From here:

I have a man linking Apprising [Ken Silva's website] as a source to prove that I am mean and judgmental to Osteen.

***crickets***

I said I have a man linking Apprising as a source to prove that I am mean and judgmental to Osteen.

Now, that is some delicious irony.

Once again, the “editor” has posted a link to an article saying one thing with commentary implying it says another.  This linked article is about researchers trying to find out whether or not homosexuality has a genetic cause.  At no point in the article does it say anything about liberal Christians.  On the other hand, it does mention Stanton Jones, a psychology professor at Wheaton who argues against a genetic cause.

Regardless of one’s opinion of homosexuality, it is clear that the “editor” has attempted to draw something out of this article that is just not there.  Perhaps it would be easier to accept the “editor’s” research if he actually exhibited basic reading comprehension skills.

Looks like our favorite watchdoggie is back on the wagon. That’s right folks! Ingrid has made the promise

I decided to gradually republish salvageable posts from the past that are of some informational value. …In addition, I will be occasionally adding current news stories minus public comment for the sole purpose of giving out information.

Looks like she missed the old doghouse. However, there were some promising and encouraging words within her explanation post.

The dead orthodoxy and dryness and lifeless textualism in conservative churches is actually propelling the popularity of the false churches. A return to tradition is not the answer. What is needed is a return to a passionate love for our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Only in the Vine, in true fellowship with the Lord, will real life exist. I want to be in the Vine, friends. How about you? Time is short, and how we spend it is desperately important.

for one Ingrid, we agree. Hopefully we can live in the vine together.

This article from CRN is contradictory in its very core. If God has already arrainged the entire script in history without any participation from man, then why all the fuss? The editor quotes: 

“Our God is not a God of paradox. That is not looking at the whole text, there is much more to it than that. God did not simply get to read the whole plan of history like a script. He WROTE the script. He is not merely aware of the things to come, they are the things to come only because He ordained and allowed every one of them to be completed. Included in those events are the miraculous regenerations of men’s souls.”

* Then why is God angry through you, is He angry about what He Himself has ordained?

* Then are your energies working against what God has ordained and allowed?

* Then why do you not rejoice in the falling away, it is in the script God wrote?

* Then is our evangelism without any urgency because it is all scripted?

* Then are all the postings about the modern church just mockings of God’s script?

And so the incongruity of the so called paradox continues to be baffling. If God scripted it all then why all the hand wringing and for what purpose is the criticism of the parts of God’s script that seem distasteful? Surely no one would want to criticize and castigate any part of God’s plan, and if indeed God is scripting it all then the ones who believe that should rejoice in all of it. The heresy, the worldly methods, the pragmatism, the moral failures, the emergent church, and the entire panorama of what is now taking place in the evangelical world is all part of God’s sovereign scripting. Rejoice in it all, it’s all part of God’s script, there is no free will only God’s scripted play being unfolded before our eyes.

None of us should criticize what God is doing…should we?

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 Justice and Mercy #9 - Halloween (sort of): Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

There have been many articles written on this site that have dealt with the issue of church size and numbers. I want to address this issue again, in light of reading the article “size matters little.” The author makes the statement that we should really be looking at quality over quantity when it comes to people in our church. My first thought is what makes a believer “quality”? Does being able to recite scripture and biblical facts make someone quality? Does attending an in depth bible study on the book of I John make someone quality? Maybe the amount of respect one has for religious traditions makes someone quality.

For me, none of these really define what it means to be quality. So I began to think about what might define a quality Christian. And then it came to me – character. Biblical character really is what makes someone quality, isn’t it? It is the person that, as their core, is faithful, generous, perseveres, wise, courageous, and has integrity that is really quality. Unfortunately, character cannot be taught in a Sunday service, nor can it be learned in books. It is in the continual refining of God’s grace that our character is developed. And really, character is developed best when serving other people, even when we don’t want to.

But, then I look at the people that Jesus chase to build His church on… and many of them were not what we would call quality people. I mean, Peter denied his association with Jesus only hours before the crucifixion. These were fishermen that the world considered to be not quality. We see all over scripture that God chooses people who are not “quality” to lead nations, start the church and ultimately dwell within. So, while becoming quality should be one of our goals, it is not the requirement for ministry (thank God!). If we wait until we are quality to be mission minded people, then we could wait for all eternity. God is interested in using you now, right where you are at.

So, I am troubled when I read statements like “To God quality is vastly important and size matters little. When set in opposition to size, quality is everything and size nothing.” What this says is that it matters little if we share our faith, invite people into our communities or even a relationship with god, because we are trying to be quality. When many of these watch doggies see churches that are looking at numbers, they only see them as marketing moguls or desiring to expand their own empire. Granted, there are some out there at do this, but I would say this is not the majority. The majority of growing churches look at numbers to see what type of an impact they are having on the community and the kingdom of God. Every new number represents a soul, a story, and the potential to share the gospel with someone. I have often found that quality people reproduce quality people, right? They are the ones who are developing others, investing in their co-worker and neighbors, or simply giving more of themselves than taking

Within the article at CRN, the author writes

You see, I don’t see a scriptural basis for a “personal” revival without a community expression. When the group in the upper room had their personal revival (Acts 2), they immediately started discipleship groups, right? No. They went out and took that revival to their communities. I don’t think that we can have a revival that takes place without a numerical expansion in the kingdom. It is not acceptable to blame the fact that you are not growing on the fact that you are becoming quality people. It just doesn’t work that way. It would be like me saying that I don’t care if my son grows; right now I am focusing on helping him to become a healthy person. Part of being a healthy human is growing. part of people a healthy church body is growing. Part of being a quality person means introducing people to the very person that has made you quality.

Some quick thoughts on the quotes in the CRN article “Good Words”

THE WORLD IS NOT IN NEED OF A NEW DEFINITION OF CHRISTIANITY, IT’S IN NEED OF A NEW DEMONSTRATION OF CHRISTIANITY.

Sounds a lot like keep the message but change the method. Couldn’t agree more, Mr. Ravenhill.

WHEN THERE’S SOMETHING IN THE BIBLE THAT CHURCHES/SAINTS DON’T LIKE, THEY CALL IT “LEGALISM.

No, when people place non-biblical (or cultural rules) at the core of their faith and then press them on others, it is legalism. For example, saying that music from the 1890s is the only way to worship God – that is legalism. Saying that there is a correct and incorrect slang to write in (i.e. “dude”, “hot”, etc.) – that is legalism. Saying that you can’t have comfy chairs in church or coffee bars – that is legalism.

“SPORTS AND ENTERTAINMENT ARE THE DEVILS SUBSTITUTE FOR GOD’S JOY.”

I would not have a problem with this statement if it said “Sports and entertainment can be the devil’s substitute for God’s Joy.” However, Ravenhill makes a definitive statement, saying that these things are inherently evil. I wonder if the “editor” at CRN has ever been to a baseball game. I wonder if he/she/it has ever been to the movies. I wonder if he/she/it would currently feel comfortable taking part in any sports game or entertainment. If they do, then they are substituting God’s Joy for the Devil.

There are many teenagers who now go through a variety of emotional and sexual manifestations that are not only not mainstream, some are obviously bizarre and self destructive on many levels. One of the most intriguing and bewildering exhibitions of emotional instability is the phenomenon known as “cutting”. This is where a teen, usually a girl, will derive some emotional relaxation by cutting her own flesh. They will take a razor or knife or some other sharp object and cut the flesh on their arms or some other place on their body. Usually these cuts do not require medical attention so the secrecy of their actions remains intact, but why would someone cut themselves and what benefit emotionally is derived from cutting?

We may never figure out the reasons with any amount of accuracy, but we can know with complete assurance they are in desperate need of help. They, like the goth, gay, and other communities of the lost world, do not need mocking and ridicule, they need Christ to meet them at the very intersect of their crisis. How dare the body of Christ, saved only by God’s grace, ever mock or berate them or use them in any self serving posters like visual stepping stones to a further self righteous elevation. The Lord reveals that “such were some of you” and indeed we were, but through God’s grace we have been changed. But these “cutters” are so representative of the lost world, desperately seeking any way to relieve the pain and unhappiness that has burrowed itself deep within their hearts.

Read more…

In a bizarro-world sort of logic, CR?N has posted an article which seems to combine schadenfruede and misplaced belief in the ‘rightness’ of factions within the church.

Referenced is this article in which Frank Page, the head of the SBC, expressed concern over divisions within the denomination:

“There are forces at work today to try to divide and distract Baptists from our primary mission. We cannot allow methodological differences, generational gaps, or stylistic preferences to divide us,” said state convention president Willy Rice, according to Florida Baptist Witness. “We need each other and we truly are better when we are together.”

[...]

“There’s a lot of negativity out there toward religious groups, and certainly toward our group, because we’ve apparently come across as very legalistic and mean-spirited, and I think that’s sometimes accurate, because sometimes we’ve acted that way” [emphasis mine]

You will note that division over doctrinal differences is not what is being addressed, and that it is orthopraxy being self-criticized, not orthodoxy. [To be fair, I would hold some concerns about this particular convention, since Bill Clinton and Al Gore are invited, but that's a whole other topic...] The divisions being discussed are, to reiterate: a) differences in method; b) differences in generational expectations; c) stylistic preferences. Hmmmm… I don’t see ‘heretical doctrine’ in that list.

In addition, it appears that the mysterious “Editor” is using a different Bible than the rest of us.

…for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. (1 Corinthians 11:20) [emphasis theirs]

When I look up 1 Corinthians 11:20 in my Bible, I get this:

When you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat,

That’s odd. So I did a bit of searching for the passage that perhaps they meant to quote, starting with the query of ‘factions’. Perhaps they meant 2 Corinthians 12:20:

For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder.

Well, the verse number is similar, but the message from Paul seems to be the opposite of what the CR?N writer wishes us to believe the Bible says, though the subject of its criticism fits right in line for that ODM’s like CR?N seem to be striving for.

Perhaps they meant Galatians 5:19-21:

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Well, no, that doesn’t work either, because it again suggests the very opposite of what the “Editor” was suggesting, but fits right in with the turf ODM’s like CR?N frequently inhabit. So perhaps they were using a different translation. So I checked the NASB and found that they were trying to cite 1 Corintians 11:19 (one verse off). Here it is in the NIV:

No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval.

OK. So what’s Paul talking about here? Let’s check this out in context (1 Corinthians 11:17-22)

In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval. When you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!

Hmmm. This doesn’t seem like a discussion on doctrinal differences at all, but rather a rebuke for piggish behavior when the body has come together for a feast in celebration of the Lord’s Supper. The verse in question (number 19) has been suggested by some commentators to be sarcasm, but most see it referring back to the situation Paul refers to in 1 Corinthians 1:10-12, and not to division cause by false teaching:

I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas[Peter]“; still another, “I follow Christ.”

Note what Paul says in verse 10 (emphasized above) – That he desires unity within the church! Well, I suppose I can understand why the “Editor” wishes to remain anonymous after seeing this attempted prooftexting of scripture to support something condemned by Paul.

One of our commenters recently noted that perhaps the only reason more than half of the articles/posters on CR?N hide behind the cloak of anonymity is because we have criticized it, pointing out its lack of accountability and observed abuse. If that is the case, it is just a micro-example of the marcro problem with CR?N and ODM’s like it: the desire to shove one’s thumb in the eye of a brother, when given the chance, outweighs the biblical morality of doing the right thing.

Sometimes the ODM sites remind me of those late night infomercials you see that try to convince you buy a product that solves a problem that you didn’t even know you had.  In this piece, Dwayna tells us about the “growing” problem of American “Hebrew” Cults.  I have to admit, that this is the first I have ever heard of such a thing.  I have heard of small groups of Messianic Jews that sort of resemble what she seems to be talking about, but even then, her piece seems off the mark.

Is this type of fringe movement really a huge danger to the Church?  It seems that it is so far out of the mainstream that even Christians with a basic knowledge would realize it was out in left field.  Is the average Christian, in the mind of the ODM, really that stupid?  I would say that the answer appears to be, “yes”.

The thing with “ministries” dedicated to exposing dangers to the church is that they need a certain amount of heresy to expose in order to continue their “calling”.  It’s sort of like the fad ”diet” industry.  If it was really accomplishing its stated goal, it would go out of business.  Thus, we get articles like the one linked above – warning us about a relatively small fringe movement as if it were a huge problem.

The interesting thing about the article to me, is that for all it’s Scripture citations and hyperbole, it doesn’t give one concrete example of a church where this group is actually causing problems.  We get one anecdotal story about her relatives, but that seems like a pretty weak piece of evidence to claim this is a “growing” problem.  It seems everything else is based on hearsay.

It seems to me that your “ministry” consists of warning others that the sky is falling, then at some times you might have to go to great lengths to prove that point – even it means making mountains out of molehills.