All the things you say about the Jewish views are correct, however Hagee’s teachings are fully heretical and they stem from obscuring the lines between the church and the unsaved Jews. Hagee has had unsaved Jews preach from his pulpit, so regardless of his health and wealth philosophy this teaching may even be worse. I agree though that since Ken has so many negative and vitriolic posts that when something legitimate comes along it is easy to dismiss it.

Ken will feed on Hagee’s bones for months to come.

My understanding of all this, and I am reaching waaaaay back in my memory… is the Jews rejected Jesus so now (can be saved by faith) but Jesus rejected them as the chosen people and now the “church” is the chosen people. In the return of Jesus during His reign Jesus will come as the “warrior” messiah and establish His kingdom again on the Throne of David… and in that the Nation of Israel will then be saved. I remember that the teaching states Jesus is/is not the savior if the Jews as a Nation, now… but only as individuals. But will return to save them as a Nation…. again, I was reading Kenyon and others more than Hagee but all seem to come out of Hagee and Hagee out of E. W. Kenyon.

Now I may be off on that, but that is my memory of that teaching.

iggy

““[Jesus] refused to be their Messiah [the Jews], choosing instead to be the Savior of the world.””

Make sure you look at all the applicable paragraphs, or better yet, read the book. It’s NOT just Jesus isn’t ‘their warrior messiah’, Hagee is stating Jesus ISN’T The REAL Jewish Messiah. 95% of the quotes from the book out there will say that, heck, I posted a quote above that says as much. Read the book and you’ll see, I’m sure. Either way, it’s heresy and lets just pray and move on.

Joe

But there is so much other stuff that Hagee and that group teach that is so far off that it holds people in spiritual bondage. I know because a lot of that stuff held me there for a few years as a young christian. I praise God that I have forgotten much of it! LOL!

Do I believe in miricles? Of course, but they are not out of my own righteousness… and that is part of the issue with these men.

iggy

Plus, Hagee never said Jesus wasn’t the messiah. His opinion is obvious by this statement:
“[Jesus] refused to be their Messiah [the Jews], choosing instead to be the Savior of the world.”

Notice, he said “their” Messiah, not “the” Messiah. He refused to play the role they wrote for him. Big difference.

Joe’s right on this one. Silva and crew have
1) over saturated the site with anti-hagee material, as is fairly common when they find someone they don’t like. What? Paula and Randy White to divorce? Let’s write 25 articles on it in 2 days!!!
2) misrepresented what Hagee said. He doesn’t say Jesus isn’t THE messsiah, just that he refused to fit their definition of messiah.

At least, that’s how I see it.

Are you arguing Ken for the sake of arguing Ken? I agree with Rick and Joe and iggy and what they have said is very much sound.

For once ken is spot on.

Is it possible that ken can be correct and you wrong? Or must Ken always be spot-off and you always the one to catch him doing so?

The jews wanted Jesus to be their earthly (like the Kings in Kings/chronicles etc…) king and did not want Jesus to be their heavenly king.

Jesus was the opposite. He did not say he was to be an earthly king but a heavenly one, over Jew and gentile, which JH is confused about. Hence because the jews rejected Jesus as their heavenly messiah and supported him as their earthly messiah (until before crucification), they have rejected Jesus and ought to be blamed for the rejection of Christ as per Gentile.

I’ve heard Hagee preach vaguely on the Jews needing Jesus also, on TBN, but in the context of dual covenant, and that they’re kind of ‘assumed’ to have Jesus by nature of being the chosen people of God originally (ignoring so many Scriptures). Thats the context he means it in, I think. At least RECENTLY (last 2 yrs or so) this is how he’s been going about how Jews must be saved. They’re assumed ‘in’ just like the Catholics assume Mary in to heaven.

I think this is the worst of his doctrinal problems. I think this heresy could really hurt peoples’ relationships with God if they accept this, and it does need to be ‘gone after’, with all due respect to you Chris.

Have you watched the advertisement for this book? I think that shows he didn’t just mean it as “The Jewish concept of Messiah, and what early Christians developed into the meaning of Messiah, post-Jesus, were two completely different things. “.

I think once you go through the book in more detail, and also see what other non ODM sites are saying about the book, you’ll see that Hagee has really gone off the deep end with this one.

Let’s just agree to pray for him and his flock.

Thanks Chris,

Joe

I skimmed the book in Borders over lunch, so no, I’ve not given it the full go-through. I also spoke with a member of his church several weeks ago through my work, in a different context. Ken had already written a few of his articles on Hagee at that time, so I asked the guy if a) Hagee believed Jews are saved without Jesus, and b) if his comments about Jesus rejecting Messiahship were really accurate. His answers were a) no – that Jews (as a race) were not responsible for Jesus death, and that b) what Jesus rejected was a “conquering Messiah” (his words), opting to save the whole world, instead – and that ALL (Jews included) would need to enter the Kingdom through Jesus. According to him, this is what Hagee teaches from the pulpit at his church.

The Jewish concept of Messiah, and what early Christians developed into the meaning of Messiah, post-Jesus, were two completely different things. That was Hagee’s point as I read it a couple days ago.

As I mentioned in the article, I have HUGE MAJOR issues with Hagee from his views on the role of Israel and Word-Faith, in general, but I think harping on his usage of the word Messiah is the wrong area to go after.