And nothing terrified by your adversaries: which to them is an evident token of perdition, but to you OF SALVATION, and that OF GOD. For unto you it IS GIVEN, in the behalf of Christ, not only TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for his sake (Philippians 1:28,29 KJV).

And when they were come, and gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how HE had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles (Acts 14:27 KJV).

F Whittenburg

God initiates and we respond… it is pretty simple… in that God initiates salvation and we respond we then are “followers” and no longer taking the lead in our own life.

It is that we submit out of Love as a response…

The other question is “So what cause(s) us in our current state to choose Him?” It is that the Holy Spirit was poured out on “all flesh” on the day of Pentecost and we are now “wooed” by Him. (Job 36:33 NIV but the word means stired up in us) I see God’s calling and the same as the Spirit wooing. It is His Kindness that leads us to repentance and God shows His kindness through Jesus Christ.

It is that God calls us in that we choose to respond…

God calls us for He justified us, he justified us so He could glorify us… and all this was predestined in Christ before creation.

I am not a Calvinist… so my view of predestination is not exactly the same as that view. I see that the eternal plan was Jesus and that those who believed in Him would be placed in Him… I do not see that God just arbitrarily took some and then created others for damnation. In fact I see that in the passage in Romans 9 most Calvinists stop at verses 18… James White at least goes to verse 24, but the punch line is in 25 through 33!

It is that those who were considered to be vessels of wrath (the gentiles) are really revealed as vessels of mercy… while the vessels of mercy (the Jew) have become vessels of wrath… why? Because they pursued it ( law of righteousness) not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”

This “Law of righteousness” was that one would seek God out of faith as they realized they could not fulfill the Law in and of themselves… yet they pursued the Law as if it would bring them righteousness… but it only brought death.

God has flipped things on their head and all this by His Grace. Since the Jews failed in their vocation to bring the righteousness of God to the nations, God came Himself to bring righteousness to all mankind.

Yet, again this is all to fulfill the promise of Abraham as God does not lie.

I see salvation is offered to all mankind so none have an excuse and that God is just.

Now I do not want to go into the difference between what I see the bible states about predestination and Calvinism… that would take too much time… but feel free to email me if you so desire to continue this discussion.

iggy@wwdb.org

So what cause us in our current state to choose Him?

One last comment
You guys say that it is because I beleive that is why I am saved. So you say that the reason I am saved is because I did something. Belief is the work the God would have us do. I say belief is not what saves me but it is evidence that I am saved. Not every person that believes will be saved but every saved person will believe! I hope this clears up my perspective a little bit for you and why I kept on asking questions. It is not that God takes the first step, it is that he takes all the steps.

Why do I apply the blood? What is the cause that makes me want to apply the blood?

But why am I saved?

Because I believe?
Or because God has mercy?
What comes first mercy of belief?
What creates belief in a sinful man?

I think you miss the point of the Exodus…

If the Hebrew was in unbelief… then they would not have applied the blood… and would not have been spared… but they did believe and applied the blood and were spared.

If someone does not apply the Blood of Christ to themselves they then cannot be open to the Life and will not be spared, but if a person applies the blood to themselves and receives the Life, they will be spared.

You seem to be hung up on this for some reason…

iggy

Hebrews

13and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. 14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holinesswithout which no one will see the Lord.

Repentance is required in the life of a beleiver. Again this is not the cause of salvation but a fruit of a beleiver. So can I tell if I really believe. Well have I repented from my sins(stop sinning) and turned to Christ. Repentance as you said is a u turn.

Pastor on Sunday had a good point. If you are going to IL(starting place WI) but you are driving towards MN you will never make. If someone tells you are going the wrong way and I say “You know, you are right I believe you” but do not turn around you will never make it. But if you listen, beleive and turn around then you will make it.

You are right to say apart from Chist we can not be holy Christ says so. Apart from me you can do nothing! But does this negate the duty we have before God to be a people zealous for good deeds? Nope but the only way we are a people who can be zealous for good deeds is because of Christ and shows that His death was effective.

Excellent points…

Note also that Jesus states that he is likened unto the bronze serpent that cured the Hebrews from the poisonous snake bites… God did not want a sin offering for their sin of complaining against Him, but only that they gazed upon the snake on the pole. We are only to gaze on Jesus in the same way the Hebrew gazed on the snake on the pole and had his life spared… we are also spared by faith.

iggy