So you are sending some cash to Ted??

If I’m not mistaken, Ted confessed and asked forgiveness. If Jesus treated Ingrid the way she treated Ted … she’d be out of luck.

Thankfully, whether or not Ingrid forgives him bears no consequence for his standing with God. For people who should be aiming to imitate and learn from Christ, we sure don’t seem to pay very much attention to the parables he told.

Matthew 18:21-35
Read it … and be humbled …

In this case, and I find myself amazed that I am doing so, I must agree with Ingrid. It is one thing to ask for and receive forgiveness. It is another thing altogether to send out a fundraising letter asking others to support you as you seek to further your education. I think Ingrid’s post decries this more than anything else. I think that Haggard’s attempt to ask others to take care of his family is just a step above disgraceful. He should do what he can to to provide for them even if it means he has to forego his educational pursuits for the time being.

I have no problem forgivng Haggard (although I do find it hard to believe that 3 weeks in therapy – no matter how intensive – has completely cured him of his homosexual desires). What I find unforgivable (until he repents of this) is the kind of fundraising attempts that he employs in his letter that tell would-be supporters that their rewards will be great in heaven if they send him a few bucks.

Of course, I could be wrong.

Ingrid may very well be kicking a man while he is down. She has done it before. And her post has a stridency to it that is very un-Christlike. But I guess one issue this raises for me has to do with true repentance and facing the consequences of our sinfulness.

Haggard’s confession reminds me a little of other preachers who have fallen and subsequently tried to mitigate the consequences of their behaviors by appealing to the grace of God. That is, since God has forgiven me, you need to do the same, and this basically means there should be few, if any, consequences for the betrayal of my pastoral office.

Now unlike some, Bakker and Swaggert come to mind, Haggard actually stepped down from his pulpit. He did go through some therapy, and he has had experienced some serious repurcussions from his sin. But even so, I wonder if Bonhoeffer’s understanding of “cheap grace” comes into play here.

Now please understand, I don’t know exactly what it is I am trying to say, and I do not want to mitigate the efficacy of God’s grace, but this is what I am pondering at this moment.

Chris

Ted Haggard should go out, get a job and study part-time like any other person. To that extent, Ingrid is correct. However, the TONE of her article, and the very fact she felt it appropriate to post it is very wrong and she needs to repent.

Well, in places like Ingrid’s church, people DO confess their “sins.”

But most of their confessed sins involve being too soft on the Emergents, Purpose Driven churches, gays, lesbians, bi-sexuals, transsexuals, feminists, Democrats, liberals, etc. etc.

Brother Haggard may have repented of some of his personal sins, but he obviously hasn’t realized he needs to repent of the entire system he was in. The whole sordid mess did damage to the cause of Christ, and this latest fundraising thing just confirms to the world that Christianity is a scam.

But when it comes to spreading the news of something like this, less is more. And Ingrid’s dramatic “I don’t usually use bold letters but I’m going to break my own rules” because she is so mad she can’t help it, is melodramatic and draws attention to herself. Her grandfather did this and that and everything else she writes draws attention to herself and presents the picture that her righteousness has been so offended by this she cannot control her anger, and of course God is with her.

Let us be grateful to God that the secular press will continue to feed our insatiable appetite for Christian dirt on anyone and everyone they can. And showing our outrage will substatiate how incredibly righteous we are, and we thank all the secular papers for allowing us to link to them. These are the same papers that traffic alcohol, abortion clinics, immoral movies, xxx places, and generally are no friend to our Christ.

But in these cases where they provide a needed service for gossip and dirt, we humbly thank you.

And it is so sweet to provide a comment section so that after reading a personal tirade against these reports and providing a family backdrop of comparison, everyone can say “You are soooo right”. And the lemmings can only dream of one day ascending to the rarified air of the Emerald City of BlogThronedom, where the dirt is carried up into the inner sanctdom, excitedly sifted through, packaged, and sent down the mountain to be served to the serfs complete with the monarch’s editorial garnish. And once you get the subject used to eating dirt, nothing else will satisfy.

Phil.4:8 – Finally brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of godd report, if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

And what came to my mind is that if Mr. Haggard is a believer, one day his presence in heaven will redound to the glory of the grace of God. Come to think of it, so will all of us who should never be there!

DT – And with that we all agree. You have missed the point again. Is it on purpose?

I can’t believe I’m about to type these words….I agree with Ingrid. I’m going to school and I’m not sending out letters asking strangers to support me. While her post is “rantish” it is her blog. I mean if one of us posted this on our own personal blog (See David Cho’s post about the SBC’s new courses for women) I doubt any of us would have even noted it.
I don’t ever remember hearing Haggard repent. I remember him getting caught and that’s it. I’m not saying we should castigate him. I am saying what he did with this letter is dumb.
I know what it’s like to have zero money and go to school b/c you believe that is what God called you to do. I know what it’s like to wonder, “OK God, which bill am I not going to pay on time this month.”
Maybe it would do Haggard some good to learn some of those life lessons.
Ok, I’m off to pray with my apostate, new evangelical, how did DT put it?…spiritual deficient church leaders church leaders before the service today.

Joe is right.

When I was getting my masters degree I was working 50 hours a week and taking 8 to 10 units of course work at the same time. I never asked anyone for a penny so that I could ‘quit’ my job and only do school.

If Ted needs money its because he doesn’t have a real job. I find it hard to believe that no one will employ him. He basically wants to be a welfare case and not have to work hard like the rest of us.

I understand what Haggard has done is inappropriate, but I see a desperate, hurting guy

You’re probably right, but regardless of what state he’s in, to use his ministry supporters to fund his personal reinvention is a public disgrace – not a private indiscretion. If it is all true as reported, he needs to be called out for it publicly.

I can understand people’s disagreement with the tone Ingrid uses, but if there’s truth behind what she’s saying for once, then can’t we cut her some slack?! Besides, the post is misleading and sensationalized (something Ingrid is often called out for), it is nothing to do with him confessing sin – it is to do with him swindling honest, caring supporters of their hard earned money for personal purposes.

David – very funny.

I’m going with #1 and #2 !

Talk about doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

The more I read of Ingrid, the more of a caricature she becomes. More and more I think of her as the new Church Lady–except it’s not funny!

While there are many things on which she and I can agree, I can’t help but get the impression that with her comes a type of piety that suggests misery = holiness.

If you can enjoy your chuch’s family night with a comedian who is a Christian, then you’re probably a false convert who hasn’t spent enough time in sackcloth and ashes over the millions of lives lost to abortion.