What is done in Christ will remain… all else is hay and stumble and will be burned up. So if your works are your own, they will be burned up, if they are down by Jesus in and through you, they will remain… (1 Cor 3)

I love the motto which i took as my own, by Maj Ian Thomas…

He who gave His Life for you, gave His Life to you, to Live His Life through you.

Many look at Christianity as Jesus coming and living in the little kingdom of my heart, and that is a lie… He came to bring you into His Kingdom and give you a new heart. Some thing that Jesus comes into our life… and again that is a lie, He came to give us His Life which is eternal. (Ezekiel 36:26;

iggy

Luke 12:31-32

But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well. “Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom.

I hope you see I do not claim and am being careful not to state that I see some as not saved… I am not saying these are not… but I do believe many are not that think they are because they are under heavy legalism and not yet come to salvation by Grace.

Historically may great men of God, including Wesley and many others went through a conversion from works to grace… I think that even my own testimony on this speaks to what i am saying…

I have found throughout the years as I talk to people they are amazed to hear the grace message. I know an 84 year old woman who has been in the church all her life state that she had never heard grace until I talked to her.

I have many stories like this… I know of a junkie in Cali who I talked to for a long time who could not accept that Jesus loved him as he was and that if he trusted Him, Jesus would get him clean. He need only believe and walk in faith. It would not happen over night. He left and went back to his old way and ended up in jail… later he found me and told me he found grace and was getting clean… he even had a job he had kept for a while.

God can change people dramatically by His grace… he changed me after all! LOL!

I preach the same grace to those who do not know Jesus and those who have known Jesus for years and see them change by the message of Grace. It is amazing how many people are in bondage to bad theology that claims grace then denies it after salvation unless you maintain your salvation…

iggy

Iggy – that is not accurate. You are confusing salvation with being in good standing with God after salvation. The majority of fundamentalists believe in salvation by grace through faith, but many require certain things after salvation to be “right with God”.

My only good standing is that I am in Christ… anything I do to add to my standing before God is adding to the works of Christ Jesus and takes away from it… that is works righteousness… and is in no way how anyone has a “good standing” before God…

And many “mouth” the right words… as did the Pharisees of Jesus day… like the rich young ruler they tell Jesus to his face, “I have done all that since I was very young” so Jesus ups the ante to the point where he walks away because he finally see that he cannot “do” anything to be saved… except follow Jesus, which he chose not to. He was a believer… yet did not find salvation.

I think you guys are really missing what I am stating. I am stating that many out there and from what I find mostly from the fundy arena, do not know the grace they profess and attach works to keep themselves holy… if God made you holy in Christ what can one add to the Holiness of God? How can one become more sanctified if God has already sanctified you? No, one must grow in these things God already gave us and not seek to become what we already are in Christ… when one does that, they are not depending on Jesus for their holiness, sanctification or righteousness, they are depending on their own works to find approval.

iggy

Iggy – that is not accurate. You are confusing salvation with being in good standing with God after salvation. The majority of fundamentalists believe in salvation by grace through faith, but many require certain things after salvation to be “right with God”.

Many fundamentalists use the sinners prayer and of course there are no works connected with that. MacArthur believes in Lordship salvation but he doesn’t believe in a works salvation. Your assessment is incorrect.

I am not saying every single fundy out there is not saved or is into work righteousness, but I do think most are. I have run into many sincere “believers”, but our sincerity does not save us… it is the acknowledgement we cannot be sincere and the hope for mercy and grace by the cross and resurrections of Jesus.

I also am not saying they did not come to salvation, but have been stunted in that they “fell from grace” to “works”… yet as I read Paul, he seems harsher than I am here on those who teach such things… he actually calls for them to be cursed!!!! I do not do that at all… LOL! I cry out for blessings to be poured out in hopes that God humbles the proud spirit and they can receive His blessings.

I am also not saying these types of outreaches are all wrong… but that they may not be done in all true purity so that the person need check his own heart before they blast others with their own standard of righteousness that they do not even keep themselves.

iggy

And yes in many cases there is not much difference from a “cult”… if the church is really big on authority teaching… such as it is against God to leave your church, or to question your pastor because “you should not touch God’s anointed” or demands such as mandatory tithing or you must dress a certain way or cut or not cut your hair or wear makeup or the wife should not work outside the home or … the list is quite long… but all of that IS works righteousness…

Again, good motives does not mean one is right with God. Also, works righteousness can look VERY good on the outside, but God is more concerned about the inside…

iggy

I can only give you my testimony and why i left my “fundamentalist” background… if you cannot accept it then all i can say is from my experience inside and out this is true of many.

iggy