“And wait till you see my new set of posters, They will pioneer a greater depth of mocking than anyone can imagine!”

And Chris P is back to form! Guess he finished re-loaded and gassed up the nastymobile for another drive-by.

Nice.
Comment driveby’s fraught with pathos rank as “objectivity”?
But what do you expect from a person who works at a church that is purpose driven in principle and practice, if not in name, and still jumps on the bandwagon of criticism. It denotes some clear congnitive dissonance.

ChrisP,
It’s a cartoon.
“6 point”?
It’s a joke.
Calm down.
You take yourself way too seriously.

Give your time to your ministry, it’s important.
And by ministry I mean the real part: leading worship and caring for people in your church. Not being a partner in Ken Silva and Ingrid’s “ministry” of fear and anger.

I’m going to write your name, along with Ken and Ingrid’s, and your colective anger issues in the book of intentions at the local RCC parish. Even those “whores of Babylon” are Christlike enough to pray for you.

As I sad
You know nothing about the Reformation,calvinism, or the reformed church.

Since I am not a 5 point calvinist, and have never been a member in the Reformed Church, I will objectively say that have a better grip on the scriptures than you do.
Why doesn’t someone do a study of Arminius’ life. You may get a shock.
Your shallow rhetoric is lacking.

Hmmm, Arminius was also a Reformer… so I am not sure of your point… in fact all I got from this was that you are easily offended and an angry person… and quite frankly a bit arrogant and prideful in your knowledge aobut scripture…

1 Corinthians 8:1…We know that we all possess knowledge.[a] Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But the man who loves God is known by God.

heed the warning of Paul:

1 Colossians 2: 8 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

Be blessed,
iggy

it could be “I” or “They” or “Ken” or “Ingrid” or “Calvinists” or “etc”.

Perusing the internet I’ve found people who claim…

R.C. Sproul is a heretic

Piper is a heretic

McArthur is a heretic

The Pope is the anti-christ

McLaren is a heretic

etc…

Maybe the relativism that I hear Christians complain so much about is more prevalent in Christianity.

Piper is pretty irenic.

Macarthur may have some doctrine right, but he’s guilty of
dissension by elevating his interpretation over secondary issues to being first order litmus tests of orthodoxy. (can you say, “lordship salvation, charismatic chaos, etc. etc. etc.) His church is like all neo-fundamentalist churches. They try to be safehavens for fear driven religionists who want a place to hide and call any meaningful cultural engagement compromise.

If we held him to the same standards as the “discerning”, we could judge him by his fruit.

My last church was in the same area as his. It only has a good reputation with neo-fundamentalists and legalists.

Even some good conservative people who agree with his perspectives on everything have avoided his church because of the way people there have treated visitors.

And we won’t even go into the “Pyro-maniacs” who live up to their chosen name, but not in the way they intend…or from what I’ve read…maybe exactly the way they intend.

My point was that you can go anywhere and find those you agree with and those you disagree with.

I really found people who think Piper, R.C. Sproul, A.W. Tozer, Spurgeon, Calvin, Wesley, Arminus, etc…are/were not Christians. It’s really funny stuff.

Hey Iggy et al,

Just an outside perspective, as I watch the ongoing war between these two ‘great camps’ of the ODMs and anti ODMs websites…(that should be a red flag to everyone btw)

This site, especially you Iggy, seem to fire back at the ODMs in just as much of a sarcastic and mean spirited way sometimes as the ODMs do. Even to the point of judging other’s salvation, or at least implying it, and then you criticize them for doing the same. I don’t get it? I agree with things CRN brings up, I agree with things CRN.info brings up, but you guys need to stop killing each other. You both bring up important points but it’s getting FAR to polarized on both ends, it REALLY is, and it’s REALLY obvious to weirdos like me who come along and find these sites. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Just because Ken is mean to you doesn’t mean it’s okay to fire back just as harshly. (btw, I can’t see the cartoon because my gov’t computer blocks it, but I’m sure it’s hilarious lol, but this isn’t about the cartoon.) It’s like CNN and Fox with you guys haha. I get the distinct feeling that the jist of everything is “Armenians are Christians and Calvinists are hateful and not!” and then the oblogatory retort… “…no way! Calvinists are the Christians and the Armenians are pelegian apostates!!” Seriously guys? Seriously? You preach getting out and putting your faith in to practice and spending less time blogging about doctrine and discernment, and yet this site still exists, and bickers, and judges, and rants in the same way it’s ‘enemies’ do (Yes that’s the perception I feel both sides give off). Hey, I like you guys, I do, but seriously, is this ‘war’ necessary?

Listen, I like what this site does, it’s temperate and pretty balanced (allbeit I feel it’s too sarcastic and cutting, in the same way the ODMs you obviously hate also do) and I agree that in the last year CRN and some others have gone off the deep end in terms of just plain attacking others for the sake of doctrinal perfection, it seems..(something I learned as a redflag item, since how can a human have doctrinal perfection?) We have the Truth, and the Truth sets us free.

I’ve been following the various sites (including this one) for a while, and it’s very fascinating, but just plain discouraging at the same time. I’ve wanted to post comments SO many times, I’ve felt so passionate about this or that, but after reading so many comments on each thread, I feel like my comments would be completely useless and explained away, actions justified, whatever. Basically I’m saying…I feel like I’ve seen the pattern that neither you nor the Silva bunch would budge from your respective positions, and the war just continues on. But, I made up my mind to comment now, because I just gotta say it, you know? Do you guys at least SEE what I’m talking about?

Also, directly to Iggy…I completely disagree with your rant about platoism and calvinism. That’s just the same conspiracy junk that you accuse Silva of engaging in, can’t you see that? Let me give you a testimony that eliminates you implication that the ‘predestination peoples’ (my own term, funny huh?) are in a platonic system, or borrow their thinking from him.

I grew up an athiest. Completely ignoring anything religious. My family was Roman Catholic, but who cares, that stuff is boring I figured, eh? No “christian” culture background, I knew nothing about “christendom”, “christian america”, I knew no hymms, no songs, no contemporary christian music, and NO christian doctrines. I knew who Luther was from history class, and in the same way, I knew who Jesus was from history class and my grandparents who loved little wafers of bread at catholic mass apparently, or so my thinking went. I was devoid of what you guys covet and love so much. Your doctrines, your “anti-systematic systematic theologies” (just like when you try to be ‘non-conformist’, you conform to non conforming lol), your songs, your essentials of the faith, your purpose driven and counter purpose driven movements, et al. Nothing.

Then by fairly purpose driven style church preaching (ironic huh?) (in the military, to boot), I believed and was saved. Then I was invited to a totally seperate disciple making Bible study, focused on learning to read and study the Bible for yourself, accountability, and taking that training and going out PRACTICALLY and making disciples. It was here where I was told “Joe, don’t read ANY Christian literature, it’ll warp your lense of how you read the Bible. Don’t read commentaries, etc, before you finish reading the Bible, and never stop reading your Bible even after you finish it.” So that’s what I did, being obedient to these great godly men that God placed in my life. I studied, and studied, knowing nothing of the finer points of the faith I professed (until coming across then in Scripture and studying them). Well, long story short, when I years later (after continually reading the Bible and not learning of the “christian culture” still) found out about a guy named Calvin (I am NOT a Calvinist, I dislike being labled based on some dead christian who had a boxed theology) and I found that he believed alot of what I believed, from my reading the Bible. I agreed that man was totally depraved, although I had not heard the term before that point in time, now I had a term for what I had seen in Scripture. I agreed that God was sovreign in election, and that man could not put his filthy hands on any part of God’s salvation, this seemed to plain to me. The point is, I believe in predestination for salvation, and a lot of the theology that comes with that. I believed this not based on any commentary or church ubringing, as I’ve demonstrated a severe lack of such in my life, but just from being told to read the Bible and trust the Holy Spirit in me to teach me, as the Teacher. Oh, and I never heard of this ‘platoism’ until you brought it up, Iggy. I have no idea what you’re talking about with two worlds and absolute truth implying lesser truths. The Bible is absolutely true. God is Absolute. It’s not that hard to understand, I feel it’s completely plain in Scripture. True is True, False is False. It’s not two worlds, lesser truths, etc. How is that even possible by definition?? So I hope that gives you thought that everyone who isn’t “armenian” in their disposition to the Scriptures (isn’t that eisogetical to be either calvinist or armenian?) is a platoist or whatever.

Lumping people in to groups is easy. It makes them easier to attack, and makes you feel right. I know I know, but let’s not be that way. By the way iggy, never in my life, have I ever seen a person of armenian Bible viewing goggle disposition say calvinists were not saved (I saw you imply this in a previous post). That is VERY odd. It’s usually the other way around. Just a thought.

Sorry that was so long, pretty general too I know, but hey, if what I said was true, then the evidence is all over both types of websites, and it’ll ring true in your hearts. If not, then hey, you can just ignore me! lol, it won’t hurt my feelings too much. But at LEAST I didn’t say “You facist pigs!!!” (will my comment be deleted now? do you screen for that? I thought that section of the website was gloriously funny by the way!).

All in all, I’m just a little concerned. Why all the cutthroat-ness? Just thought some outisde perspective could help.

Love,

Joe

Of course Iggy, I notice the difference. I’m just saying, I felt it should be more apparent sometimes.

Yes, Paul was a bit more cutting wasn’t he? But he wasn’t sarcastic in Galatians 1, and I wasn’t referring to you judging people in this post really. Listen Iggy, nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade, believe me, but you just stood out to me, that’s all. I’m just saying all this more as a friendly reminder.

About the platoism, I told my story as a way to show you that you can know nothing about Christianity, platoism, whatever, and start just studying your Bible, and come out starkly non-armenian. Plato, Calvin, and Arminius didn’t shape my view of the Bible, Jesus did. I humbly admit that I didn’t always want to submit to what I was reading, but God kept encouraging me to believe what He says. I am who I am because God directs my paths, and that’s just the way it is I guess. I’m not saying I wouldn’t be open to correction on anything outisde the bare essentials of Christian faith. What I am saying is I studied the Bible with no outside influence from past writers, I was kinda a clean slate, a weird experiment for you guys to learn from I guess. Don’t get me wrong Iggy, you say a lot of good things, but you should get off the plato stuff…heck, too much of it and YOU might start believing in it huh? huh? lol.

Right.

We’re cool man, no worries. Like I said, I was stating concerns I had. But come on, you can’t deny the similarity of fighting styles that this site uses and the style ODMs use. I think you guys need to stand out more, if you want to not be seen as just complete polar opposites. CNN and FOX, lol.

Alright alright, I actually have to work for once, see ya.

Love, Joe

Oh well that explains it. I never saw that as sarcasm that’s all! lol, I suppose it can be taken that way now that you bring it up. And if that’s the case, then Paul is a lot funnier than I ever thought! I was leaning more towards the ‘non loving’ sarcasm, you know, the spiteful stuff meant to injure and not build up. You know like “hey I have this great idea to do this!!” and the other guy says “Oh sure, that’s a GREAT idea, moron.”

But notice I didn’t say that Paul is NEVER sarcastic, I just don’t think he was in Gal 1 at all, I thought he was very serious, as the Holy Spirit lead him, because it’s a very serious subject he’s speaking about. But I suppose that’s just picking up pennies.

I got what you’re saying now iggy, good stuff brother.

Joe