How dare he apoligize!
They’re still trying to get Warren in a trap. I must admit, that when I read this short clip from Slice, I thought “oh man, Rick. What have you done now?†Joseph Farah was saying that Rick was making comments that gave comfort to the enemy of Christians and criticizing the U.S. However, Farah opens his hit piece up with this explanation of Warren’s inappropriate comments
Rick Warren loves to apologize for things he didn’t do, for things other people did that weren’t wrong, even for things that occurred hundreds of years before he was born.
For instance, he recently apologized to Muslims worldwide for atrocities committed against their ancestors during the Crusades.
He also recently apologized for American “excesses in the war on terrorism.”
And he has apologized for the church because it hasn’t done enough about the spread of AIDS and problems like global warming.
After I read that, my first response was, “Are you serious?†You are actually saying that killing innocent Muslims, being incredibly racist and using racial profiling when it comes to the war on terror and not caring about the AIDS crisis is not wrong? We must be reading two different gospels. I missed the part where the scriptures say to kill your enemies and ignore those who are suffering. We wouldn’t want to do anything that messed up the whole “perfect Christianity” vibe we have going for us. I loved how Farah feels it necessary to hold Syria accountable for killing Christians, but doesn’t find it necessary to hold ourselves accountable for killing Muslims.
There is a lot of bantering back and forth in this article about a video that was filmed, and if it did or did not hold strong political statements made by Warren. That situation does seem a bit suspicious. However, once again it is important to note how much these guys meddle into the life and ministry of Warren. Is it really their responsibility to relegate Warren’s political statements, confirm if he knew about a tape, find out if Arab statements in newspapers are valid, make sure Warren wasn’t lying when he says he wasn’t, and check if his political statements are kosher? Farah has no idea about the agreements Warren made, the conditions he was under for filming, or even the contents of the tapes. It is absolutely rediculous how far these guys will go to get some inkling of a story. In my opinion, Warren is innocent until proven guilty, rather than having guilt assumed.
In conclusion, it seems like many of the ODMs would disagree with “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations.†Their version would read “Therefore go and make disciples of those nations who America currently agrees with, and make sure not to make any political statements that would damage our country or the history of Christianity.†It’s sad that we begin to pick and chose which people group we are willing to connect and share the gospel with based on the latest news out of Washington.
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31 Comments(+Add)
I am sure Warren was attempting to open doors. But this is an example of what happens when Christians represent America rather than Christ. And those that criticize Warren are nationalists themselves.
Come out from among them…
I think that they are not saying it is wrong to take the gospel to those countries. The method that Warren and others liek him use clouds the gospel and adds to it is a sense. The seeker model takes the foolishness of the gospel and tries to make it wise, it takes the offence of the gospel and tries to make it palatable. By changing the form and methods of worship in church to “reach teh un-churched” takes the gospel away from evangleism. Eveganlism is not passive or just something for the patsors to do. It is done where the sinner is and then when they repent the go to church. The seeker moduel, Warren, does this backwards therefore clouding the gospel of Christ. So they do not deny that those “evil’ countires need the gospel of Christ they deny the some of the methods employed as clouding the gospel.
I think it would be good for various Christian leaders to move away from America for awhile and get a different worldview and perspective of Christianity. That’s what I want to do.
The Bible didn’t say “Christ died first for the American and then for the world,” it said “Christ died first for the Jew, then for the Gentile!” LOL.
I’m not really sure it’s Rick Warren’s place to apologize for the war on terrorism, but whatever.
Rick – I agree with you (I think).
I am not defending the attackers of Warren. Frankly it doesn’t matter what he says, those guys are going to attack even if they have to make up something.
On the other hand, I never really understood that whole concept of apologizing on behalf of others – especially when you are not a representative of that group.
So Nathan – ODM’s and Warren aside, do you see this oft popular notion of apologizing on behalf of others as “Scriptural”? If so, perhaps you would write a post on that sometime. I’d be interested if you have some insight on the topic.
Merry – I lived in western Europe for 6 years and have travelled the world but it hasn’t changed my perspective of Christianity. Maybe I had it right all along or maybe I’m too stupid to recognize the need for change … either way I do not recommend moving out of the US for that purpose – we are very fortunate here and true Christianity can be found here in spite of that.
Rick I.,
I may not write a post on it. However, I think we need to fess up for the crap we have done in the past… including the crusades, the KKK and other hurtful things that have been done in the name of Christ. SO much of our “opposition” comes as a result of the stupid things from the past. If me appologizing for that helps, then I will.
BTW… my biggest beef was that Farah said these things were not wrong. It is one think to say Warren should not have appologized, it it another to say that there is nothing to appologize for.
It is the way he did the “I’m sorry.” In the big letter thingy that all those pastors signed it used islamic names for God. The names of God are very important. Like the article that was just posted about X-mas. So when you use a false gods name for the real God there is a real problem. That is the main prob with the apology.
I do not feel that we need to say “I’m sorry” for the war on terror or the crusades or the KKK. We need to condemn those actions and then say that is not christian but using the christian name. Condemning the actions and apologizing for them are differnt. How can I say sorry for something that happened along time ago and the people I am saying that to never experenced the wrong. I can say those actions where not of God and they where evil men.
My understanding with Middle-Eastern cultures (including Judiasm) – from both my business and my spiritual dealings with them – is that memories are much, much longer and being “representative” of a group is seen much more broadly.
Here in the west (including Western Europe), we tend to see things in months, years and (sometimes) decades. In the ME, they take a MUCH longer view.
For example, if you go to the terraces outside Bethlehem and into some of the “garden area” in the strip of land between the Judean wilderness and the Shephela, you will find family “gardens” which have been cared for in the order of centuries. These terraces are maintained because their ancestors 500 years ago kept them from washing away so that they would have them, and where theymaintain them so that theirdecendents 500 years from now will still have them.
What was done by the Catholic church 1000 years ago in the name of Christianity is still an affront to many of the people there, and repeating the apology on behalf of Christianity is seen as making peace (even without the direct tie). With the Iraq War, there is very little distinction seen in many parts between Christianity and America – and that it is a repeat of the Crusades, but under a more palatable guise. A friend of mine who used to work for the US government in matters of diplomacy commented that what these church leaders did was a shrewd move, because 1) it could not have been done by the US government, and 2) it would be seen as a move toward peace.
Churches being involved in international politics still make me leery, though, so I am still undecided on the wisdom of the move…
Rick I.,
Living in different parts of the world may not have changed your perspective of Christianity, but I was referring to “health and wealth” preachers who focus on living the best life you can have and God will bless you abundantly, etc. I wish they could live in Sudan or third world countries for a while and talk to Christians living there . . . This may not apply to Rick Warren specifically, but yeah.
I would like to apologize on behalf of the teacher who allowed a teddy bear to be named Mohammad.
I apologize.
I would also like to apologize on behalf of the thousands of Muslims who called for the teacher’s execution. That was wrong too. So I’d also like to apologize for that.
Sorry.
Rick I.,
“either way I do not recommend moving out of the US for that purpose”
I beg to differ. Maybe not specifically for that purpose, but it’s not like the US is THE place to be for Christians.
“- we are very fortunate here and true Christianity can be found here in spite of that.”
Yes, and many are even spoiled. Yes, even American Christians are spoiled. Moving somewhere that isn’t as prosperous may not change one’s theology, but, I think, will teach us to rely on God more. Christianity is not American. It’s international. So many American Christian leaders don’t seem to realize that.
Inquisitor, I didn’t realize you were a Muslim. LOL.
but it does explain a few things
Inquisitor,
Is that true? Are you? or are you apologizing for things you did not do?
There is a website that is great…
http://www.christiansconfess.com/index.php
Be blessed,
iggy
I align with Kyle’s thoughts “We need to condemn those actions and then say that is not christian but using the christian name. Condemning the actions and apologizing for them are different.”
Merry – the “prosperity gospel” is booming outside of the US. I am aware of that in Africa and SE Asia, perhaps elsewhere as well. The enemy thrives in the world irrespective of politics, geography, etc..
But I also agree that I wouldn’t live in the US just because I was a Christian. My point is that as a Christian, there is no better or worse place … just different places with different issues – but same solution – Jesus Christ. And the right place to be is where He calls you.
Hey Rick,
I facebooked you a burning question
Rick I., yep, I agree.
Iggy, I was kidding about Inquisitor being a Muslim, I thought he was just jokingly “apologizing” for randomness. I hope that’s what he meant . . .
I.
Again, I am not too concerned about the apology thing. I am concerned about this statement “Rick Warren loves to apologize for things he didn’t do, for things other people did ***that weren’t wrong***”
He doesn’t even acknowledge they were wrong.
You must remember though that Farah is really political. Although he is a christian his site wnd.com is more politically(conservitave) than religious. So when you see it through that lens the war on terror is good, the cursades wre good. Well they would admitt to some abuses by a few, they would say overall those where good mission from a govermental poistion. Although I do not speak for him, maybe you should ask for some clarification.
About moving from this country. What is your motivation? Is it self-centered and just about your own personal “growth”? That would be the main question. I have always wanted to travel and study abroad, haven’t yet. Personally I would love Europe, Switzerland. As of right now though I have no urging for missions(can be anything) or anything like that.
Nothing good comes from mixing politics with Biblical truth. Men like Farah are compromised because of their nationalistic bias.
I do not now how he is comprised?
He is a former muslim that is now saved! So that is way he talks so much about issues dealing with the muslim worldview like this letter from the pastor to the muslims. That is why he is passoniate about these things. At least that is the way I see it. I don’t always agree with his atricles but in his reporting I have never really seen too much of a bais. I say too much because everyone has some.
So why does it comprise someone if they are a christian and have nationalistic pride?
It is because they have divided loyalties. Our allegience must be wholly to Christ and none to America. God has no favor toward any nation except Israel.
People that think God is conservative remove the spiritual essence of the Word. You cannot serve two masters and America has become an idol to many. They were offended by Warren mostly because they thought he maligned America, not Jesus. That is idolatry.
He was more concerned about how the pastor’s used the islamic names for the real God.
Why does God only favor one country, Isreal?
Christ is the fuliment of Isreal therfore everyone in Christ is favored by God. It does not matter if you are a Jew or a Greek.
Kyle said:
“About moving from this country. What is your motivation? Is it self-centered and just about your own personal “growthâ€? That would be the main question.”
I think anyone can move wherever they want to, LOL. Wherever God leads them, I should say.
Rick said:
“You cannot serve two masters and America has become an idol to many. They were offended by Warren mostly because they thought he maligned America, not Jesus. That is idolatry.”
That’s why I even mentioned going to another country in the first place. America is not “God’s Chosen Christian Nation” or whatever. Wait Rick just said that nevermind.
merry,
But it does answer a lot of my questions if he is…
I have thought him to be a bit elusive in his own beliefs. In my interactions with Muslim it often runs a course similar to but not quite as bad as with Christian fundamentalists… most the time the Muslim is kinder and gentler though on occasion they can get quite aggressive and angry.
But, if Inq is in fact Muslim, then I would change gears a bit with him as there would be cultural aspects to take into consideration not to mention that he is filtering though a bunch of propaganda that might have been taught to him.
Also, to come here I admit would be a bit misfortune as this is not a forum for the kind of conversation he might really need.
All that said, if he is not, those apologies were a bit strange.
iggy
I think he was showing sarcasim. Not sure though.
most probably… but just in case.
Kyle, God favors Israel because of the promise he made to Abraham. (Genesis 15? Somewhere around there.)
Jesus died for the whole world, but meanwhile the promise He made to Abraham He’ll keep until He comes back. Some Scripture about it:
“25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27And this is[a] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[b]
-Romans 11:25-27.
I know there’s more prophecies about Israel somewhere in the Bible (I don’t have time to look right now). Somewhere there’s a prophecy that Israel will be restored to a complete nation (which happened fairly recently, so that’s exciting.)
Iggy,
“Also, to come here I admit would be a bit misfortune as this is not a forum for the kind of conversation he might really need.
All that said, if he is not, those apologies were a bit strange.”
I hope Inquisitor will tell us for himself what religion he is. I agree, if he is, I hope he didn’t get too bad of a picture of what Christianity is. Things can get pretty crazy here sometimes. I think people here will just tear apart people’s comments and just automatically assume that that person commenting is a Christian, you know? That’s why I sometimes wish everyone could just calm down discuss things politely because non-christians might come across this site . . .