I’ve blogged about this before but I think it deserves to be brought up again.
It seems that the more “fundamental” some of the ODMs are, the more likely they are to believe in some really strange conspiracy theories. I only found out about the North American Union/Amero from the ODMs. If I follow them right, somehow the Pope, the Jesuits, Billy Graham, the Free Masons, space aliens, Keith Green, the emergent church, and the Illuminati are all involved in bringing about a one world, cashless society.
For a great article on conspiracy theories, check out Wikipedia.
I think we have better things to do with our time then going all Fox Mulder with our eschatology.
One thing I don’t understand, weren’t a lot of the founding fathers also free masons?
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While I know a lot of people disagree with his politics, Michael Medved’s conspiracy hours where he takes calls all day about conspiracy theories are worth it. There’s some real nuts out there, and no matter how reasonable Medved’s reactions are they never budge.
It’s not only the ODMs. It’s everyone. Have you seen Zeitgeist? While they spend the first third of the movie disproving the validity of Jesus Christ, the rest of the movie goes on and on about the North American Union, the Federal Reserve, etc. The climax of the movie talks about a chip to keep track of everyone; which is ironic considering that Christians have been proclaiming this stuff for years.
I like conspiracy theories. And I’m not fundamentalist. I guess my point is that these two things don’t present a meaningful juxtaposition.
Perhaps I should point out that I have yet to meet an ODM that doesn’t believe in conspiracy theories.
What’s wrong with a cashless global economy? Didn’t we have that for a good thousand years in the beginning? Your dollar bills only have value because everybody agrees they have value. So unless your buying and selling in goods only, you are pretty much working on a credit/value system. Even then, value is still placed on those goods by the person buying/selling.
Yep and you can spend all that cash on a cruise with Steve Camp! maybe you can sit in the hot tub with him… oh boy!
“Its not about me, it all about Steve!”
I know for sure if I went on that cruise I would be cashless!
be blessed,
iggy
Christian,
Perhaps you’re forgotten Revelation:
Those of the dispensationalist/premil’ eschatological background hold a belief that for this prophecy to come true, we will have to eliminate cash and move to a method that would force you to have the ‘mark of the beast’ to buy or sell.
Those of the amill/preterist/partial-preterist read the same passage, and then examine the reins of the Caesars from Nero through Domitian, including the institution of Caesar worship as a requirement for buying and selling in the agora of Asia Minor (excavations at Priene, Ephesus and Ahprodesia, among others bear this out) as fulfillment of this prophecy, so they don’t care so much about credit cards, RFID, etc…
“Those of the dispensationalist/premil’ eschatological background hold a belief that for this prophecy to come true, we will have to eliminate cash and move to a method that would force you to have the ‘mark of the beast’ to buy or sell.”
What always gets me is the leap from the passages about a mark of the beast to credit cards, RFID etc. this doesn’t spell out a chip or what not, this could just be an allegiance tattoo, or going back to the Caesar worship system of getting that spot on your hand or head to show you worshiped the Caerser, I don’t understand the dis/premil habit of pointing out a cashless society as being tied to this at all.
But then I again I see this as a recovering premil and budding amil…
Kevin,
From what has been found to date in Turkey (Asia Minor during the Roman Empire – actually just called “Asia” by the Romans, but to avoid confusion called Asia Minor by scholars), we have this:
1) Nero instituted worship of Augustus Caesar in Priene by requiring incense burned to him at the entrance of the agora (marketplace) and declaring him a god. Those who did would receive a chalk/charcoal mark on their hand (for buying) and on their forehead and goods (for selling).
2) Nero dispatched his general, Vespasian, to quell the First Jewish Revolt, which ended in the destruction of the temple, but included Vespasian’s son, Titus, sacrifice of a pig on the temple altar and his declaration of Vespasian as god. While Vespasian was in Israel, Nero committed suicide by stabbing himself in the head
3) Vespasian and his son Titus followed as Caesars, serving as popular governors who avoided many of the programs of Nero, backing down from his cruel treatment of Christians.
4) After poisoning Titus, Domitian took over as Caesar in 81 AD
5) Domitian became the first Caesar to declare himself god. He also reinstituted Nero’s persecution of Christians, with even greater fervour. He set up a great statue of himself in the center of Ephesus, which was the first thing seen of the city, whether approaching from the sea or from the land. Both Christians and Jews considered Domitian to be ‘Nero reborn of the devil’ because of his actions. To confuse things further, during the reign of Domitian, a man arose, claiming to be “Nero reborn”, who looked just like Nero.
6) Domitian changed the requirement for homage in the agora from ‘permission to buy and sell’ to capital punishment. As a result, thousands of Christians were killed, often as sport.
7) The number 666 in Greek has been found in several places in reference to Nero. The letters in Nero’s name, Kaisaros Neron, when added together total 666. When the Bible was first translated to Latin, St. Jerome changed the number to 616 (Nero’s name in Latin, Caesar Nero (not Neron)), so that the number would still equal the number of Nero’s name (subtracting N=50 from 666).
When you pull all the facts together and compare to Revelation 13, if you’re honest you have to at least admit the appearance of sciptural fulfillment in part.
Go here http://www.wallbuilderslive.com/archives.asp and scroll to 1-17-07 for an historical review of the question of founding fathers and freemasonry.
I work with a guy whose address used to be (until he moved) Rt. 3 Box 666. When the people bought the house from him, they insisted the post office give them a street address that didn’t reference the “route” or “box number.” I thought it was kinda funny.
Chris L. thanks for putting that in one place, that had been something I was interested in knowing more about.
Do we know why those of the premillenial persuasion try to pin this to credit cards, cashless society, RFID’s and such?
Back when I was premillenial, I pretty much regurgitated stuff and didn’t own it myself so I never looked into the root of that connection.
Matt B.
You’re right to point out that most of the founding fathers were freemasons. It kind of flies in the face of us being founded as a “Christian Nation”.
Christ,
I don’t think Matt was making that argument. The historical view based on primary sources such as freemasonry membership roles and statements by the founding fathers themselves is that the number is closer to 20% that were freemasons.
Being a freemason was different than it is now just as being a congregationalist then is much different than the current version of that denomination, the United Church of Christ.
Because someone was a freemason in the 18th century it does not mean they were not a Christian. The membership vows, oaths, etc. certianly are not supported by Scripture and I do believe a Christian should not be a member. One might make the argument that a Christian should not be a freemason and if they do join, they are in sin. Afterall, how can a mature Christian promise to cut the throat of another freemason who divulges the secrets.
Finally, the real question to ask is were the 53 or so men we call founding fathers Christians? Secularists will say few and some well-meaning Christians will say almost all. We have no way of knowing for sure but having studied this issue, I would suggest that “a great majority” were, several were deists, and a few were atheists. We have to base this on things they said, wrote, and did and things people said about them that know them. The way this plays out in a few examples is that John Adams is a definite yes, George Washington is a likely yes, and Benjamin Franklin a likely no.
uh no…Not by a long shot
A definite no would also be Thomas Jefferson. The Jefferson Bible pretty much ends any arguement there.
Chris,
Sorry for the attempt to deify you. I gotta proof read these things.
Matt,
There are those that believe he created the Jefferson Bible as an evangelism tool for the indians. Water down the truth to reach the culture. Sound familiar?
Jefferson claimed that he was a Christian and the book was not meant to be “gospel” but a lesson of morality. The other evidence of what he said, wrote, and did certainly makes him questionable.