Fox Noise sucks

I see that the plan of salvation is not one of destroying this one completely but of restoring this one to it original glory and and more.

As we will still be “us” in the Resurrection but clothed in the imperishable… I see that the New Heaven and Earth will be the same. I do not see “New” as scrapping this creation, but the restoration of this creation.

All things have been reconciled. TO speak on terms of “places” then negates that the Kingdom of God is here and now and will be fulfilled in the future here…

Again, to ask things in the terms to where will one “go” when they die… I would have to honestly answer from the bibles teaching… in the ground or “with Jesus”… but I cannot say they go to a “place”. I used to but as I studied out the bibles terms on the New Creation I do not see hell as a state that one waits and this heaven as a state also where one waits…

I do not say I know all the answers, but the answers I once had do not fit into the bibles teaching as I read it.

Jesus speaks of places like “Gehenna” which is I beleive to the Lake of Fire… in it the garbage will burn… and was created for Satan and his followers, but not intended for men.

Satan is an immortal being and many of his followers are also. But man is a created mortal being… so when if one die and is cast into the Lake of Fire, will an immortal being burn forever?

I do not mean to throw out questions but the true naivete is that many just teach that man is immortal and lives in a disembodied spiritual stated… and when they die go to places called heaven and hell that are not here and God then will destroy this creation as in oblivion so it never is again and then will totally create a New Heaven and New Earth and place us down there. So we live in Heaven for eternity and on the New Earth and New Heaven somehow at the same time….

Heaven and earth are not just that simple… I see it almost simpler than that, but due to Platonist Dualism we have this idea of “places” where the flesh is evil and the spirit is good and we get to go to that good spiritual place. This is not what the bible teaches in about the New Creation and Plato’s Gnostic beliefs have corrupted many things like this.

There you go… there is some more worms for you can! LOL!

be blessed,
iggy

Jesus wins! yay!

=)

Intellectually honest? Balanced? What do you think this is? Fox News?

I think it’s funny when people speak of McLaren’s methods, etc. He can sit with his head in the clouds of dreaming, re-imagining, etc. but peopl never go to the church he started (Cedar Ridge) and read the statement of faith, the elder statement on human sexuality, and generally look at the structures (i.e. the methods!) a ministry led by him ends up looking like.

He can write things, say things, affiliate with people that sound wacky and look wacky, but you really have to temper that with where he’s actually ministered for a good long time.

That is…if you want to be intellectually honest and balanced.

Just some thoughts…

Also, just because somebody is selling books and getting some Xian media buzz doesn’t mean they have the impact it appears they have…

Lots of us who are part of a network of friends called “Emergent Village” respect Brian, like him, appreciate his expansive heart for Jesus and his compassionate tone, but to assume we take everything he says as gospel is really insulting.

Emergent is made up of people who celebrate our differences, value them for their effectiveness in very different ministry settings. We’re not sheep–needing “conformity” for a sense of security.

Joe

It’s all good, though. I enjoy the discussion.

So heaven is a place were God dwells but we are not told the “where” it is as far as a three-dimensional place in creation. It might be that but it might not. But the most important thing is we will be where God is for eternity.