Chris P.,

I’m confused by your comment? What does that mean? Is it that by nicely teaching heresy, you’re really being malicious?

If so, I beg to differ. Words mean precise things, and we should be careful how we use them. (C.S. Lewis has a really good quote on this… but it is currently escaping me.) Heresy is heresy, and malice is malice. They aren’t the same thing.

And it makes me sad that people use the flaws in their opponents to justify their own boorish behavior. “Yeah, but the *real* [sin we're committing] is [fill in the blank]” is a common refrain amongst those who wish to deflect rightful criticism. Whatever flaws your opponents have, they *never* justify sin in your life. End of story. Period.

And what if Jim is right? What if this site is nothing more than a bunch of jerks? Does that justify being a jerk? Nope. It just means the whole lot of you, (CRN.info, CRN, Hope, Team Pyro) are a bunch of inconsiderate individuals.

One other thing I wanted to mention. Do you realize the implications of calling Hope in Laodicea “Heil?” I trust that you don’t mean anything by it and that it was accidental. If you did mean something by it, that’s really offensive, and confirming of Jim’s thesis.

And Jim from Old Truth, I don’t know if you read the comments here, but it’s a breath of fresh air that I can submit comments calling out the men who run this site. I agree with many of the substantive points you and your pals make, but the fact that some of my comments have been censored, just because they voice dissent, is disheartening. I think dissent is a wonderful thing. It makes us better because we are all flawed.

I just get the sense that you and Ingrid are afraid of something that these men aren’t.

What are you scared of?

Yea, M.G., the HeIL thing is a little funny but probably should be revised. I am German “Frueh” (early) so I can take a German joke but some might take offense. See, Ingrid and I are part of the super race! My brother lives outside Munich, he’ll let me know when the Fourth Reich begins!

You can’t even make the heil sign or you will be arrested. That’s good too.

As a “conservative” (whatever that means) I think the concept of a discernment “blog” to be a legitimate exercise in discernment for the Body of Christ. Many of these blogs, including SOL, have been of great benefit to me. On the other hand I think some of these blogs have gotten very shrill of late and that CRN.Info’s writers have pointed out many legitimate concerns. Also, I, for one, greatly appreciate the open forum provided here. However, as a “guest” here (vs an overt sympathizer), I will have to say that CRN.Info can be defined as a discernment site on EXACTLY the same order as SOL, OT and Pyro, etc. (except coming from the opposite end of the theological spectrum), and in this regard, are in fact, guilty of the pot calling the kettle black no matter how politely the suet is being thrown. Except in my case, I reiterate that the concept of the watchblog is a legitimate and beneficial vehicle for discernment within the body, so I think both camps provide a needed service.

Proverbs 11:14- Where there is no guidance the people fall, But in abundance of counselors there is victory.

When I look at scriptures I find heresy within the Body being dealt with very forcefully, gloves off and in-your-face confrontation, whether it be Jesus, Paul, Peter, James or Jude. On the other hand, we are told in no uncertain terms how we are to deal with one another (i.e., in kindness, tenderness, mercy, grace and love) within the body. So the definative crisis for me comes in defining “what is heresy” and who is a sheep in wolves clothing vs. a “searching” true believer.

I do have a question. re: Where have you seen anything close to that level of malice on CRN.infoWhy is it necessary to refer to John MacArthur as Johnny Mac?

I personally have never referred to him as such, or anyone else. That might be a little benign, wouldn’t you think, Keith? Not much malice there, I’ve seen worse here.

Well, I just commented over at SOL 3.0. I wonder if it will get up. If not, here it is

I thought Jim’s site was extremely funny and I’m a contributor at that “hate site.” Ingrid, you and I have had civil discourse over you crediting something to my pastor that was inaccurate. I’m not really sure that I hold to some of the beliefs about the Bible and truth that have been attributed to me here but hey, misrepresentation and “hate” can go both ways, huh?

Note that I have a vote, but I don’t like “HeIL.” If it means something perfectly innocent, please correct me.

Which has a better chance of happening? My comment getting up or ND winning a football game before it gets to the Service Academies?

“I think CRN.Info has pointed out legitimate fallacies within the watchdog camp. ”

and vice versa.

Man, you leave for a haircut and a huge discussion breaks out. Plus, Joe sneaks in a bash against ND. Just can’t leave you guys alone.

I thought the parody was pretty funny. I only regret that I am not enough of a presence to get my own Wizard of Oz name. Oh well, maybe next time.

Rick: “But even when agreed heresy is being taught, name calling, demeaning hyperbole, and just plain personal meaness is counter productive.”

Agreed.

Rick: “Now do not forget that these sites jump on any moral failure of their enemies and will immediately link to the salacious details in the newspapers, so their tone goes way beyond heresy.”

Agreed.

This is boring. We agree.

Rick: “Careful, HJ, you are dangerously close to one of my posts, and I’ve done my homework. Your wife provided me with a huge amount of material! ”

Really? My wife is a model of perfect submissness and would never even talk with another man without my permission much less give away any personal information.

Yeah, right. So what dirt did she dish? My momentary lapse into Calvinism? Hey, I was temporarily blinded by the “scholarship” and credentials of their illuminati. OK!?! It happens.

As for HeIL, well, Chris L tends to be the most level headed of us. He tossed out the term watch poodle and has called me into line several times, if its over the line and if he meant it in that way I’m sure he’ll address that issue head on.

OK – called to the carpet.

I missed the German reference in “heil”, but went for the resemblence of I and L – not the everlasting one, but the earthly one we create when we start performing unnecessary surgery on the Body.

HIL just doesn’t have a ring to it, so perhaps it should be HILl (as in choosing the wrong HILl to die on….)

Maybe Joe’s right, though, and SoL 3.0 is easier in the long run.

As for John MacArthur and “Johnnie Mac”, I’ve seen his own supporters call him that, along with JMac and some other abbreviations. For me, it was mostly because I spelled his last name wrong a few times and “Johnnie Mac” is a whole lot easier to remember.

Keith,

I will be honest enough to admit I call Johnny Mac that because I really do not have much respect for him… which comes out of how I am and have been treated by JM supporters. Most the time I will use John MacArthur once the JM for short hand and mean nothing of it… but as Chris L. stated I have seen his supporters refer to him that way… so if I am doing it out of lack of respect… (Not necessarily malice as I do not wish him ill will) the lack of respect is more out of that his supporters have called me worse that that and that JM is just a mere man…

I also see his teaching on Lordship salvation more easy believism that many of the people he attacks and cuts against God’s word where Jesus stated, Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!

So just because one makes Jesus “Lord” of their life… does not mean that makes them instantly “saved”. I say Jesus must BE your very life…

Yet, I have been called everything in the book… because I refuse to bow to a man’s teaching.

Be Blessed,
iggy

Tyler,

You are correct that my contraction was out of line. And, per the most recent post, we do need to be concerned that we do not fall into scorn and contempt…

I read a lot of wisdom into what Tyler has written above. I enjoyed the month where no on used personal names. I am not suggesting you cannot ever “call some one out” or use their name, but it has seemed a little more heightened in the last month.

Granted, I do not read everything here and I not privy to every single discussion. Mine is a casual observation. I think for the most part, you boys are doing just fine. Openess, honesty, and accountablity are what makes this site agreeable. Rooting it in the Word of God are what makes it right.

See there…I have some good in me…no, wait. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. (Rom 7:18) Crud! I’m back to square one.

Seriously Tim. I never could get the pre-mill/Left Behind thing to work out in my feeble mind. Busting up Daniel’s 70 weeks for starters…just can’t get there.

Of course, the down side is: who ever heard of an action-packed, AMILL thriller!? We got nothin’! No rapture. No “two witnesses.” No Anti-Christ (which incidently is NOT Henry Kissinger, the guy in the “Left Behind” series, OR Ronald Reagan because value of the letters in his name total 666. Personally…IF there is one–it’s gotta be Bill Gates!) We also got no really cool battle scene at the end.

Some of us may believe Amill is a more correct interpretation…but it sure stinks on ice for action and thrills at the box office.

OK, now you guys sound like Scientologists!