Well, one of my daughter’s papers came home yesterday with a jack-o-lantern on it, which made me realize that October is upon it, and it is almost the season for ODM’s to start howling about Halloween and castigating Christians who dare to allow their children to trick-or-treat.
So, in advance of the festivities, I though perhaps we could have a little contest to see which of our astute readers can guess the number of articles from the following ODM sites reference the “evils” of Halloween during the month of October:
- CR?N
- AM
- Old “Truth”
- TeamPyro
- SoL 3.0
In scoring, an article only counts once, even if it is posted on two or more of the above sites. Additionally, only your first guess counts, and the earliest correct guess will win. If there is somehow a tie, it will be broken with the following tie-breaker question – of the articles which address Halloween, how many will attempt to tie the ECM into the same article?
The winner of this contest will be able to submit to me an article for guest publication on CRN.info whose only qualification is that it must meet publishing standards (no coarse language, overt blasphemy, etc.). If the winner is one of the writers at CRN, he or she may pass the prize to a designee of their choice…
72 Comments(+Add)
9 articles
1 tie in.
12 articles
2 tie in
I’m gonna go with 7 articles and 4 tie-ins.
Based on todays article at CRN about Brad Pitt and the EC I’m going to say that CRN will take the lead on the Halloween Heretic Hunting articles.
6 articles
6 tie in
and for the bonus,
6 will reference this post.
I think that is fitting for Halloween.
Be Blessed,
iggy
I’ll say 23
I’ll say 20, with at least five tie-ins.
I think everyone is shooting low. There are 28 days left in October, and we’re talking about 4 ODM sites here, so I’m going to say:
35
That might still be low. CR?N has been known to post 4 articles about the same thing on one day.
Also how are we counting linked articles?
I’ll go with 26 with 3 ties in to the Emerging Church
And for bonus points I’ll say three use the term “man centered”
17
I don’t think Christians have any business celebrating Halloween and I really try to see both sides of every argument. Let’s see . . . how do we justify celebrating death, darkness, blood, gore, etc? Oh wait it’s our freedom in Christ. Sorry lost my liberty, er license there for a minute.
5, 4, 3, 2, 1 . . . do you Celebrate Christmas, John?
Just anticipating . . . .
Houston John.
“how do we justify celebrating death, darkness, blood, gore, etc”
First off as a Christian we do this all the time!
I celebrate Jesus’ crucifixion, (gore) His blood (blood) and death (Jesus death) and His burial (darkness).
In that I walk IN His freedom…
Interestingly HJ, Jesus celebrated Passover which was the prophecy pointing to all this blood, death, gore and darkness…
Matthew 26:18 …The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.’”
So, I cannot take your comment as fully true. Do I think one should celebrate evil? I wonder if the better question is why we do not redeem the day from evil…
My kids are dressing up… one is the evil Spider-man (A superhero that fights evil) and the other will be a pony…
I think that one can have fun and not condone evil… and it not be a license… as you stated… tell me how my child is being immoral by being a pony or a superhero and getting some candy?
If they were out sacrificing cats to Satan, you might have a point…
Be Blessed,
iggy
Iggy,
Come on !!???!!! WOW. I CANNOT believe you equated celebrating the blood of Jesus (i.e., holy communion) with the world’s visiceral celebration of blood and gore associated with human dismemberment that is celebrated at Halloween.
Iggy, I usually appreciate your slant on things, but my brother, that was just . . . well . . .VERY ill-thought out. Perhaps you may want to revisit that analogy?
So because I celebrate the precious blood shed by Jesus I am free to celebrate the blood shed by Freddy Krueger or Jason, et. al?
Again, WOW.
HJ-
Did you see the Passion of the Christ? Kinda gory.
Monster stories are always great teachable spots, and most of my favorite movies, stories, music etc. are based around monsters and spooky things, so I enjoy Halloween a great deal. But growing up I wasn’t allowed to celebrate it (and as a teen adopted that it’s satans holiday viewpoint for myself), and I can see how if you want to make it an evil holiday, it’s not that hard to do so, but making it a neutral or even constructive holiday isn’t that hard either. I’m into redeeming things so I enjoy it.
Iggy: “I wonder if the better question is why we do not redeem the day from evil…”
Well, perhaps because here is nothing to redeem. There is no correlation within Christiandom to conscript any of the pagan practices with Halloween like there is for Christmas or Easter.
Is it ok for your Children to participate in Ramadan? That would be an apple to apple comparison. How would you “redeem” that holiday period? But the most important question for both is “why” would you even want to?
Most of the protestant world doesn’t have a good day to celebrate those we’ve lost and heroes of the faith who are no longer with us, so with All Saints Day sounding too catholic for many (not saying I say that, but I know people who freak out at even the slightest hint of catholocism) I think Halloween is the best holiday to redeem for that purpose.
And about 99% of monster stories are morality plays that prove to be some great teachable moments, so while everyone is thinking about monsters it can prove to be a good common meditation to use. That’s another redeemable aspect.
Matt:
“HJ-Did you see the Passion of the Christ? Kinda gory.”
Well yes I did, but I have to agree with the ODM’s that it was basically a Catholic propaganda film. But, be that as it may, I did not go out afterwards and throw fake blood and gouged skin all over myself and place my self in chains and walk down the street to celebrate it and have fun.
The World celebrates the vicarious thrill and “fun” of experiencing human gore via these bloody presentation in film or makeup at Halloween, etc.
Again gentlemen, I am appalled, all joking aside, that you are using Christ’s passion to justify this. I don’t “celebrate” the gore of Calvary, much less use it to condone Hollywood/Halloween guts and gore. This reasoning is insane.
It’s OK with you to get a thrill and be entertained by even the imaginary death of someone and the more inventive the torture and resulting gore the better? And then to relate this as being on the order of Christ’s passion?
WOW.
Kevin I – And about 99% of monster stories are morality plays that prove to be some great teachable moments, so while everyone is thinking about monsters it can prove to be a good common meditation to use.
“Yes kids . . . and don’t forget the primary lesson we learned from Jason which is: NEVER have premaritial sex when there is a serial killer on the loose”.
The primary lesson of slaher movies is about inescapable judgement. The running theme is that even when you commit an evil/sin that nobody see or you don’t get caught, they still have consequences. The majority of slasher stories, minus a good deal of the copy-cat explotation films, have the slashers acting as the consquence that the person thought they avoided. If the person themself didn’t bring the consquence on themselves it’s usually an image of brining this evil/sin into the town, community etc.
I’m actually always suprised when extremly conservative fundemntalists hate slasher movies, it’s all about judgement and sin.
Many churches hold “harvest festivals” in their church so that kids don’t celebrate Halloween.
I think “Harvest Festival” sounds quite pagan. Celebrating the harvest?
I always found that ironic.
OK, I hated the Passion of The Christ Movie. Hated it on 100 levels. HJ, I do think you need to do a little honest research into how we came to Halloween as we have it today.
ummm….halloween doesn’t have to be about gore, etc.
sometimes it’s just about kids pretending to be their favorite hero, etc. and getting some candy.
Adults celebrate halloween more than kids now. It’s an excuse to let down, not take yourself too seriously and have some fun.
AND…there is a christianization of it. Halloween…All Hallows Eve…All Saints…
I think what matters is what you do with the day in your observances…but “to the crooked, all things appear crooked”.
My church plant utilized the day for our home communities to reach out to the neighborhoods they were based in. A big open garage, well lit, games in the yard and burgers/hotdogs on the grill. It was a great way to connect with our neighbors, love on their kids, start relationships, build credibility AND…it grew our church as we invited people into relationship with Jesus.
There was no talk of demons, gore, etc. etc. etc.
THAT…is a way to redeem it.
I’m very wary when anyone says that God can’t use something.
I loved the Passion, but I find it oddly ironic that so many anti-Catholic protestants did too. That movie was as Catholic as the popemobile is a sweet ride.
btw,
RE: Adults celebrate halloween more than kids now. It’s an excuse to let down, not take yourself too seriously and have some fun.
Letting down, not taking oneself too seriously…lots of Christians could do with a taste of that…
My kids dressed as Bible characters. That’s right, me Rick, fundamentalist Rick, my kids went around the block. We gave out candy and tracts at our house.
I think there are many more important issues than Halloween, whcih has lost any druid understandings over the years. I think my 3 year old grandson will go this year, but I wll give you my word, if I catch him worshiping the devil as he goes from house to house I will immediately put a stop to it!
Hey…..what I am, chopped liver?
Mike, liver with onions? OK, now this is meant as a joke, really. This halloween I’m going as brother Ken, a little scary, but I think I can pull it off!
Â
BTW Mike, you are going to have to come up with much more harsh and unkind name calling before you are added. At present, you are a compromiser! Sorry…
I admit to liking free candy.
HJ,
Come on man.. I took your statement and riffed a bit about Jesus… and you are against that? LOL! I mean as a blanked statement you are far off…
There is a big difference in Freddy Krueger and Jesus Christ…
Yet, YHWH did tell the Hebrews to slaughter men, women and children… as often is pointed out by the ODM’s.
So, for bloodshed and mayhem… I think God tops all…
Now, a bit on that Freddy Krueger guy… he has nothing on this Angel…
Rev 14: 19-20
Again, to just say we as Christians need to stay away from blood and gore… misses the point. Now, we are not to participate in evil… yet again how is my daughter while dressed as a pony, or my son dresses as his favorite superhero going to the mall and getting candy… evil?
Now this comment really gets me…
LOL!
I am quoting you quoting me… so don’t get confused here.
I think that we have lost this Holiday as it was once about honoring the saints that have gone before us… instead we got all anti catholic and lost this time to honor our brothers and sisters… The reason it was and is Halloween, is that it is the Holy Day before All Saints Day. So, before you write off Halloween to the satanists… it is already ours.
Also, to equate this religious holiday which has really lost it’s paganist roots even as Christmas has… both have even lost their Christian roots if you ask me and turned to commercialism. If there is an evil “religious” system it is serving Manna… But to equate it with the Islamic holiday is a bit absurd…
Again, all days are God’s and even the feasts and holidays that God set out in the OT are no longer needed… so no day is more holy than the next… and since as Paul states there is no God but God alone… we are no turning any day over to a false God. One does not even exist!
I see that some are giving more power to Satan than to God… and in fear, honor Satan more than God. I stand on Jesus and the freedom that is in Christ in Faith… If you see it as a sin for you to participate then don’t it is a sin to you… but do not try to make me walk in lesser faith.
Unless you can show me without a doubt that dressing my children as a pony and a superhero and taking them out to get candy… then we are done…
Be Blessed,
iggy
Iggy,
Do you allow your children to say “trick or treat”?
Iggy: “Yet, YHWH did tell the Hebrews to slaughter men, women and children… as often is pointed out by the ODM’s.
So, for bloodshed and mayhem… I think God tops all…”
Iggy, what in the name of all that is holy does God’s righteous judgement on deserving sinners have to do with the glorification and celebration of blood, gore, darkness and evil?
This is not our holiday and never was. The comparison to Ramadan was spot on and true to type.
“I stand on Jesus and the freedom that is in Christ in Faith…”
But what fellowship does light have with darkness? Shall we use our freedom for license?
“So, before you write off Halloween to the satanists… it is already ours”
I’m sorry I must have missed that part in Sunday School.
“so no day is more holy than the next… and since as Paul states there is no God but God alone… we are no turning any day over to a false God. One does not even exist!”
1Co 10:19 What do I mean then? That a thing sacrificed to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. 22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? We are not stronger than He, are we?
23 All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.
“Unless you can show me without a doubt that dressing my children as a pony and a superhero and taking them out to get candy… then we are done…”
Well alrighty then we are done. It would certainly take more than my words to pursuade you. How about these?
Eph 5:3 But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9 (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10 trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12 for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. 13 But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light. 14 For this reason it says, “Awake, sleeper, And arise from the dead, And Christ will shine on you.” 15 Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, 16 making the most of your time, because the days are evil. 17 So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
HJ,
I can take time to answer all you questions… but I already did…
You stated:
“how do we justify celebrating death, darkness, blood, gore, etc? ”
I pointed out as Christians we do this already in that we believe in Jesus and you argued against me.
I quoted that their is a lot of violence in scripture… and in some ways it is glorified. In addition, you insist I am wrong?
Every day is the Lords day… we worship Jesus every day… there is not special day for Satan… so you did miss that in Sunday school I guess.
I guess you have forgotten this…
Colossians 2:15-17
And mostly I guess you missed that I stated if it is a “sin” to you then don’t do it… you are free not to do it… as I am free to let my kids say “trick or treat” and yes I know the origins of it… it means nothing nowadays other than “give me candy”.
You give it too much power and thus seem to give Satan glory… I do not give it any power and do not give Satan any glory…
Here is part of the balance you are missing and in this “missing†have made false gods equal with the One God…
1 Corinthians 8: 4So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Now, your insinuations that I partaking in darkness are a bit tiresome… if not insulting.
Be blessed,
iggy
HJ,
Nope you will not peersuade me that Jesus is greater than all things… even Halloween… which is the evening before All Saints day and was considered holy in that it was called All Hallows or Hollowmas by Christians for centuries until we gave it over to the pagans… so if you want to focus on evil i will focus on Jesus.
Be Blessed,
iggy
Iggy: “I am free to let my kids say “trick or treat†and yes I know the origins of it… it means nothing nowadays other than “give me candyâ€.”
OK, Iggy. Since some words don’t mean what they say in your world view, do me a favor and humor me. This year for ALL the kids that come to your door and say “Trick or Treat” say “OK, I’ll take the trick” and then shut the door and go back inside your house and get back with me on Thrusday on just how that went.
Iggy: “You [John] stated: “how do we justify celebrating death, darkness, blood, gore, etc? I pointed out as Christians we do this already in that we believe in Jesus and you argued against me.”
Iggy. I have to say your logic escapes me sometimes. OK let’s take the position that we “celebrate” death, blood and gore because we believe in Jesus and this was a part of His passion. Setting aside the argument that I for one as a Christian don’t meditate on the gory details of Christ’s death in order to get an emotional thrill are you saying that it’s OK to celebrate the death and dismemberment of humans (i.e, obtain vicarious pleasure from the pain and suffering of others) because I “celebrate” it happend to Christ? Because that’s how I’m reading you.
I think that Halloween has long since lost a direct druid connection, most people don’t even know what a druid is. So whether you participate or not is probably a personal conviction in today’s world. I ask no questions for conscience sake. I don’t believe the Snickers was offered to idols!
Iggy: “I quoted that their is a lot of violence in scripture… and in some ways it is glorified. In addition, you insist I am wrong?”
Any violence to man that is “glorified” in scriptures is because it was a righteous judgement of God, other wise it is absolutely condemned. How does that justify receiving pleasure in the secular world from violence done to others (usually innocents) by perverted monsters?
Rick: “So whether you participate or not is probably a personal conviction in today’s world.”
Yep. It’s all up to us. Paul was just smokin’ hemp when he came up with Ephesians 5:11 – Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them” We Christians should slink back into our holes as Christians and forget get about being salt or light in a dark world.
I repent in dust and ashes. Hey, that’s it, I’ll dress as Job this year. Those ickky, pus dripping boils will fit right in! My wife said she would like to go as the Levite’s concubine who was cut up in 12 pieces. That will be very gory. My son said he would do John the Baptit’s head on a platter at the front door. That will be a great treat for the kids. They’ll love it and its ALL in the bible so it has to be OK? Right Iggy?
John the Baptist’s head – that is too funny!
I guess I’ll have to avoid going this year because I don’t want to have weaker brethren stumble.
Here’s an article to whet your appetite. Unfortunately, it’s not from one of the ODM sites. I suppose we could start a pool as to which one will link to it first (ironically, I beat them all!).
Rick:
“I guess I’ll have to avoid going this year because I don’t want to have weaker brethren stumble. ”
Hey, thanks!
“My toes were beginning to hurt”
For the record, I do not allow my children to say, “Trick or Treat.” I do allow them to say, Hi and speak a blessing to the owner of the house. Occassionally this sounds like someone speaking in tongues when my two year old is the one doing the talking. Gary Gilley says that could be bad b/c typically people who speak in tongues don’t believe in a Pre-mil view.
Phil,
No fair trying to seed the pot!
HJ,
I’m not sure that Paul would have considered handing out candy to the neighbor kids as “fruitless deeds of darkness”.
____
What I have always found ironic is (and I’m not implying this is you, HJ) when folks will celebrate Reformation Day on October 31 while simultaneously giving the skunk-eye to Christians who participate on any level with Halloween. It’s like “Hey, we’re willing to celebrate the largest split in church history today (’go team!’) but y’all need to avoid the ‘fruitless deeds of darkness’ of exchanging candy with your neighbors.”
Easter is worse than Halloween.
Rick: “Easter is worse than Halloween”.
Don’t go there Rick. You’re not going to take away my goddess worship. It’s just a fertility egg for Pete’s sake.
Chris L:
“I’m not sure that Paul would have considered handing out candy to the neighbor kids as “fruitless deeds of darknessâ€.
I think he had box seats at the Coliseum too and retented space at the Temple of Diana (for he and his wife of course).
Context. Context. My kindgom for some context around here!
Chris L: ““Hey, we’re willing to celebrate the largest split in church history today (’go team!’) but y’all need to avoid the ‘fruitless deeds of darkness’ of exchanging candy with your neighbors.â€
Well, some people hand out apples so at least they are not fruitless deeds of darkness.
NC “My church plant utilized the day for our home communities to reach out to the neighborhoods they were based in. A big open garage, well lit, games in the yard and burgers/hotdogs on the grill. It was a great way to connect with our neighbors, love on their kids, start relationships, build credibility AND…it grew our church as we invited people into relationship with Jesus.”
There ya go! I think that is a wonderful thing to do!
Kevin I: “I’m actually always suprised when extremly conservative fundemntalists hate slasher movies, it’s all about judgement and sin. ”
Please put a warning label on these types of comments. I mean really, I almost choked to death.
Not an apples-to-apples comparison, I would think, though it brings to mind a comment Rich Mullins made once at a weekend retreat – “the problem with pagans today is that they’re just so shallow into their paganism”.
The Coliseum was all about elevation of man to god and Caesar worship (along with so much live blood and gore that you’re pretty sure most of the ‘actors’ won’t be dusting themselves off, signing a new contract and appearing in next month’s feature), and Diana/Artemis worship was, rather obviously, worshipping another god.
Nice one. That’s my kind of humor (which makes my kids groan).
HJ not to split the thread but since my in-laws are all muslim; could you explain how Halloween and Ramadan compare to one another?
Chris: “HJ not to split the thread but since my in-laws are all muslim; could you explain how Halloween and Ramadan compare to one another?”
Both are pagan holidays.
All observances of days and years and new moons and all the rest are either pagan or the beggarly elements of the law.
Rick:
That’s true Rick but what point are you trying to make? These observances have meaning to those who celebrate them and those who observe 2nd hand.
HJ,
If your conscience is right with God about it and that you are not making weaker brothers stumble in your freedom… the go ahead. Though going as John The “Baptit’s” head sounds rather risque… but as long as it is only his head… LOL!
Hey i am gone for about 3 days… have a good one!
Blessings,
iggy
Okay! I guess…If I’m thinking clearly you seem to be saying that Ramadan and Halloween equate because they both are religious (false) festivals. If that’s accurate I’m left to question whether you have actually witnessed either Ramadan (which is a month long and growing culturally) or Halloween (which has been reduced to one night of kids getting candy).
Quite frankly in my “neck of the woods” it hardly happens anymore. When I was a kid, 20 some years ago (to Rick I’m still a kid), every house handed out candy. Now when I take my kids it’s maybe every 4 or 5 houses. I guess the Pagan worship won’t have the same meaning for my kids that it did for me. LOL
Chris: “Okay! I guess…If I’m thinking clearly you seem to be saying that Ramadan and Halloween equate because they both are religious (false) festivals.”
Correct.
Participating in Halloween is not going to send anyone to hell and for children it’s just great fun and a way to get free candy. But “fun” has become the god of America and an excuse for all sorts of excess and we could all spend many days on that subject. All things might be permitted, but all things are not profitable. The point is given the history of Halloween (started out pagan, took a slight fork with Catholism but NEVER lost its root branch, then came back full to it’s main branch which is what is being observed today) does it glorify God to participate knowing the history and symbolism of its rituals? Why does “fun” trump “truth”?
Go in any supermarket, drug store, etc. and the trappings of Halloween are witches, bats, ghosts, vampires, monsters, etc. sanatized as they may be. Is this what we as Christians should be about? Oh, but we can’t deny our kids the opportunity for fun.
Denial of self is one of the core teachings of Christ. Believe, me it won’t kill you kids to deny them Halloween when so many wholesome alternatives are availble. I don’t think our son suffered any irrepairable emotional damage from not being allowed to participate in Halloween. We explained it too him rationally and took him to wholesome alternatives. Also, our house is one of the most popular on the streets. I go to the local dollar store and buy different things to hand out. Some years it’s children’s bible story books, some years bible coloring books and crayons. The last couple of years we have handed out stuffed animals for “adoption”. I attached a little card explaining how as they have adopted their this little pet, God will adopt and care for those who believe on Him. We have done this for the past 15 years or so. You don’t have to withdraw from the world to be a light to it, but you don’t have to PARTICIPATE on the receiving end of its rituals either.
[[witches, bats, ghosts, vampires, monsters, etc. sanatized as they may be. Is this what we as Christians should be about? Oh, but we can’t deny our kids the opportunity for fun.]]
Well minus the witches, yeah.
Bats are part of God’s creation. We forget God made bats, black cats with glowing eyes, things that go bump in the night and all sorts of other natural, and sometimes fun (I’m sorry, I missed your tirade against fun, just delete that one) spooky things.
Ghost stories and monster stories are always stories of weight. Of life and death, morals and responsibility. They are always stories that have a depth that is rich with Godly connections and stories. Sure it’s important to point out that as Christians ghosts are mereley a fantasy story device and not really people from the beyond, same as we tell stories of dwarves and elves, sea monsters and such without saying they are part of our world.
I lived half my life viewing Halloween as the devil’s holiday, and the other half seeing it as not only a fun holiday, but a redeemable holiday with a lot of merit behind it. It’s not like I was a nonfunctional person when I didn’t celebrate it and it’s not like now that I do I’m somehow a better person, but rather I’m enjoying more oppurtunities in it.
I just don’t understand why people make such a big deal out of it when other Christians either can find it neutral or find merit in it.
And on the flip side you may say, well why do I make a big deal out of it when people find it to be evil or wasteful.
I think that drive in me comes from the fact that I know a lot of Christians (especially children) that take a lot flack for being able to see and enjoy the neutral or redeeming aspects of Halloween.
They think they are somehow sinning in going door to door for candy or hosting a horror film fest, or dressing up as a Dentist and handing out toothbrushes on Halloween (although the 7 year old in me once to lable that off limits…)
That they are somehow less spiritual, somehow less mature when the flat fact is that isn’t the truth, that the enjoying of the neutral and reddeming aspects of Haloween as we know it today just doesn’t act as a barometer of faith no matter how many people want to make it so.
I think that is why I react like I do when I see people trying to peg it as the devil’s holiday, and larger when I see this kind of attacks on the neutral or redeeming aspects of a lot of other things is it can often cause weaker brothers and sisters to stumble with a religious spirit.
I see Halloween as an amoral opportunity for candy replentishment, and there is the real sin!
Kevin, please show me anywhere in Scripture we are commanded, or it is even hinted at that we are to “redeem” any pagan feast, festival or holiday? Is it justifiable, is it beneficial for a Christian to sit through such movies as Saw or Evil Dead 2 just because they might could glean a biblical analogy from it?
Not to be harsh or judgemental, and hopefully in the spirit of brotherly concern, in my understanding of Scripture you are calling evil, good and good, evil and are hyper-rationalizing.
Tell me where in scripture where are ever commanded or hinted at to use electricity in our churches? Or send missionarys out on planes? Or use examples from literature, films or music to help people see God’s truth? Where does it say that we should use a printing press to put words to paper? Where does it say we should use microphones to amplify our voices during singing?
It doesn’t. And I’m not saying all of these things are one-to-one examples (to avoid the misunderstanding that already happened with the gore thread…) but they are examples of God’s people using their creativity and ingenuity, or in some of those case the overt push of the Holy Spirit to do things that aren’t clearly spelled out in scripture.
There are all sorts of useful avenues of ministry the people of God, in their God given creativity and injenuity have been using through the years and redeeming holidays has been one of those.
I’ll use Christmas and Easter as a prime example, no matter how commercialized they become when they roll around in American culture at least, it raises the common meditations on aspects of God’s Word. Weather explicitly through the Bilical events we’ve tied them to, or implicitly through the Biblical morals and practices that survive a lot of the sanitization.
For the less explicit like Valentines Day, Halloween etc. it’s just not at that place in history yet and I think that’s because as a Christian culture we’ve been moving much towards a culture of rejection instead of redemption holistically. But I see lot’s of places who are able to redeem these sorts of holidays and I hope down the road that catches on a bit more. Why waste an oppurtunity? Why harp on the people willing to do the leg work to sue this as either a neutral or reddemable thing? Nobody is asking you to do it, cause like you said this isn’t a universal scriptural call, just the actions of Christians willing to think outside the box to reach out to the world or avenues of teaching within the church.
I’ll ignore the potshot at Evil Dead 2, which happens to be a great flick that believe it or not someone used to point out a spiritual lesson I was to hard-headed to accept in Sunday School.
Kevin, excuse me for taking a pot-shot at Evil Dead 2. What was I thinking?
Kevin,
Totally serious. Are you for real, or are you pulling my chain? You realize your defense of R-rated gore and mayhem movies is so far out on the fringe that its not recognizably Christian don’t you? You know that, right? Do I need to invest my time in answering you (which I will be glad to do) or is this just all a joke, because at this point you do have me going.
I think you’d actually have to look pretty hard into my comments for any defense of R-rated gore or mayhem as positive. I don’t think I mentioned either positivley even once.
I’m actually not a huge fan of gore or mayhem when it is supposed to be celebrated in a film. It’s why I avoid most war movies (where usually the hero is causeing most of the gore and mayhem on human beings) and don’t really try to defend gore-explotaion films (when many horror films moved from fighting and fearing the monster to celebrating the monster as the hero, this mainly happened in tourture films and most modern slasher movies)
If you want to take me saying Evil Dead 2 was a great flick as an endorsement of gore and mayhem against humans I have to say I have a hard time with the handful of scenes in that film that is excessivly gorey against humans, but the majority of that comedy flick is about fighting zombies, demons and monsters.
I think we’re we’re miscommunicating is that when you look at Halloween and horror movies you only see gore and mayhem and I see the other stuff that’s going on. So when I defend Halloween and horror movies you think I’m defending gore. I can see how we miscommunicated and apologize if any of my previous comments wheren’t clear enough.
I’ve been defending stories and Halloween traditions, I didn’t take it down the gore and mayhem road you seem to want to discuss. If you want my opinion on gore and mayhem, it’s this, stories are often gory and bad guys usually commit a good deal of mayhem, the line for me personally with my knowledge of what effects me, is when this gore and mayhem towards human beings is celebrated or perpetrated by the hero of the film (whether explicit in the story of the film, or in how the film is shot like many later horror films are to make you root for the bad guy) that I tend to draw the line, I don’t want to be in a place to cheer on the killer or celebrate the mayhem.
If that sounds like a defense of gore and mayehm that is far out of the reconizably Christian realm, then yeah take me to task on what I just said, but I think you misunderstood the things I’ve said previously.
The only time I was close to joking was when I said I don’t understand why super-fundementalists don’t dig slasher movies I was trying to make light of the similar worldview of being about judgement of sin first.
As one who does not attend the theatre let me list screen sins in order of repugnance to me personally.
1. Sex
2. Foul language
3. Violence.
I am just so stero-typical aren’t I?