more lies spewed out from the twisted keyboard of Ken Silva. He posts this quote from and article by Tim Brown. It begins with the preamble to the document seeking peace between Muslims and Christians.
Before we “shake your hand†in responding to your letter, we ask forgiveness of the All-Merciful One and of the Muslim community around the world.” (emphasis theirs)
Wanna guess who the “All-Merciful One” is? It isn’t Jesus. It is Allah, the false God of Islam.
Where does the quote say that Warren in praying to Allah? Oh, it doesn’t. And, since Warren has a really good trach record of praying to the God of the Christian faith, one must naturally assume that he is continuing that practice here. On top of all that, This is not a document excursively signed or distributed by Warren. It was signed by over 300 leaders seeking to make peace. To attribute this solely to him shows theit agenda in all its glory. Therefore, Ken’s opening line that Rick Warren is hoping to become Islam’s megapastor is absurd at best. It is amazing what these guys will do for web hits.
60 Comments(+Add)
We can no longer rely on our humble and loving Christian lives to reach out to Musllims, we now need nebulous documents that will be misinterpreted by billions as “all religions pray to the same god”. We already have a document that instructs us, it’s called the Bible.
This is a very misguided attempt to build bridges of “peace” that connects the true God Almighty with an idol. This will do more harm than good regardless of the motive. There is no peace without the Prince of Peace and I wonder how many former muslims who became Christians signed the document?
Wow.
I didn’t know it was offensive to speak of God as all-merciful.
But then again…consider the source.
I agree with Rick. However, what you brought up is not really what’s being addressed here. The problem is that Ken Silva made this something it’s not, Rick Warren praying to Allah. Rick Warren wanting to be Islam’s Megapastor.
What a load (of ‘poo poo’)(so I don’t offend…lol).
Worst..reporting…ever.
Joe
Nathan,
Silva is not making this into something that it isn’t. If you’ve spent ANY time researching Islam (like I have), then you’d know that the title “all merciful” is an EXTREMELY common and popular way for Muslims to refer to Allah.
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=%22allah+the+all+merciful%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Stop being so naive!
Chris R!
Vroooooooooooooooooooooooom!!!
Dunk!Splash! Dunk! Dunk! Splash!!!
A Drive By Baptismal REgeneration!!!!!
Vrooooooooooooooooooooooom!!!!
Pull that heretical pole out of your…eye.
I kid…I kid…the Regenerationist…
It is true, Chris. It’s a very common Muslim way to refer to God, or ‘their god’, whatever. And Rick was probably using this as a springboard with the Muslims, you know, as something they could ‘get’.
So what? Does that change that Rick was reffering to the True God? Is not YHWH also called the merciful One?
If you were captured by insane radical Muslims (the true-Qu’ran following- muslims) and were forced to converse religiously with these people, how would you do it?
The muslim god is not the same as the Christian God, in practice. But “Allah” means “God”, and “The All Merciful One” applies to Jesus too. It’s just semantics dude. You hate Warren, you do, admit it, so you just read in to everything he does so much as to always find fault. They have chapters about that in your Bible, Chris.
Ugh
Love and peace
Joe
Regarding Baptism.
I have an open invitation to anyone here who would to debate me in public, in person on the topic of Baptism.
Cool, I’ll do it. Right now.
I don’t believe in adding physical/spiritual works to salvation. Except for what Jesus did. That’s all I trust in. And my life is changed accordingly by the power of God in Salvation such as that.
I rest my case.
“Your move holy man…”
LOL!
Joe
Joe,
In public, in front of an audience, with recording equipment running, with a moderator.
Formal debate.
Well I suppose being regenerated Spiritually by physical baptism wouldn’t be ‘works’ persay…
Except that it’s something you have to do in order to be regenerated…ie born again…
Something YOU have to do….
Hmm.
I’m not confusing this, am I?
Joe,
What do you believe Baptism is for?
Oh, sorry Chris…
I thought you meant just anywhere. I was kinda being flippant though.
You know like “Wow this wouldn’t be a long debate, here’s what I believe, I won’t budge”. It seems very simple to me.
Basically, I’m not going to debate it. I don’t think you’re any less Christian though. Thanks.
Joe
If you can answer this question, I’ll answer yours:
What do you believe good deeds are for?
Joe
Just went out to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture and read A Christian Response to ‘A Common Word Between Us and You’ Looks to me that no matter how you slice it — whether it was something Ken said or not– this thing smells like “let’s all just hug ‘cuz we ALL worship the SAME God.” It’s WAY more than “semantics, dude.”
Didn’t Chuck Colson try this same thing with the Catholics?
I don’t “hate” Rick Warren–but I do dislike what his “Purpose Drivel” did to my church.
You and your buddies keep throwing out the Baptism issue as if I teach and believe something contrary to what scripture says.
I will take ANY of you guys on and I will win the debate!
But, it has to be a formal debate in front of an audience with a moderator. I’ll fly to your town.
Yeah, it tends to tear churches apart, doesn’t it? All in the name of progress and purpose. I don’t agree with his methods either Keith.
It’s semantics. Rick Warren doesn’t believe the muslim god is Jesus.
Reducto.
Joe
Joe,
Good deeds are for me to show the love of Christ to my neighbor.
Your turn
Keith,
I got your email. You’ll have my response this afternoon.
Man Chris,
You’re really up in arms about baptism. Shouldn’t it worry you that you’re so focused on such a small thing in the NT compared to many other greater points? Dude, don’t worry about it. I don’t doubt you could beat me in a debate, but that doesn’t make you right, it just means you focus much more time on the subject than I do in order to beat people in debates maybe? I dunno man. Being born again by physical water baptism, done by men, sounds flakey to me. Let’s get back on subject.
NC, stop bringing up the BR thing with Chris R, it just derails the talks and makes him upset, can’t you see that? Then he gets all boastful about beating people in debates, and thus you cause him to stuble. Stop stop stop.
But I think NCs point is, many would say YOU CHRIS R, have questionable beliefs, just like you say many others do. So unless you’re perfect, or consider yourself perfect in doctrine and deed, stop throwing stones at Warren. I think that’s what HE’S saying to you. He just does it in a…snarky way.
Joe
Baptism is to show I’m a Christian now.
I guess we’re clear. I agree with your ‘good deeds’ answer, but I doubt you’ll agree with mine.
Joe
I volunteer to be the moderator.
Joe,
There is a such thing as truth and false teaching. I don’t believe we Christians have freedom to take a smorgasbord approach to doctrine and believe what ever we want by picking and choosing.
It is not a small issue.
Joe,
Furthermore, I not the one who brings up the baptism issue (every time I comment here) it is you guys that do that. It would seem that is the DOODMs that are obsessing on the baptism issue, not me.
Okay I agree with you about that as long as you admit that you pick and choose what doctrines to believe in too.
There is such a thing as true and false teaching, unfortunately more often than not, ALL Christians teach and talk about false things, including yourself. Don’t forget our last conversation. Are you a false teacher? Are you Christian?
Rick teaches incorrect things, I think, however, that doesn’t give me the right to say he’s a false Christian helper of the antichrist. You teach incorrect things too, how are you any different? If you don’t teach incorrect things now, you surely have in the past, are you different than Rick Warren?
Hey, I admonished NC. I did that for you. Don’t be mean to me. Just kiss and make up guys.
Joe,
I do not pick and choose what doctrines I believe. I came kicking and screaming into the Lutheran church (a church I HATED) because their doctrine best fits scripture.
I’ve had to adjust my doctrinal views several times in my life (against my will) because what I believed didn’t square with scripture.
And I’ll bet you’ll do it in the future too.
Hence, I rest my point.
Funny thing, doctrine. Man’s way of explaining the Truth in the Word. Always changing, but God and the Word don’t.
How come you never address my points, but zero in on one small facet of my comment? You didn’t address anything about false teaching, and Warren. THAT’S the subject of this thread afterall. I keep trying to get back on subject. Help me out here Chris lol.
Me you and NC all derailed this convo. So let’s forget it and get back on track.
Thanx.
Keith, do you think that Warren actually thinks Jesus is (the Muslim) “Allah”?
FYI – I don’t keep bringing up baptism. My church practices it (always has) as something that Jesus taught, and it is a requirement for membership in the local congregation. (here’s our web page on the subject)
I don’t think you’d get Tim to argue with you either, as CBC teaches baptism as part of the process of salvation. As for some who consider it a ‘work’, I have always viewed it in similar fashion to the Israelites being told to put the lamb’s blood on their doorway so that the angel of death would pass over. God said he would save them, but they had to do something minimally and publicly to accept that gift.
While I would not hesistate to break bread with a believer who was not baptized and call them ‘brother’, I would still believe it disobedient to put off being baptized, since it is something that is commanded of us almost 60 times in the NT…
Now, when you start arguing over sprinkling/dunking and infants/believers, the conversation quickly goes south and misses the point.
but this thread isn’t about baptism, and I’ve got work to do…
“Rick Warren is hoping to become Islam’s megapastor.”
Ken: How do you know that is his hope?
Regarding the article, Rick Freuh’s statement that this document will be misinterpreted is right. We would be better to focus our efforts on clear Gospel messages rather than statements of agreement.
I’m inclined to agree with you Chris L.
ACTUALLY…
it’s only ME who brings it up…
So you can feel free to offload the ‘tude about “everyone here” bringing it up…
I know, i know, it’s just soooooooooo hard to get a taste of you and your friends “ministry” medicine.
I’m not trying to derail the thread…
but as Joe pointed out…
There IS irony in that you point the finger at people for their beliefs with such stridency without acknowledging that there is a signficant portion of evangelicalism that would feel the same about your position…despite your willingness to debate it.
It would seem that such an awareness would inspire a kind of circumspection in you and your friends…
But it doesn’t…
Ultimately…
I personally DO NOT CARE what your views on baptism are.
(Because I understand that godly people, far wiser than you and I disagree on this issue…but apparently when certain people have that humble attitude it’s compromise, but when you and Ken or whoever work it out, it’s a sign of Christian maturity.)
I DO CARE that you’re on your high horse–almost making a “calling” out of it–with no self awareness about how your own position would be received by many…
You know…I don’t like the PD stuff either, but I can’t deal with the “high horse” attitude that won’t take into account any kind of possibility of failure, mistakes or just plain old humanity in people…
The measure with which you measure is measured to you…
and it sucks.
That’s why it’s better to not judge…
The ODM’s are fundamentally taking a “elder/pastoral” role that exceeds any local congregation which is the locus of their authority–it does not transcend it
IN that they violate Scripture and assume authority that biblical ecclesiology does NOT allow for.
They make themselves a kind of de facto “bishop” with no instrument of investiture other than their own will or “it seeming good in the Lord”…
And spare me any protestations about how “pastors aren’t doing the work so we have to…”
If you have a flock to tend then do it. But this whole supra-congregational “calling” is a load.
If pointing that out and your own hypocrisy is too much, then maybe some of you shouldn’t have started playing a game with your version of the truth…
I’ve made my point.
I won’t bring up the BR issue again…
I just love how delicate these “lions” are as they “raise their sword of the Spirit” in their fake “truth war”.
And as far as Snark goes…I hate it…but it’s abundantly clear that it’s the only dialect some people understand.
Again…the measure with which you measure is measured to you.
Ingrid, et. al. made the bed…they need to lie in it.
NC,
Good stuff…but you seem to be forgetting something that I think God wants me to tell you right now:
“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
Don’t be snarky unless you want people to snark back, buddy.
Love,
Joe
Gee Ken lying, big surprise.
Now that I’ve isolated the sarcasm group of muscles I can move onto cynicism and then maybe work on my core a bit.
I hear you, Joe.
But really…I don’t care if they snark at me.
Their hypocritical arrogance is what drives me nuts…
Even so NC…’love your enemies’ ‘bless and do not curse’. You know this, I know this, so lets live it.
That piece was not written by Warren it was co-signed by him… and it was co-signed by a lot of “well-known” evangelicals… why pick on just one co-signer?
What’s interesting is Ken is assigning motives. Something he tells our own Chris (at agendalesslove) that he canot do when discussing Ken’s motives for using slang.
Keith, Here is your opportunity to ask Chris R about his “Baptism regeneration” which Ken Silva considers of RCC leanings… if it was taught by an emergent… but not if it is taught by Chris R who contributes to CRN!
Can we say double standard? Rick Warren is the new pope and not the new christian Mullah…
But, Ken and Chris R can set aside their differences to attack others they disagree with….
Wow… Romans 2 in action… but not in a good way!
iggy
Joe C and Iggs: Sorry, I was out of pocket last night and didn’t see your questions.
Joe C: I don’t think “Rick Warren believe[s] that Jesus Christ (GOD) is Allah (god of muslims)”. I DO believe it’s a bad idea to be publicly aligned with other groups that do not understand or embrace the One, True God of the Bible. Sends too much of a mixed message. (Back to my Chuck Colson comment on the CRN.Info blog. I believe this was also one of the downfalls of the Promise Keepers movement. We all DON’T believe the same.)
I do believe Rick Warren is a clever “marketer.” It’s a “PD Christmas” at the local Christian bookstore. BTW, you know anybody looking for a Purpose-Driven Drill Bit set? (Complete with study guide)
==
Iggy: I’m assuming “RCC” to be Restoration Christian Church–the denomination of choice of Tim Reed and Chris Lyons (I think)?
Actually, I emailed Chris R about that very topic several days ago. I chose not carry on that conversation here due to the “cat fight” mentality that seems to be prevalent around here of late. I think I’ve got a pretty good idea as to the opinion of several posters here already. I’ll let Chris R speak for himself.
Purpose Driven Drill Bit Set – That was funny Keith.
Purpose Driven Diet
Purpose Driven Western Wear
Purpose Driven GED Class
Purpose Driven Bakery
Purpose Driven Family Planning
Purpose Driven Honeymoon
Purpose Driven Dentistry
Purpose Driven Cosmetics
Purpose Driven Turkey Calling
Purpose Driven Telemarketing
Purpose Driven Opera
OK, I’ll stop. Anyone else come up with any?
Keith,
That’s a much more reasonable position than “RICK WARREN WANTS TO BE TEH POPE OF TEH MUSLIMS!!!!” that Ken screeched out.
Keith, we disagree quite a bit, but I doubt there would be CRN.info (and I know I wouldn’t be all that involved with it) if your blog was representative of the watchdoggies.
Keith,
I think that whenever anyone refers to the RCC here, they generally mean the Roman Catholic Church. Just FYI.
Phil,
I think Keith was trying to be funny with that. Alright, it was a little funny.
No, I was refering to the Really Corrupted Church….
You pick it… whatever fits you… I guess everyone needs an enemy.
LOL!
iggy
FYI: I am being “snarky”.
Phil Miller: Well, I must confess here [drumroll please] that my predisposition toward the Christian Church caused me to not even consider “Roman Catholic.” Tim knows why.
Tim: Are you actually saying that I, Keith, actually made a statement that was “reasonable” here on CRN.Info?! I am honored. See, I can be reasonable…at times.
I’m off to a funeral this morning, so you guys carry on. Pray for our church–Bethel Baptist–one of our pastors died unexpectedly this past weekend. Although we have hope in Christ, it will be a rough service; he was the youth minister.
Keith,
My prayers are with you and your church my friend.
Blessings,
iggy
Keith, much of what you say is reasonable. I disagree with it, but the tone and content is reasonable. Which is why I don’t call you a watchdoggie.
Also, I’ll be in prayer.
I actually own a pair of Purpose Driven boxer shorts.
The pastor of my previous church emailed all the lay leaders and asked us what we thought about Purpose Driven for our church. I was hesitant to endorse it because I read the book and thought it was ok. So I emailed the pastor and I joked with him that I owned all the Purpose Driven stuff, including the Purpose Driven boxer shorts. I later told a friend and he thought it was pretty funny that I told the pastor I owned PD underwear. A few weeks later, my friend gave me an actual pair of PD boxer shorts. He did the whole iron on thing. It was hilarious.
This is kind of off-topic, but not. Have any of you seen the “40 Days of Purpose” video series that they made to show with the small groups? Did Rick Warren remind anyone else of John Candy? My one friend and I noticed it, and I couldn’t keep from cracking up the rest of the time. It’s especially when he laughs.
I think Warren’s lost some weight since then.
Matt B, I’m not sure I’d ever tell anyone that again. In fact, I know it’s against policy but if I were you I’d go in there and delete that comment. I feel bad for you now.
Phil, WAY WAY WAY back in the day, at a church I was on staff at we watched those things just short of 500,345, 234, 344.9087 times and I noticed it on the second DVD. Made me laugh all the time.
BTW Phil, have you seen my blog post with the girl hunting? She’s obviously not from Pa.
Rev Joe – I’ve had to wear them at times when I’ve forgotten to do laundry. I’m always worried that something bad will happen to me that day, I’ll end up in the hospital, and the doctors operating on me are like, “What? What does his underwear say? Purpose Driven? What does that mean?”
Hey be careful here… when I shave off my beard, I am told I look like RW a bit… but I have never been told I look like John Candy. = )
LOL!
iggy