I don’t understand why the term “missional” is getting a bad rep from all of the ODMs. I don’t know of any believer who would say living a life that is completely devoted to the mission of God is a problem. Ironically, Ken Silva writes “Tozer exposes the humanistic heart of the “missional” man-centered Church Growth Movement.” I don’t see how missional and man-centered can go in the same sentence. Is Silva willing to say that anyone who has a heart for evangelism is “man-centered” because they are focusing on people rather than God? It’s simply illogical, and shows the dangers that hypercalvinism brings to the church.

We could go on and on about church growth issues. I think it is safe to say that large numbers inherently are not a bad thing and big buildings inherently are not a bad thing. It is what people do with those large buildings and masses of people that make them good or bad. Again, SIZE and SPACE is not the issue. For every temptation named that large churches struggle with, I could name one that small churches struggle with. Ironically, it is usually small, struggling churches that find the most faults in megachurches.

Welp —that’s enough on church growth for now.

Today we’re discussing essentials and non-essentials. You can download the podcast here.

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 Justice and Mercy #12 - Essentials and non-essentials: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

From here:

With in the Southern Baptist Convention, I agreed with the Conservative Resurgence and am glad that the “Battle for the Bible” has been won, but too many people want to keep on fighting and “bombing the rumble.” If you believe in the Bible and the core doctrines of our faith and you want to be a part of fulfilling the Great Commission – I can work with you.

But why do we feel the need to add the caveat any statement of support for another’s ministry? Because we fear the guilt by association that so often comes with forays into the Christian blogosphere minefield. If we say one good thing about someone else (and we are deem worthy of a takedown), many of the watchdog “ministries” or individuals spring into action and play six degrees of separation from heresy. The person we commended has said something good about another ministry which once published a book which had a book jacket quote from this person who once knew this other pastor who said they enjoyed a message by [insert heretic here].

Part of the reason why this site exists is because the watchdoggies have had an effect, and not in a good way. Just one of many ways is that they’ve made communication more difficult both in terms of how we write, and how we perceive what others write.

I just find this post on Slice to be hilarious. The level of paranoia has reached an all-time, I do believe. Not only do the Harry Potter books teach your children to believe in witchcraft, they are pushing the homosexual agenda on them.

The thing is that the books themselves do not say this. Unless your child reads CNN or Fox News, they probably would not know about this interview. Also notice in the interview, the Ms. Rowling doesn’t say that Dumbledore is gay, but the she had imagined him as gay in her own backstory.

Now, personally, I don’t really have much of an opinion on the Harry Potter books. I’ve not read them, and I haven’t seen the movies. I probably won’t either. It’s up to each parent to decide what their children should read and watch. It’s just funny to me to see this level of hysteria generated by a might-be-gay fictional wizard.

I wonder what these people think about Bert and Ernie…

Dwayna begins her latest post with a question

What do the fallen Hollywood stars have in common with the “Jesus People”?

The answer: pretty much nothing. Although she would love to make that connection. She reads in In Touch Magazine about the “spiritual jewelry” of Hollywood celebrities such as Angelina Jolie and Meredith Kahn. It goes over everything from Dia De Los Muertos charms to Buddhist rings. She then makes an illogical link to the punk style jewelry sold at the Christian music festival, Cornerstone. For the life of me, I cannot get her logic.

Although, her tech tags are always amusing. This falls into the category of Abominations, Youth Ministry, Apologetics, Christian Authenticity, and Synergism. Yikes!

CRN had linked to a post at Extreme Theology on how to disciple people. The first requirement, according to Chris Rosebrough, is the following

A Tenacious Devotion to the Teaching of the Apostles (God’s Word Proclaimed in Song and Sermon) Under A Trained Pastor – 2 Tim 4:1-2, 2 Tim 2:2

So, this would mean that laymen cannot disciple people. Women cannot disciple people. And, only those who are pastors can lead people in worship music. A pretty interesting requirement for disciple-making. So, then I thought I would check out the scriptures he used to back this statement. They are as follows

1^(A) I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus,^(B) who is to judge the living and the dead, and by^(C) his appearing and his kingdom: 2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season;^(D) reprove, rebuke, and^(E) exhort, with complete patience and teaching.

2and^(A) what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses^(B) entrust to faithful men^(C) who will be able to teach others also.

Is there anything there that would suggest Trained Pastors are the only ones who can teach others the word of God, or lead in songs that proclaim God’s word? I couldn’t see anything. The only requirement was to have faithful men who would be able to teach others.

I spent the day with Leonard Sweet yesterday. He said that one of the greatest contributions that the reformation gave us was the priesthood of the believer. Unfortunately, many of those who often protect the solas, reformers and the reformation more tham the scriptures have forgotten this. That we are called to disciple one another. We are not called to have high and exalted holy men that do discipleship to us. WE are a royal priesthood, called to make disciples.

Also, I am tired of these watchdoggies only looking at some aspects of purpose-driven/seeker/emerging churches. You see, the traditional form of discipleship was to sit in a room, and have a man dump a bunch of information on you. We have seen over and over that this doesn’t work. I have tons of friends who can quote scripture, give you theology and speak the christian lingo, but would hardly be considered followers of Christ. Today, discipleship is done in relationship with people. It is done in conversations at Starbucks or walks in the parks. it is done in the informal small groups in homes, or after-work dinner meetings. It is not a program that can be scheduled… but is being done like it was in the New Testament. Discipleship really has little to do with how much you know about the scriptures (although they are incredibly key), but about the transformation that CHRIST is making in your life. Sometimes I think we replace the authentic work of Christ in people in relationship with us for well-educated bible studies and sermons. Not that the latter is bad, but we don’t believe the former can actually happen.

In this article Ingrid complains:

Emerging church authors and leaders routinely dismiss the Reformation and its biblical Solas as irrelevant.

But then she fires back with this:

Heresies in the Christian church come never from the city missionary, never from the faithful pastor, never from the intense evangelist; but always from gentlemen at ease who take no actual part in our holy war.

–C.H. Spurgeon

My Comment: The heretics of today who undermine the authority of Scripture drift from conference to conference to book signing to yet another conference. They fly first class or in their own jets, they have huge advances from their publishers and they live very, very comfortable lives. It isn’t difficult being a false teacher

I can’t seem to find anywhere in scripture where Sola Spurgeon could be justified. Perhaps Ingrid should take her own advice and return to sola scriptura.

Edit:
There she goes again. It’d be nice if there was some actual scripture in there. But then again, who needs scripture when you just know you’re right. Sola Ingrida at its finest.

I’ve finally found something on C?N that I agree with wholeheartedly.

Edit:’
BTW is anyone else disturbed by their total lack of honesty and openness? The anti-Mosaic site has hidden who registered the domain (a feature you have to deliberately select and pay extra for), the link to Nathan’s site isn’t actually a link to Nathan’s site, its a link through a proxy I suppose in some sort of spiteful attempt to deny Nathan the google juice, and its posted anonymously (and cowardly). We haven’t even gotten into New Truth’s denying anyone disagreeing posts to link. And of course you’ve got a total open comment black out across the watchdoggie universe. Its like openness and honesty is their kryptonite.

Edit part 2:
The deception of the watchdoggies continue as after I pointed out they didn’t actually link to Nathan’s site the post was edited to remove the link entirely. Luckily a suspicious reader had screenshotted the post before they did it. Before, and after.

I’m now past the point where I can ascribe any good intentions the watchdoggies. They’re more interested in defending their little fiefdoms than they are in obedience to God.

I am now used to being the poster child for Mosaic at CRN, and all the stereotypes that come along with it. But why must they make unfair and illogical connections with people? Labels seem to be their mode of operation. Here are some quote describing ME

Another example of the hate for proper Biblical Christianity espoused by the Mosaic of Pain spawned by Erwin McManus. Today in the comments section of a blog where he is contributor Nathan Neighbour, one of McManus’ disciples

_______

I provide the following from Nathan Neighbour whose pastor just happens to be lead singer pastor, cultural architect and distinguished futurist Erwin McManus of Mosaic.

_______

Nathan Neighbour whose “pastor” is cultural architect, distinguished furturist and emerging church leader Erwin McManus.

_______

*Gen. Ed. Note* Nathan Neighbour, a disciple of Cultural Architect Erwin McManus of the emerging church Mosiac, has also commented on the poster issue.

_______

Nathan Neighbour, self-professed “leader” in the emerging church, disciple of Cultural Architect and distinguished futurist Erwin McManus

I mean, does it make better headlines to add Erwin McManus to my name? I am just a kid from Southern California –but when you add his name to my ideas [POOF!] you have a juicy story. I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, and no one else. I synthesize and formate my ideas without needing to consult a man. I am a free thinker, not a robot who spews out ideas from an author, a friend, a pastor or a Christian icon.

Labels, labels, labels. Emergent, Emerging, Purpose Driven, Seeker Sensitive, Man Loving, Reformed, Heretic, Orthodox, Mystic, Traditional, Fundamentalist, Apostate. If you don’t fit into one of those categories, then they SHOVE you into one. Why can’t I just be? Why do I have to be the emerging disciple of Erwin McManus? I think this is the issue here. We need to ditch the labels and just judge people for who they are (if we must judge). Or maybe the labels just make for more web hits.

Its the big 11th episode where we recommend podcasts, books, TV, and music. Download it here, or listen to it below.

If you suggestions of your own leave a comment.

If you’d like to contact us about the podcast you can send email me or leave a voicemail at (313) 416-0285.

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