier to be more true… they argued that truth is an “abstract thought” which is the core and foundation of the philosophical argument of “absolute truth”… I wont go into it but absolute truth is not a biblical definition of truth it is Platonist dualism/realism which is a form of Gnosticism. The phrase itself was developed in the nineteenth century…
In the end they agreed with me yet somehow twisted it all to be that I was still wrong. which is consistent to followers of JM.
I see the fruit of Lordship Salvation is not good as it develops a certain arrogance and pride that make that person believe they are superior Christians than other who profess belief in Jesus.
I have been a victim of this “hate”… it is real and it is sick.
be blessed,
iggy
It may not make a difference to someone like Clearly; but Tony didn’t say the world aloud (or even write the word) in this instance. He wrote in a blogpost, “I think the Bible is a f***ing scary book (pardon my French, but that’s the only way I know how to convey how strongly I feel about this).”
How did we get on whether the use of the swear word f**k is acceptable or not?
Is that really a question being debated here, and what does that have to do with a supposed pot-smoking church? It is completely the Fort Wayne argument. How do these tangents happen?
I do appreciate the update on the pot-lingo in the post in question. Now if only that hip, trendy editor would explain what the digits “411″ means…
Julie,
I think the turn occurred when the support of pot-smoking was likened to using the f-word…
I think that nobody here is willing to defend the referenced church’s pot-smoking, so in absence of a disagreement another was found to take its place.
Really i don’t see any relevance to one with the other…
One is a none Christian church who smoke pot as part of their religion…
the other is the on going debate whether certain words are off limits to Christians and are sinful…
Though i wonder if God so sees it that way why he would have chosen men who sin all over the place to be his representatives in both the OT and NT… it is as if God took care of the sin issue and we are more focused on turning Christianity into a sin management religion than of the story of God’s great and grand love and redemption.
Be Blessed,
iggy
Well, all the potheads I knew in art school used the f-word a lot. Perhaps there is a connection.
They also slept a lot.
Another connection.
The part I love about this is when you click on the article, the title at the top of the window says, “L.A. Minister Cites Religious Protection in Defense of Marijuana Use at Christian Research Net”
LOL I knew people on that site were on somethin!