Most of you know that I do not believe it is a woman’s role to rebuke an ordained elder or pastor, but even if you disagree with me on the gender issue you must agree that it should not be done in a demeaning manner and with sarcastic language, would you not agree? Now I have read Ingrid at Slice of Laodicea many times do just that with many preachers, but most of them were of the seeker or emergent variety. But in this post she tackles Bob Jones III who is a theological conservative, never engages in questionable methodology, but has mistakenly endorsed Romney for president. Of course my opinion is that politics breeds compromise.
But listen as Ingrid doesn’t just address the facts, she entitles her post with a demeaning little slight, and then calls Dr. Jones’ endorsement a “love-inâ€. You see, you can be solidly conservative in 99 points but if you make a mistake you will still receive little respect from camp ODM. Bob Jones University is ultra-conservative, but because the president has been blinded into being part of the political arena he will be brought behind the blog woodshed and shown the ire of a woman blogger peppered with disrespectful and self serving verbiage. That kind of high browed scorn is unchristian and unbiblical regardless whether you are a man or a woman, but it remains the mode of communication on many blogs, personal and disrespectful. It should cease.
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30 Comments(+Add)
I agree the article was not very tasteful. I do believe that it is possible that Mr. Romney changed his views on abortion since 2002. However I do think that Bob Jones should be very careful who he supports for president. I’m not entirely sure why Christians leaders need to support politians anyway.
How about this food for thought.
Ever since I was saved, this verse always came to mind, whenever politics were brought up to me:
Sounds like the elections are rigged to me…
So I don’t involve myself in politics really, there’s more important things for the only REAL Kingdom to be done, than to be terrible to each other over politics. God will make the global scene however He likes it to fulfill His purposes and prophecies. Yeah, I suppose that’s somewhat of a fatalist approach, which I don’t really like, but I can’t see it any other way with an all knowing God in charge of the authorites, and who will be put in charge. Anyone have any other light on this matter? But I mean, that’s pretty plain Scripture to me.
I just can’t believe someone (Ingrid) would get so uppity about politics and sin against this brother for his bad choice by her angry words. Politics are in God’s hands, it’s just not that important compared to so many other things.
Love,
Joe
I think it’s important to vote, and if a Christian with strong values gets voted into office, that’s great. However, I don’t think that Christians need to vote for other Christians only. I also don’t think someone is not worth voting for just because they are of a different religion. If we voted for politicians who claim to be Christians, obviously we’d be voting for Obama and Clinton (which I don’t plan to do). Romney is Mormon, but if I agreed with his views/positions (I need to do some research), I wouldn’t have a problem with him being president. Based on various articles I’ve read I think Ingrid seems to have the idea that Christians need to only vote for Republican Christians. This is confusing because she’s complained about President Bush in the past.
The point of this ramble is that I think Ingrid and a whole bunch of Christians do not know enough about politics. I know people who think that because someone is a conservative Christian means they know what they are doing. From experience I know that this just isn’t true. Christians need to vote, but they need to vote for people whose values they agree with and not just because they are Christian. Also Christians need to know a lot about politics if they are going to write about politics from a Christian perspective.
I always recommend “Rulers Of Evil” book for better understanding of government and it’s beginnings with Cain. Tupper Saussy shows how Cain’s 7-fold retribution continues through this day through governments with the help of the Catholic Church.
http://amapedia.amazon.com/view/Rulers+of+Evil:+Useful+Knowledge+About+Governing+Bodies/id=204259
If you are still interested in the subject:
http://continuingcounterreformation.blogspot.com/2007/09/tupper-saussy-abiding-religious-war-3.html
I didn’t know those long url’s don’t “word-wrap”.
I’d get after you for the long URLs, Timothy, but I’m a woman.
(Kidding.)
(Except, I mean, I am a woman.)
Why, exactly, do preachers, et. al. need to endorse candidates? Can’t their congregations decide on their own? If they’ve been doing a good job as a preacher, there should be no need for endorsement. I’ve never understood that.
So let see; Pat Robertson supports Gulliani, Bob Jones III supports Romney, James Dobson is disgruntled, T.D. Jakes is backing Barack Obama, and Nobody wants Hillary. Oh my gosh how am I going to decide how to vote? My brain (whoever I ardently follow with no thought) can’t figure out what I should do!
Again I say…I will not vote! Refuse to actually.
Politics in America smack of the same pandering, posturing, and rhetoric of a high school homecoming election. Jeesh.
Rick,
Good post.
I remember preaching several years ago where I mentioned that someone could be a democrat and be a Christian. We had a man visiting that day. He had read one of the op ed pieces I wrote for our local paper. He want to “see” me in person (what a let down I am sure)
After the service he came up right away to let me know that it was doubtful that a democrat could be a Christian! (implication God is republican)
Such is the narrow thinking of our day. Yes, abortion is a great evil. And so are a number of other things.
We will need much grace in the coming political season.
Bruce
I haven’t voted in many years, but I did for many more. My original point is that if I disagree with Christian involvment in politics, even if the man is a Christian university president, is it biblical to demean him or should I strongly confront his view while still showing him respect for either his body of work or at least his ministry office?
Isn’t words that are “seasoned with grace” included in methodology?
DOH!
I agree with Ingrid on this and have no issue on what or how show wrote the article… there is something fishy going on there…
iggy!
That kind of high browed scorn is unchristian and unbiblical regardless whether you are a man or a woman, but it remains the mode of communication on many blogs, personal and disrespectful.
Then why do you bring up the fact that she is a woman? If you are saying that her comments are wrong regardless of gender, I am really not sure why you need to make snide comments about her gender.
I’m still waiting for all the christians to repent for voting for George Bush. He’s been the picture of moral leadership, ya know?
It just goes to show that people who say Jesus is their hero are still capable of, and do, surround themselves with profoundly unethical advisors for a whole host of reasons….(I’m not saying he ain’t a believer, I’m just sayin’)
GWB is a case in point: You can be pro-life, anti-gay, tell the story of how the love of Jesus and a good woman saved you from the bottle and still end up being a poor leader.
I just wish more Christians had the guts to recognize many of us got bamboozled by the political machinations of a group of people and how certain denominational/religious leaders got in bed with it because they hated Bill Clinton soooooo much–yep, that’s a christlike motivation.
The more and more I read from Ingrid, the more and more I learn that she does not really know/understand grace. It’s like she has no proportionate response to anything…only shrieking and tantrums. It discloses a deep bondage to Law. I mean, c’mon! Bob Jones is bad now?!?! For this?!?!?
Talk about missing all the real reasons BJ and BJU are filled with problems…
Dave,
Now I agree with you!
LOL!
Really though I when I read her article… if I did not know as much about her I would have not seen a it as her being at her worse.
I heard this about 3 weeks ago, on this blog if I recall right, adn thought it was very strange that ultra conservative BJ III would endorse a Mormon.
Now can he do a good job… yes, so if we took religion out of the picture, Mitt, might be the a good candidate…
Yet, she actually brought out some rather good evidence about him that shows Mitt may not be.
Now, to me gender is not an issue, but I would like to know if she followed the biblical mandate (being she is a literalist) and contacted Bob personally and privately before going all anti on him publicly… I bet not, but could be wrong.
When I first heard the news of Bob and Mitt, the first thing I thought was $ was donated to someone… to get the endorsement… I do not know that to be true, but it was my first thought.
Again, though, as far as an ultra conservative Christian endorsing a Mormon for office, does also make me thing something is fishy…
So, even knowing Ingrid, this is rather a soft piece, and actually one of the better ones I have read there, (though I only go there by mistake these days with this exception).
I agree that she is a bit sarcastic with using “love-in” and knowing her otherwise do agree with your comments Dave, about her not knowing grace… but to me that is still outside the article itself… her she is just being sarcastic, yet is supplying Mitt’s own words (I confess I have not watched the videos as I do not care really and am not voting for Mitt… I have a couple of guys picked out, but it is still too early for me to decide who yet… Mitt is not even in the picture for me.)
iggy
oops! Part of my last comment was for nc and Dave…sorry nc.
the last comment caught in the spam filter…
OHHHH spam filter, bam a lamb,
ohhh spam filter, bam a lamb,
spam filter had a child bam a lamb,
dang thing ran wild, bam a lamb,
ohhh spam filter… bam a laaaaaamb!
Dave, I wanted those who know what I believe to realize I was not addressing the gender issue, only the tone issue. Snide remarks? Which?
shown the ire of a woman blogger peppered with disrespectful and self serving verbiage.
This would seem like a pretty snide and unnecessary mention of her gender. Maybe I am reading into because of your previous comments.
That wasn’t meant to be a snide remark, the woman adjective was just descriptive. In the past I have used the word “screech” which may meet your classification.
Wow! You take that as “snide”?
What category does the following fall into?
Truth?
Truth. I’m personally (and scripturally) disgusted by almost everything that comes out of TBN. Paula White…ugh. That’s all I’ll say about that. I’ll just hold my tongue.
em homimg my tongue atho…. and it ith illy haad to taak.
I find it scary with Ingrids cycle of meltdowns and sometimes lack of facts that she has a radio show of her own.
I agree with Ingrid on this particular article but where does this women obey the Lords commandment on loving your neighbor?
I dont see it.
Ingrid shows love that picks and chooses who to love.
And thats not a biblical view of love.
Peace
Tim
Iggy,
You’re the man, that’s hysterical. You literalist you!!
Wow! You take that as “snide�
What category does the following fall into?
Wait a minute.. I am not defending ANYTHING that Ingrid writes.
My point had little/nothing to do with Ingrid. My point has to do with Rick’s snide and unnecessary comments about Ingrid’s gender.
If your point has nothing to do with her gender, don’t bring it up.
Look… I am no supporter of Ingrid. I have never have been. But my reasons for that have nothing to do with her gender.
I am most likely going to end up back at CRN for this…
Ingrid and her friends are headline whores. They pick up anything that is remotely controversial and will get them more Google hits. I mean, most people who are actually making an impact for the kingdom know that these guys are irrelevant and absurd. It’s all the gossiping Christian housewives who love to send out those dang mass emails that check these sites for the latest doom and gloom in the kingdom.
Politics has no place in God’s church. Even if you as an individual believer vote, that should be private and not part of a “conservative” agenda which you apply to others. It’s not enough that people like Ingrid run the church, they must also dictate who votes for whom.
Repent and quit voting. Here is my new bumper sticker:
“Pray, don’t vote!”
Most of you know that I do not believe it is a woman’s role to rebuke an ordained elder or pastor,
Waiting for that rebuke you’re gonna post toward Ms Tony Jones’ then…
I disagree with her approaching Ken alone and without the co-signature of her husband or another elder. Her letter seemed gracious but I still believe a person in authority should be her accountability.
Politics and religion do mix!
Your worldview will come out in your actions and descisions. So is it fare to question Mitt about his religion?
Does it matter that Mitt beleives according to his doctrine that one day he will be a god with his own planet to form and with people worshipping him as god. Will that affect the way he views issues?
Two worldvies are important. Humanism and christanity. When we look at history we can see the outcomes. A christian worldview lead to great peace and prosperity for everyone(not perfect, but just better). The “bloodless revolution” of England, the American revolution all flowed from a christian worldview. This does not mean all where christian. Humanism lead to the french revolution and the bolsheik revolution. So your worldview and religion (atheism included) does matter because it determines your actions. While we can not exculded because of their beliefs we should use decernment about who we vote for.
Should christians vote at all? No that is a good question!
Those revolutions flowed from Lockean political ideals about natural law with some cultural generally judeo-christian language peppering it.
sorry.
Those folks weren’t changing their government because they thought it would honor Jesus and make them better disciples.