Comments on: Are women human?

By: The Conviction that We Are Right Disease | One Thing I Know

The Conviction that We Are Right Disease | One Thing I Know — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:05:27 +0000

[...] I don’t know too many people who don’t have the “Conviction that I am Right” disease (including, of course, yours truly). Recent comments (now at 153 and counting) on a post by Julie on the blog CRN.Info and Analysis readily illustrate this. Of course, people can actually be correct in their convictions, but some of the problems that accompany this disease are arrogance, self-righteousness, Phariseeism and the elevating one’s self while simultaneously denigrating others. These problems are all in evidence in the comments on the post mentioned above. [...]

By: D.MacDonald

D.MacDonald — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:55:30 +0000

Comment from Robbo:-
For me personally, Priscilla, Phoebe and maybe Junias (whose gender I have seen hotly disputed on a similar discussion at another blog) plus the fact that in the culture I grew up as a Christian, I encountered many women missionaries and Bible teachers almost completely settles the issue for me. I am still willing to learn, though I believe this is a secondary issue.

Me too….

By: Robbo

Robbo — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:51:48 +0000

Chris N,

Like you, I read the entire thread and comments at the weekend. I do not think it is so much a matter of God revealing different truths to different children; rather the problem lies with us, His children. I am sure Chris L can very concisely summarize the state of the â€œargumentâ€ in a new post for discussion because he does that kind of thing well (even when he includes pot shots at either of the Clintons but what will that achieve?

The issue of women Pastors or women in â€œspiritual authorityâ€ over men has been debated ad infinitum. I actually find the term â€œspiritual authorityâ€ vague and subjective. Most people come to this particular discussion with already formed opinions, quote their verses and maintain their positions. This is a general statement and I am not accusing anyone of doing that on this thread. I have never actually seen anyone change their point of view in the course of a blog comment thread. For me personally, Priscilla, Phoebe and maybe Junias (whose gender I have seen hotly disputed on a similar discussion at another blog) plus the fact that in the culture I grew up as a Christian, I encountered many women missionaries and Bible teachers almost completely settles the issue for me. I am still willing to learn, though I believe this is a secondary issue.

By: Robbo

Robbo — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:50:42 +0000

Chris N,

By: Chris N.

Chris N. — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 05:47:18 +0000

This may seem burdensome to you guys, but I have been following this thread, and both sides of the issue seem to be muddled under a lot of bickering, insinuations, and unclear logic, with some “gasp”…..emotion in there too……though I do not have much of a problem with emotion because it is just a hyper-extension of the will of a being and all of us engage in it to a point, It would at least benefit me, if you guys are still keeping up with this blog, to lay out the sides of each with scriptures and we could try to work through the meanings together. Our God is not a schizophrenic God who reveals different “truths” to a different child of his. He is consistent and his Word does not hold contradictions, we must find the true Biblical position. Though I am waiting to further engage in discussion of my beliefs on the subject until someone can concisely describe the arguement at hand, I am willing to continue this discussion. Please let me know if you guys are still interested in discussion.

By: Will

Will — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 03:39:18 +0000

My last words on this topic are simply these:

Mercy and Grace.

If we, as followers of Jesus Christ, cannot show each other a little mercy and grace when we disagree, then we are at best ineffectual in our witness to the world and at worst a stumbling block for those seeking the Prince of Peace.

By: Rick Frueh

Rick Frueh — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:22:29 +0000

Let me clarify something. A church can be solidly evangelical and have a woman pastor. Although I feel strongly about it that does not pronounce Ichabod on that church. Let us not assign heaven and hell to every issue, and let us also realize that in things like this God is not “all or nothing”.

Are we saying that if a woman preaches the core truth in a church that God will not empower her even though it is unscriptural? It is not one of the cardinal doctrines of the faith. I would sit under an orthodox woman preacher rather than a liberal male. It is not a salvation issue, but it still is important.

By: Joe C

Joe C — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:18:52 +0000

I agree Sherry. But to some people, Eschatology is just as ‘clear’ as these verses about women. Who’s the judge?

So do you repent of slandering your brothers and sisters though? You didn’t address that.

Joe

By: Sherry C.

Sherry C. — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:07:47 +0000

Many scriptures can have two meanings to them (I don’t think I have heard of any more than that per certain scriptures) but there are no scriptures that can have a wrong meaning to them. On eschatology we learn in part. It is revealed more and more. And many passages aren’t as yet that clear cut. But what is unclear with 1 Timothy 2:12? Only that you want to take licence with it and say it was for the culture at that time. Yes, it was for them and the culture had alot to do with Paul saying it. However, when Paul mentions the cause and effect of the Fall with his statement about women pastors, I take it to mean that that is for the whole church age. The Fall’s consequences permeates all cultures of all time. And I have a problem with anyone loosing what the apostles bound, and vice versa. That mandate was given to Peter, an apostle of the new Church. God’s Word is complete and there are no addendums to this verse having been changed. Heresies always gain a foothold when one looses and binds in opposition to the Apostles’ inspired teachings.

By: Joe C

Joe C — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 23:34:16 +0000

Sherry C,

You do a good Jesus impression, you just need a big white throne and it’ll be complete.

So, let’s get over the woman pastoring thing, because apparently if you think women can pastor, you’re going to hell. Let’s use your same standard then, instead of Jesus Righteousness for us.

Eschatology. Pretribbers, are they out? What about preterists, because you know, they don’t see any future prophecy coming to pass like a millenium guy would? What if I believed that Islam’s end time prophecy anti-parallells Christian eschatology, and that their Messiah to come will be our AntiChrist? Am I out? Because that’s a pretty ‘fresh view’ comparitavely.

So, God knows exactly what He means in His Word, so He knows exactly what is going to happen in the End of The Age, so who’s right? Are the people who aren’t right going to hell? Are they worshipping a different ‘god’? I mean, eschatology….pretty clear verses, you know, and LOTS of em too? So those who ’screw it up’ they must not have the Holy Spirit I guess.

Where do you stop the judgment on peoples’ souls? Not just woman pastoralship, but you have to go to everything. Eschatology, Angels, Spiritual Warfare, how often you must read the Word, swearing, Arminism, Calvinism, and so on and so on. We’d have to judge everything, and condemn everyone.

But wait…I’m not the one with many crowns, and “THE WORD OF GOD” is not written on me.

So lets not tell a BROTHER OR SISTER “you worship a false god”, especially when you don’t know them, at all. Thank you.

Guess we need to “hold on to what is good and get rid of everything evil” and “love each other as I have love you”.

But surely, you can be wrong. You’re just not willing to be wrong on this, and you might not be wrong, but your unwillingness to give grace to others, even the grace enough to say “you are my brother, my sister” says something VERY serious about your heart. Give much thought and prayer to this.

Joe