As far as I know, I am not related to Amy Terrell. There is probably some connection way back, but not within a couple of generations in each direction. I did have one cousin (Robert Terrell usually called Bobby) whose family I do not know. He was about 10 or so years older then me, so we did not have much contact. I do not know the name o fthe woamn he marrried, or if he had any daughters or if he had sons who married. Bobby died several years ago at the age of c.58. Liver cancer, I think.

I think that the example you gave misses a fine point. Even Calvin stated that the “eternal election” was the plan that God had before anything existed. (besides God Himself and Jesus who was in the Father)

Since the love and will of God, and the sacrifice of Christ are the same for the two men in question, it must be something other than God’s love or will or Christ’s sacrfice that made the difference.

Now, this is true, yet the difference is that the plan and mystery that is Christ was reveal in Jesus… as He was incarnated lived, crucified, died, and then rose the third day… that was the “eternal election” for it was Jesus God foreknew and those who would see this “Mystery” who is Christ would then need to respond….

God is the initiator of Salvation, and man is the responder. Calvin speaks of God having “free will” in his commentary on Ephesians, yet, we being in His Image also have “free will” otherwise we cannot believe and receive, (agreed that this is by faith which is a gift of God) yet, in that most miss free will comes into play as we respond… but more so as we freely love God.

If we were free before the fall, then though free placed under a covenant with death, we under that covenant had to play the part to honor that.. so we placed our free will under bondage.

Now, we are the captives set free as Jesus died to put to death sin (Romans 6:6-7) and we who respond to this salvation that was from all eternity, as the Plan was always the Mystery of Jesus… (Romans 16:25-27) For as it states in Ephesians 1: 3-12

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will–
to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment–to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

I hope that one can notice that the focus is all on Jesus and very little on “us” other than “he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,” The purpose was and is Jesus…and it was “to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment-” Though eternal…it was not until Jesus was reveal as the mystery it came into effect.

Be Blessed,
iggy

Some posts back, it was implied that I was condescending and suffering from doctrinal eliteism. In as much as I was comping last night and had some time to ponder, it occured to me why I may be percieved as such. Rick (I think) made the accusation and has quotesd me as saying, “When I describe Arminian theology I know what I am talking about.” Thatw as not intended as an arrogant statement such as, “Hey, I’ve been to BIble school, I know everything.” As I thought on these things this morning, it occurred to me that you might not realize that the two schools I attended were both quite arminian. They only non-Arminian point they held to tightly was “eternal security.” They believed General Redemption and allowed some latitude ont he other three points. My reason for writing that line was this: I had been accused of building a straw man. My response was that O was raised and trained as an Arminain, or at least a free-willer, so I do know what I am talking about. That’s not a boast, its just a fact based on my experience.

As to Grace making distinctions:

Imagine two men: Jim-Bob and Billy-boy: Free-will religion, as I experienced it, would say that God loves both equally, is equally desirous of their salvation, that Crist died equally for both men. (For now, I’ll leave off talking about the Holy Spirit.) In the end, only Billy-Bob is saved. Npw, when looking for a reason for different outcomes, we can exclude all the causes that are the same. We must look for what is differnt in the two cases if we are to discover what made the difference in the outcome.

Since the love and will of God, and the sacrifice of Christ are the same for the two men in question, it must be something other than God’s love or will or Christ’s sacrfice that made the difference.

Now. most of those around whom I was raised, would agree with that, for they truly beleive it is the free-will decision of sinners that determined the final outcome of God’s plan of salvation. It is not God’s will the determines the outcome, it is man’s; or so they say.

But that runs contrary to what the Scripture says concerning God’s grace and mercy: it is not of him that will or him that runs, ut God, who shows mercy.

That is the meaning of the four questions I put forth earlier.

I am going back to camp. Probably not near computer until Friday.

ttfn

God = 3

Everyone else = disqualified

Everyone else = 0

I agree it was God’s plan of salvation that “those” God would create would respond. God predestined those “in Christ” to be comformed to His image.

It is the Plan that is eternal and Christ that is eternal.

In that according to thsi plan those who believe and receive are saved by this eternal Gospel that is the mystery revealed, Jesus Christ.

Be Blessed,
iggy