which one is it?
Ken Silva posted a great video from Erwin McManus at the 2007 catalyst conference on his site today. McManus does a great job of explaining why we should not be relevant, but the ones who are actually creating the future. We, who have the living God within us, should be the ones that are leading culture, rather than always trying to keep up with it.
Silva and others have always had a hard time with McManus saying that we are the ones who need to create the future or shape culture. Silva writes
God doesn’t “imagine” anything, the Bible clearly says — Whatever the LORD pleases, He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps (Psalm 135:6)… And as far as leading “culture,” this comes from the huge misunderstanding inherent in the man-centered emerging church and the new evangelicalism that the Church is to bring into fruition God’s “dreams” for the earth. The problem created by this false teaching, as we see above, is that God doesn’t have any dreams or goals.
Although, later he writes
As Dr. John MacArthur and others have correctly pointed out its true purpose is for edification. The Body of Christ, the Church universal itself, is to represent Christ as ambassadors in this fallen world. We are to follow His Example to seek and save that which is lost.
So now I am confused on where he stands. In one paragraph he says that God has no dreams or goals. Then in the next paragraph he says we are to fulfill God’s goal to seek and save the lost. So which one is it? Does God have goals and purposes that he has called us to fulfill, or do we serve no purpose in the grand scheme of things?
As for creating the future, I think that Silva really doesn’t have as big an issue with this as he thinks. Every morning he wakes up and writes several articles in an attempt to do just that. You see, Ken sees where the world is heading, and attempts to create a different future by warning those who are potentially headed for destruction. He believes that his websites have the ability to create the future. If Ken really did believe that God did not have goals and dreams for humanity, he should apply his words to his own ministry
“Whatever the Lord desires He brings to pass according His will. Nothing can prevent this.â€
You see, the problem that most reformed watchdoggies are unable to address is this issue. They say God is all sovereign, and nothing can change his plans; that we are unable to create the future. Yet their whole ministry is based on the idea that they are warning people who are potentially going to be swayed by false doctrine. They educate churches and individuals on the impending dangers, so they will not fall into the trap. If you cannot create the future, and everything is predestined, then the watchdoggies are just spinning a bunch of wheels. Also, if nothing can prevent God’s will, then the emerging church will continue “corrupting the world” and his true church will continue to decline. It is all a huge paradox.
![Image of The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Jl6fhDLxL._SL75_.jpg "The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith")
6 Comments(+Add)
So let me get this straight…
Ken says God is sovereign and whatever will be will… Que Sera Sera… so we are left up to the Fate(s) and have nothing to due here on earth except warn other Christians that they are doomed to hell even though if God is sovereign they are going there anyway so it is all a huge waste of time and resources. They want to warn all that are lost and taunt them and mock them on their way to hell so they can be like their wrathful and people who sin hating god.
On the other hand… God is sovereign and has the future set and we play our part by doing His Will and Purpose to bring that future to fulfilment. In fact we interact in a relationship with a living God who cares and loves us enough to listen and have patience with us so that His mercy will be known.
I think that I prefer the God of the Bible who loved the world (hmmm God seems to be against the Kenites already! For if you love the world you cannot love God but God so loved the world… does not compute! does not compute!)
Oh now I am confused… I wasn’t before… but I guess that with the Kenite Chaos of Confusion… I can only wonder where this other gospel of the Fate(s) as god came from?
Blessed?
iggy
I think you have tangled Reformed Theology (you call it Calvinism) with these watchdogs. I think CRN.Info has done that on more than a couple of occasions. That’s understandable since many of the watchdogs happen to be ‘Calvinists’. One of the many problems with these watchdogs however is that they mix issues. I don’t say this to be critical (I like you guys) but you have mixed issues in this post.
Silva is wrong on some things and his tactics are wrong on many things but I’m not sure if this is about him and those like him or if you are really asking about the concept of predestination and our role in that. If the latter, then I don’t think the critical tone toward Silva helped shape that and this post really doesn’t engage in that topic.
Anyway, he deserves all the crap you want to toss his way but I hate getting hit by some of it just because I hold to the Doctrine of Election, Reformed Theology, Calvinism, or whatever …
I hope that makes sense and doesn’t come of like I think you are screwed up. If you are, I’m sure it’s not worse than me.
Rick,
I actually have no problem with my reformed brothers. I used to be one, and know exactly how their theology is derived from scripture. Most of my friends are reformed, and we get along great.
I am being critical of Ken’s theology here (not all reformed theologians). Ken says that we cannot shape the future and then attempts to do that with his website. There has to be consistency in his message and his works.
Rick,
Actually much of what I stated was NOT Calvinism or reformed but a twisted form or the reform. Even within real Calvinism God is still loving… the unbalance view that God is wrathful and if you are lucky enough that you are “elect” and able to be saved. (I do believe in election also… it was the eternal plan of God in Christ for salvation before creation) Election is not about “me” it is and was and will always be about Jesus Christ pleasing the Father and we being the recipients of that favor if we beleive and receive.
The issue is that Ken has a Reformed/non-reformed view… he mixes things to his own understanding and in that washes over Grace by speaking of it, calling others names for not believing in it and in that very thing negate it as he then has some “special” grace that is no grace as he somehow pleases God in his own works!
So it is not too far off from the “joking around”…
I love my Calvinist brothers, but i see that there are “other” views as “lordship salvation” that pervert that tradition in its purity.
Be blessed,
iggy
ok – maybe I’m just too sensitive … anyway, teachers and sites like CRN are an embarrassment.
Rick,
It is understandable… I am a big meanie… and Rick F. is a Calvinist hater according to Jim Bublitz and Ken Silva
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=3315
Yet, I keep seeing that it is not the “Calvinist” but the “Lordship Salvation” twist on the Calvinist view that perverts even Calvinism.
Jesus is not just “Lord” and to settle for Him to be “lord of all your life” misses the point we have no life… we are dead in our sins… it negates this truth and replaces it with the idea Jesus lives in “our” life instead of giving us His Life… It negates that we being dead need Life and that the Kingdom is now as well as in the Future. It becomes only spiritual and we must prove our election by works righteousness…
Again, Calvin would roll over in his grave if he knew what these men have done to his teaching… and I would agree… and I am not even a Calvinist!
Now, Calvinism to me still ahs its own issues as well as Arminianism…so I stay the traditionalist and go back to the Bible and the Apostles teachings over the reformers any day.
Be Blessed,
iggy