I never ceased to be amazed at the arrogance and denseness of the writing staff at Christian Research Network. I will say it, the cowardly and haughty anonymous editor there has written a piece that shows their own spiritual blindness, lack of compassion and severe misinterpretation and misuse of the scriptures. A recent news organization gave an article highlighting the African American religious community coming together over the increasing AIDS crisis in the black community.

over 150 African American leaders proposed the National HIV/AIDS Elimination Act, which they plan to introduce to Congress as early as January. The act calls on the federal government “to declare the HIV/AIDS Crisis in the African American community a ‘public health emergency’” and urges “the Secretary of Health and Human Services to use his emergency authority to redirect resources to address this emergency.”

CRN called this story “rueful”, implying that they were sad or apologetic over the fact that the religious community had come together to fight this disease. In 2005, 49% of the AIDS population was African-American. That sounds like an epidemic worth fighting for. However, the CRN popular whipping-boy, T.D. Jakes, was a part of this movement. The article said that Jakes

“acknowledged that while the group represented different theological viewpoints on homosexuality, he asserted that those differences should not distort the issue. ‘Tomorrow we can save souls but today we must save lives,’ said Jakes.”

The editor said that Jakes was showing his spiritual denseness. He/she/it writes

This is indeed a shocking, heart-breaking and actually quite foolish statement by Jakes who is supposed to be a minister of the Gospel of Jesus— Do not boast about tomorrow, For you do not know what a day may bring forth… Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away (Proverbs 27:1; James 4:14).

Are you kidding me? They criticize him for wanting to save lives, and why — they say he is boasting of the future! In other words, Jakes’ efforts to heal the sick are boasting about what is going to happen tomorrow. By applying this passage to this situation, they are implying that human life is but a vapor and therefore insignificant, not worth their time, and not worthy of saving. Heck, why attempt to do anything that will affect tomorrow… evangelize, heal, love… it’s all boastful if you tell someone you are going to do it, right?  On top of all the scripture abuse, they add this verse to the opening of the article

Every man’s way is right in his own eyes (Proverbs 21:2)

What?!?  How on earth does this apply at all?  Does it mean that because Jakes has actually read the scriptures and seen that we are to care for the sick, that he is right?  This one easily falls into the “what can you say” category here at CRN.info.

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This entry was posted on Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 at 7:37 pm and is filed under Christian Living, Commentary, Editor, Humor, Hypocrisy, Linked Articles, Misuse of Scripture, ODM Responses, ODM Writers, What Can You Say?. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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30 Comments(+Add)

1   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
October 10th, 2007 at 8:53 pm

The lack of concern for AIDS infected people worldwide is disgraceful. And the church is sometimes not even as concerned as people like Bono. And when someone tries to feed them or provide medicine but there are some who are not believers how is that abject compromise?

Maybe I’m missing something but I do know this, we American Christians can share our concern for AIDS people over a steak this week at Outback. If we’re lucky we might even see a few hypocrites, and if the waitress doesn’t treat us right we’ll report her and then all that’s missing is a post on our night of glory!

2   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
October 10th, 2007 at 9:29 pm

I find it rather humorous… that Jim Bublitz just did a post on Rick F. and how awful Rick was in stating about Calvinists…

So you have noticed that comments sometimes get personal? That happens on every blog. The most disturbing thing about your comments is that you subscribe not just to an emotionless, Calvinistic view of people being damned forever, you seem to teach we should rejoice.

Then when Jesus wept over Jerusalem He was just being an Arminian cry baby, right?

I have seen consistently from this hate group like CRN state things like, “the only cure for AIDS is death” and now to have compassion on lost or just plain sick people is… something to apologize for??

Articles like this at CRN seem to back Ricks words and validate them rather than negate them as wrong which Jim B took a few posts at oldtruth to do.
I see some in that camp who criticize people like Rick and myself who are would not agree on many things, would go to a country that is starving and instead of feeding them and looking after the bloated worm infested bellies of children toss bibles at them and condemn them to hell as sinners… and they claim they are compassionate?

Now, I know many are doing good things, but this article at CRN seems to back the very stereotype they are claiming as not true… strange that if you claim to be compassionate that at least they could commend the good and give fair warning about going too far… but nope comdemn the whole lot because they hate one person who is using his influence for good.

I think that the critics at least against CRN are valid… and the Reformed Calvinists over there better look more closer at what and how they state things in the fervor to attack their enemies using this worlds tactics and ways.

If that is oldtruth or the “truth” they are fighting for, I will stay away and believe in the eternal truth…

Be Blessed,
iggy

3   nc    
October 10th, 2007 at 9:49 pm

Nice.
And they say the dirty “emergents” misuse scripture.

4   Chris P.    
October 10th, 2007 at 10:54 pm

“And they say the dirty “emergents” misuse scripture.”

I will say that you misuse it.

As for iggy, once and for all …….Shut up!

What is sadly evident here is the pious bilge that is supposed to be the “church”
Jakes has never done anything that won’t attract attention to himself. Neither has Rob Bell or Rick Warren, Ken Copeland, or whomever. Men touting their good works on the street corners;their royalties are their rewards.
Celebrity worship is evident here more than anywhere else.

Take a post or comment from other blogs and twist them any way you want.
You are worse than those you wrongly criticize. If this is the church, than I will become an atheist, thank you very much.
Good works that do not bring God glory are hubris.
Re: Bono, kiss his ring, he is the post-modern pope.
Before you exdcoriate me in your usual breast beating fashion, I challenge anyone to come visit and see what goes on with the real saints.

5   nathan    http://www.nathanneighbour.com
October 10th, 2007 at 11:05 pm

I had to cool off before I posted this.

1. Are you now the judge of men’s hearts and intentions, Chris P.? Have you heard from God that EVERYTHING these men do is to attract attention to themselves? What a pompous ans arrogant thing to claim! I suppose that the lavish newsletters, resources and conferences from reformed theologians like MacArthur and Piper aren’t the same thing. That the thousands flocking to Piper’s events are not taking part in “celebrity worship”

2. I would rather the whole lot of you to call yourselves athiests than continue to misrepresent the name of Jesus Christ with man-made traditions and false discernment.

3. What are the real saints doing? Singing hymns and having a nice closed home bible study… playing the fiddle while the world goes to hell? How bout we just inject all of the catholics and muslims with HIV to speed up the process. That way we can be as comfortable as possible

4. Next time actually say something related to the post. Simple saying that we “twisted” something is not enough. I would love to see what spin you see here on the article? It’s pretty much straight forward.

6   M.G.    
October 10th, 2007 at 11:46 pm

Wow… harsh words.

Anyways it seems obvious to me that the CRN post is an abuse of scripture. T.D. Jakes was speaking metaphorically while the admonition from James is to be taken literally. Individuals are supposed to not boast about the future… wich is completely unconnected to a Christian leader stating that it’s permissible for Christians to be affiliated with an organization that’s saving lives… as opposed to souls. I mean, it’s ok for Christians to support, say 911, right?

Chris P., if you could put the hatred aside for a second… would you agree with what I just said. If not, why not?

I have a theory as to why CRN gets its pants in a twist every time they see evangelicals speaking out on certain issues. I should write something up sometime…

7   Tim Reed    http://churchvoices.com
October 10th, 2007 at 11:55 pm

Chris P,
You are the consummate watchdoggie. That’s not a compliment.

8   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
October 11th, 2007 at 1:16 am

Chris P.

As for iggy, once and for all …….Shut up!

You lack of love is amazing!

Chris you stated that and meant it… you have never apologized for stating that “the cure for AIDS is death”… yet that is just an example of what comes out of your corner and you defend… and you stand here and tell me to shut up? LOL!

So if you will, you have no right to abuse me in any way…

Which is another proof of what Rick F. states and your “brothers in arms” state as not true.. you prove the point by your own words.

Be Blessed,
iggy

9   chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
October 11th, 2007 at 5:26 am

What is sadly evident here is the pious bilge that is supposed to be the “church”
Jakes has never done anything that won’t attract attention to himself. Neither has Rob Bell or Rick Warren, Ken Copeland, or whomever. Men touting their good works on the street corners;their royalties are their rewards.
Celebrity worship is evident here more than anywhere else.

I would respond but “I believe that God gave me this blog so as his pastor/teacher I must now soundly tout about how I’m right because I have divine revelation on everything. If you don’t believe me reference these articles that I wrote to support my claims about how righteous I am”

Chris P. thanks for yet another insightful “drive by” comment.

10   chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
October 11th, 2007 at 5:29 am

I challenge anyone to come visit and see what goes on with the real saints.

Did you mention hubris in your comment?

11   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
October 11th, 2007 at 6:21 am

Chris P.

Before you exdcoriate me in your usual breast beating fashion, I challenge anyone to come visit and see what goes on with the real saints.

I don’t even know what you are saying here… that you are a better christian and live with better Christians that are all saved by some better grace and have been gifted with some better and more special faith?

In that I say I would stay away from such arrogance and sad denial of biblical truths.

Be Blessed,
iggy

12   chris (the real saint)    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
October 11th, 2007 at 7:01 am

Just seeing how my new tag looks.

13   Jonathan Frueh    
October 11th, 2007 at 8:59 am

I believe that the AIDS epedemic is a horrible sin induced plague that is sweeping the world, but has landed harder in Africa then anywhere else. For a Christian, saving souls and saving lives should be looked upon as one in the same. But I will never consider anything that Jakes says about this issue as concrete. How can we look at someone who where’s suits that costs thousands of dollars and who’s seats are well padded and on the same token act as if the issue of AIDS is in a desperate state. If he would cast his heart on the eternal and not this huministic world which his ministry is built upon his words would have TRUTH weight on them. As of now, he speaks with eyes wide closed.

14   nathan    http://www.nathanneighbour.com
October 11th, 2007 at 9:09 am

Jonathan,

I understand where you are coming from. But, you cannot dismiss truth just because it doesn’t comes from the most purest of sources. If we are to judge truth based on that, none of us would be worthy of sharing truth.

15   Kevin I    
October 11th, 2007 at 9:29 am

“Jakes has never done anything that won’t attract attention to himself. Neither has Rob Bell or Rick Warren, Ken Copeland, or whomever. Men touting their good works on the street corners;their royalties are their rewards.”

That would be because if any of these people do things that don’t attract attention, you wouldn’t know about it unless you know them personally because out and about we can only see what gets picked up publically, you can repackage this same empty slam on any public Christian you don’t know personally because we only see what gets picked up in the media, communication from their church/organization and the intertubes.

16   Jonathan Frueh    
October 11th, 2007 at 9:34 am

Very true, the bible also tells us in 1 John 4:1, “believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” I don’t see the spirit in his “empire.”

17   Nathan    
October 11th, 2007 at 9:35 am

you don’t see it because you have been around his material and teachings enough, or because you have read alot about him on the internet?

18   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
October 11th, 2007 at 9:50 am

We know about the health and wealth ministers because they preachanother gospel. I am not saying Jakes is not saved, I am saying he doesn’t preach the Word and what he claims is the Word is twisted.

I have seen him in person and heard him many times. He is a money hound, very deceived.

19   nc    
October 11th, 2007 at 10:51 am

“I will say that you misuse it.”

Nice. I’d venture to say that you don’t know anything about me or anything about my use of Scripture.

20   chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
October 11th, 2007 at 12:02 pm

Chris P. Come out, come out where ever you are.

I’m gonna hazard a guess and say Chris P. just makes inane statements to get a charge out of people. It’s that whole “anonymity” on the internet thing.

21   Tim Reed    http://churchvoices.com
October 11th, 2007 at 12:06 pm

chris,
Yeah, that seems to be his MO lately. Intereesting that he gets a comment in very quickly every time and then is never heard frmo again. I guess its just easier to take cheap shots and then never come back and try to justify them than it is to have an actual discussion about real issues.

22   NC    
October 11th, 2007 at 12:22 pm

Chris P=

Charitable Person

23   NC    
October 11th, 2007 at 12:24 pm

Anger is of the Lord…so long as you’re a fundamentalist

24   Brendt    http://csaproductions.com/blog/
October 14th, 2007 at 6:39 pm

Chris P: As for iggy, once and for all . . . . Shut up!

Well, that was gracious as hell. (And I mean that literally, not as a shock-value profanity.)

25   Brendt    http://csaproductions.com/blog/
October 14th, 2007 at 7:21 pm

While context and past history would seem to indicate that my interpretation is nowhere near that of the editor, the article is saddening. Not because we ought not show compassion to the sick and dying. Not because of possible sin in the victim’s life. And certainly not because of the victim’s race or how he shakes his fanny.

What is saddening is the misconception that drives the title of the article: Black Church Leaders Mobilize to Combat HIV/AIDS. Ummm, no, they don’t. They mobilized to urge the government to force the citizenry to contribute to combat HIV/AIDS.

Although they don’t go as far as the Live-8 idiots who specifically told us not to give, there is no mention in the article of the Church giving anything except political support to candidates that agree with them. Pardon me if I don’t do cartwheels.

As someone with a brain, this is annoying to me, as this stance is probably backed by a lot of the people who think that the government has money of its own, not that it’s taken from you and me in taxes.

But as a Christian, it’s saddening to see members of the Church looking upon government (a.k.a. “man”) with messianic hope.

. . . for I was hungry and you urged George W Bush to give Me food. I was thirsty and you called on Congress to give Me drink. I was naked and you told Michael Leavitt to clothe Me.”

26   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
October 14th, 2007 at 9:15 pm

Brendt,

I mean this as loving as I can be…

Chris P lashes out because he knows the truth is that he stated that and has not repented of it. Instead he tries to tell me to “shut up” or be “banned” as he is like Adam who hid his own sin instead of manning up to it.

Now, I understand this so I take his anger in stride as he is convicted and if he only humbled himself and confessed to God and to us that he was wrong his own conscience would be clear and he could love us instead of lash out.

Anger is secondary to fear… and fear has to do with punishment… have you ever had anyone scare you? Then you got so anger you wanted to punch them or did? That is what Chris is experiencing with me. I am scaring him by nailing him…

Now, the real reason behind his fear is his attachment to man made doctrines like “Lordship Salvation” that breeds this fear as one must constantly look at themselves to see if THEY are bearing fruit… it is not about God bearing fruit in and through them, but all about them keeping their standing of “fellowship” with God so God will accept them and not turn His back in anger on them… funny that these also preach grace and eternal security but that is the rub and danger of this teaching as since it logically contradicts itself, it cause them to be unstable and live in fear that they are not producing enough to please God.

This is the psychological damage of “Lordship salvation”…

I found that as I studied LS I could see this happening, then I found this article that backed up my thoughts…
http://www.faithalone.org/journal/1993ii/J11-93c.htm

The very foundation of the fear is the misunderstanding of this question.

What must I do to be saved?

It is a good question, but if one realizes the answer really does not go to the question… but answers the real question behind the question.

Mark 10:17-21

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

This is the same question… being saved = eternal life… now
they define that going to heaven but Jesus is talking of the Resurrection and the New Creation… notice how little even today that question is and how big Jesus turns is out to be?

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good–except God alone.

Most just use this to prove Jesus is God and miss that Jesus is stating that no one is good enough to do anything to inherit eternal life.

You know the commandments: `Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.’ ”

Now Jesus turns to the law to show that he must do all that is in the Law to “be good enough”.

“Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

The young ruler states that he has kept that since he was a boy… in effect challanging Jesus that he is good enough then.

Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me

.”

So Jesus is now stating that “since you are so good, you have need for anything of this world… so follow me” and nails the man. So the very thing we are to do is trust Jesus… in effect there is nothing to “do” as Jesus will and has done it.

Now there is another verse in Luke 10 where Jesus states that the way to eternal life is by Loving your neighbor… Which should be the product of Loving God as the law was to teach.

Yet, most clearly Jesus states this in John 6:29 to the question. “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

The Apostles carried this with them and so taught it in Acts 16:30-31

They insist that there is a “do” and then state at times there is not a “do”.

They state man cannot save himself ,then teach that man must do all the righteousness of Jesus on his own effort “with help” from the Holy Spirit… Paul taught that it is all grace, Galatians 3:3, states in a question that how do they think they are …”so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?”

Lordship Salvation states that you are saved by grace and that you have to them produce the fruit of God on your own effort with the help of God, this produces two things.

1. Self righteousness (self delusion)
2. Despair as they cannot consistently keep the fruit op themselves…

Notice we witness this here with the statements like “shut up”.

Now I do nto take it personally, I pray for Chris P to come out of the bondage he is in… and come to the truth that will set him free.

Be Blessed,
iggy

27   Brendt    http://csaproductions.com/blog/
October 15th, 2007 at 4:34 pm

iggy, you do know that I wasn’t chiding you, right? (The only reason that I raise the concern is that you addressed the comment to me. Were you just giving me the backstory?)

28   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
October 15th, 2007 at 6:44 pm

Brendt,

Not really chiding you, though I am giving a little insight into some one’s mind who is under the bondage of “legalistic” teachings that are more concerned with the outside appearance than the inside.

I’ve been there so I do not mean it as a judgment against Chris P, rather more of a reminder to myself and all that we need to pray as this IS a spiritual battle.

Be Blessed,
iggy

29   Brendt    http://csaproductions.com/blog/
October 16th, 2007 at 12:58 pm

iggy,

Just wanted to make sure that we were cool and that I didn’t read/write something the wrong way. ;-)

Brendt gives iggy a man hug

30   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
October 16th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

OK, none of these emergent man hugs around here!

Only kidding. Anything over 8 seconds goes beyond a man hug, right?