What an odd article. He also seems to think that I suggested that he was stupid, which I went out of the way not to say. Stupid is a completely different ballpark that ignorant. The continued … well … ignorance on what a “fake book” actually is, though, is rather sad.

As for the example he gives with the minister whose church voted him out for suggesting songs to the worship team, I would say there is probably a whole lot more to that story (there always is) that has nothing to do with a riff with (apparently) the worship minister.

As for what this has to do with a “fake book”, it boggles the mind…

And then, as the coup de grace, he shares a personal story about how God had chosen him to minister at a funeral and be the example of how to please God as opposed to the “touchy-feely” crowd who God vehemently disapproves of. Boy how we all wish we could somehow be in the Spiritually popular crowd, but alas, we are outcasts.

Also, how one can pass judgement on all worship teams like he does is simply astounding. Sure there are some prima donnas in churches, there probably were in Bach’s day as well. That doesn’t make that the norm.

I’ve notice a person can’t criticize Ingrid elsehwere without her saying she’s being attacked. But you can’t criticize her views on her own site because she’ll make sure those comments never see the light of day, saying it’s her blog and she decides what will and will not be posted. Even if that means she has to pull her own posts and pretend she never wrote something that could come back to bite her.

That’s just not being honest.

I would agree that some things that Ingrid identifies as “rabid pitbulls” are not. I also think that you and I probably have a different perspective on which things are puppies and which things are rabid pitbulls.

The only dog that ever tried to bite me was small and innocent looking. At least I think he was innocent-looking; he had so much hair covering his face it was difficult to tell just what kind of expression was there.

I’m reading a book right now (which I won’t identify because I don’t want this thread to get off-track) which I would describe as “a snake pretending to be a cuddly, purring kitten.”

I do not want to be seen as an “Ingrid-defender.” Even if I agreed with her in every way, I don’t think that being a people-follower is wise. Unfortunately it is practically impossible to discuss issues here and take the same or similar viewpoint as Ingrid or Ken without folks assuming that you’re defending everything about them.

Being able to discuss issues instead of people is one of the biggest challenges this site faces.

I prefer including kids (as they are able) in my evaluation (gradually, over time, including their evaluation, as well) of modern media.

As a counterpoint, I’ve found Slice and C?N to be a wealth of information on media that is appropriate for families to address by seeing which things:

a) A number of Christians support and find useful in teaching; and
b) Are singled out for criticism by Slice/C?N

Just with the example at hand (High School Musical), I found something I was completely comfortable with allowing my kids to watch and that a) decent lessons could be garnered; and b) I could better relate to and understand the current high school culture (in which my kids live).

First of all, which is better, to be warned ahead of time about something, or to try to undo the damage afterwards?

Secondly, my sense of responsibility towards kids doesn’t stop with my own. To think otherwise is, to me, very selfish. If I were in a Mom’s and tots group at a playground, and I saw a rabid-looking dog running up to the playground, what kind of Christian would I be if I took my child and quietly left without warning the other moms and their children?

I can’t close my eyes to what I see happening with kids I have been close to. I have friends whose kids are being influenced by all kinds of things, because of the “spiritual” things they are learning at church and through the internet and through popular books.

The stories I could share are not for the most part “kids who are getting into drugs, premarital sex” etc. They are stories of kids who have seemed to have a heart’s desire towards things of God who still think that they are following hard after God. But they’re changing one kind of “spirituality” for another.

They’re questioning:

the innerrancy of scripture

“Are abortion and homosexuality really unacceptable?”

“I am spiritually mature, an adult, therefore I can take in whatever entertainment rubbish I want to – it can’t touch me. I need to be part of the world.”

“It’s more important to share “my story” than the gospel. Outright sharing of the gospel is “beating someone over the head.”

What “good and spiritual” things can I learn from this pagan religious practice?

Let me sum it up this way: “Spirituality” is being renamed. Personalities are being followed more than God’s Word. The focus is on one’s inner journey/spirituality, not on God’s Word and knowing God Himself as He is presented in that Word. And there’s a sense of unity provided through the internet where people can discuss their journeys into what they think is a deeper relationship with God and a superior understanding of “spirituality.”

Many parents are quite ignorant about the “Christian” issues their children are facing when they visit a friend’s church, when they go to a Christian college, or even within their own youth group. They’re unaware of how their kids are being influenced by popular books such as “Generous Orthodoxy.”

It’s amazing how little time it takes from hearing about issues on CRN and Slice to seeing kids who are being personally drawn to follow whatever is being brought up.

As long as pastors are spreading their teaching through the media, Christians need to be made aware of it, if they care about the young people around them.

I have some issues with how Ingrid goes about things sometimes – how often, I don’t know, because I don’t keep up with everything on her site. I believe that there is a place for warning people about what is going on in the church. Whoever finds themselves in that position will be criticized, no matter how loving they are and no matter how careful they are in their criticism.

I don’t know if Ingrid cries over what is happening to young people. But if she does, what good would it do for her to announce it to the world? If she said, “I spent hours crying before I wrote this post,” she would be mocked.

As far as fasting, fasting isn’t something you’re supposed to tell other people that you’re doing.

I do believe that she is sincerely grieved over what is happening in churches and specifically grieved over how this affects young people.

I know that I grieve over what is happening to specific kids I know, and I wonder what my responsibility is to them. I hate deception, and it’s deception that is leading many kids into a false spirituality.