I was listening to the Mars Hill Seattle sermon this week and learned a lot about Isaac Watts. Here’s some info:
In this era hymns weren’t sung in English churches. German Lutherans had been singing hymns for over 100 years. Calvinists in France and Switzerland, however, had not. Calvin had wanted his people to sing only the psalms of scripture. English Protestants of Calvinist parentage had adopted the practice of singing only metrical psalms in worship. These metrical arrangements were awkward (”But we remember will the name/Of our Lord God alone”), the mood was ponderous, the tone of the entire service dreary. One day Watts discovered he couldn’t endure any of it a minute longer. Returning from the service one Sunday morning he complained vehemently to his father about the stodgy psalm-singing that put people off worship. “Why don’t you write a hymn suitable congregational singing?”, his father challenged him. Throughout the afternoon Watts did just that, and at evening worship that day the congregation sang hymn #1, “Behold the glories of the Lamb”. Six hundred and ninety-six followed.
Not everyone thanked him. Some of his contemporaries complained that his hymns were “too worldly” for the church. One critic fumed, “Christian congregations have shut out divinely inspired psalms and taken in Watts’s flights of fancy!”. His hymns outraged many people, split congregations (most notably the congregation whose pastor, years earlier, had been John Bunyan, the author of an English classic), and got pastors fired. Still, the multi-talented thinker knew what his preeminent gift was and why he had to employ it.
The Mars Hill audio also talks about his songs being called “whims” instead of hymns.
It’s nice to know that the ODMs were alive and well, even back then. There is nothing new under the sun.
*Update: Here’s the Mars Hill Seattle Video (thanks Brendt)
![Image of The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Jl6fhDLxL._SL75_.jpg "The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith")
58 Comments(+Add)
Matt,
Another excellent post.
Every generation has it whiners and complainers, I guess.
Sometimes I imagine these type of people complaining to God in eternity why certain people are there with them.
It just goes to show that music, singing, hymns or no hymns, are a cultural thing, and not an issue of the divine absolute, unless the music is blasphemous by objective standards of the Bible (silence on a matter shouldn’t count!).
People’s offense to certain ‘breaking of traditions’ will always be, and has always been. What the ODMs do these days in majoring in the minors is no different than what was going on back then. It’s so painfully obvious that they are the (as some of them might put it) “Spiritual children” of these hecklers, that I wouldn’t be surprised if they lashed out at this post you’ve done in “defense”, showing their guilt.
As for me, I didn’t know any of this information, it was very helpful. Thanks Matt.
Joe
And this is another area where some discernment views lose credibility. The Scriptures are silent about forms and types of music, only that they should sound a certain sound (be clear). I love Hillsong music, I am in worship a raging charismatic complete with dancing, shouting, weeping, kneeling, and anything else the Spirit leads me into.
I am difficult to put into a theological catagory, huh? Nut bar maybe!
I believe they call that…
“Nutbarianism”
Spawned from Regebald Nutbarius of the 16th Century.
Great guy. Burned at the stake by Calvin though. Real sad =(
LOL
Joe
Nice to Joe C’s still on top of his game with an infant at home.
Joe – that was a classic. I want to add it to humor day’s hall of fame. I am still laughing.
Thanks for this article.
Glad I could help guys, lol.
PS, we’re going back to our house this afternoon (which finally after 9 days, has power and heat again! Praise God.)
Joe
Very interesting. And these days, hymns are held up almost as sacred as Scripture.
Errr…this?
He sounds….shudder…emergent!
Joe C.
Who did J. Calvin burn at the stake? For what?
I agree with the post. What I find bad in some songs today is the focus on self instead of God. It is selfish christianty we have in America and is relfected in our worship. I have nothing wrong with new songs. Some are great, styles don’t matter. Even your odm’s like new things. Look at extremetheology.com he has that Dingo lady doing some “slam” poetry. Do they hate anything new, or the message contained with in the new music?
You know that in 50-100 years, when contemporary churches are rapping, today’s worship songs will be just about on the same level as Scripture.
Although, I could care less if churches started rapping straight out of the Bible. The lyrics would be very theologically correct. The music would be sort of like an upbeat version of Gregorian Chant.
One great rapper I listen to is Ambassador. He is the only one. His lyrics are just so biblical and doctrinal sound(has a MDiv). That is what matters to me. I used to have the rest of’em like KJ-52 and a lot of others. But it does not edify me to think about red bull, Mt. Dew and video games. But man o man does the bible every edify me. So there are good musician out there from every style, there are just hard to find.
Now we’re in my territory!
So you don’t listen to KJ-52 because he’s not spiritual enough for you? Did I read that right?
Basically. I want something in christian music to be different from the world. I do not think it is a sin for other people to listen. But my conscience held me captive that I am wasting my time and just listening to it for entertaing myself. That is why I got ride of it. I had all of them KJ52, cross movement(still have some of there stuff), Pillar, TFK, ect……All the “cool ones” at least. i got ride of most of them though because personally if it is not building me up some way then it is wasting time. Never meet are MM(I know this in not how it is spelled it just easier for me) wannabe I am sure he is a christian and sincere, but man I would rather listen to “whirlwind” and all the bible in it then listen to why I should have “mullet pride.”
Thanks for clarifying…
You really should check out LeCrae.
Particulary his song “When the Muzik (that’s how it’s spelled) Stops”
It really explains why he’motivated to do what he does.
Calvin had a few people burned at the stake because they didn’t agree with him. He was a stern and self righteous man with little mercy and grace.
Conjur up any modern images?
* he’s
So Rick.
Who did he burn at the stake?
He did not burn anyone. he testified at a hearing before the city council that what the man was teaching was heresy! He was reluctant to do that and regretted doing it. The counsel then burned him at the stake. It was the civil government that did it. The man was also warned not to come to Geneva but did on his own accord. Calvin did not say burn him and had nothing to do with the government. Do you know how much preaching that man did in one week. He was not worried about the things of this world but the things of God.
Now what you are talking about before you make a blanekt statement. If you disagree with that statement go read a history book. Your staw men and ad hominem attacks are truly sad and hurt many people even the ones that you never meant to hurt.
haha, Kyle that is revisionist history. Calvin said, he was glad to kill Servetus. Come on, I expected better from you.
Yeah he looks good. Most of the guys with Crossmovent have a great biblical core to all of there music while still speaking to the street culutre they came from. Personally I relate to that type of music. So I will check him out. I also personally love Derek Webb, but most of what I listen to is hymns Sturat Neil is my fav along with Jars of Clar and Bart Millards one. I like those so much because of the great biblical content as I already explained.
P.S. you are right he didn’t want him burned; he wanted to BEHEAD him
Bernard Cottret, Calvin: A Biography. Argues that Calvin was directly responsible for 38 executions in Geneva (other scholars argue he was at least indirectly responsible for as many as 58).
Cool, I get to post my damning Calvin quotes again.
Calvin said the following about heretics:
You didn’t want to be on Calvin’s bad side, that’s for sure.
Robert M. Kingdon, Adultery and Divorce in Calvin’s Geneva. Kingdon is one of the foremost scholars in the world on Geneva under Calvin. This book, published by Harvard Press, relies entirely on original sources and presents an incredibly harsh picture of Geneva under Calvin’s rule. For example, a number of children were imprisoned, tortured and even executed for being disrespectful to parents
do you know why he wnated him beheaded?
The main facts therefore may now be summarized thus:
1. That Servetus was guilty of blasphemy, of a kind and degree which is still punishable here in England by imprisonment.
2. That his sentence was in accordance with the spirit of the age.
3. That he had been sentenced to the same punishment by the Inquisition at Vienne.
4. That the sentence was pronounced by the Councils of Geneva, Calvin having no power either to condemn or to save him.
5. That Calvin and others visited the unhappy man in his last hours, treated him with much kindness, and did all they could to have the sentence mitigated.
I got that from here. It is pretty unbiased. Read it for yourself.
http://www.banneroftruth.org/pages/articles/article_detail.php?457
Kyle – Joe Martino, our resident historian, speaketh the truth. You should read the history of Calvin and his revenge. By the way, burning people for heresy? Even Luther, a man given to the flesh, wasn’t a muderer. Calvin was.
Hey Kyle,
Where’d you go? I’ve read a lot of history books. I cited a few for you up there? You pick on Rick and say silly things to him but I’m standing here. I’ve read a lot on this topic.
here.
I’m not even close to a blanket statement yet. What history books have you read on this topic?
It’s not true to history. If it says half of that? I’m not sure it is unbiased base on a perusal of it. Here’s the funny thing about Calvin. Those who support him, don’t really care about history books. They just want to defend their guy. Calvin was a mean man
Wait. It just hit me. You’re arguing from a webpage? Have you even read anything in book format about this guy? (That was your charge to Rick, you know?)
Here is a little tidbit from the very mouth of Calvin:
Calvin stated of Servetus, when writing to his friend William Farel on 13 February 1546:
“Servetus has just sent me a long volume of his ravings. If I consent he will come here, but I will not give my word for if he comes here, if my authority is worth anything, I will never permit him to depart alive (”Si venerit, modo valeat mea autoritas, vivum exire nunquam patiar”).[13]
Kyle,
To say what you did seems rather naive… in fact I see it as the sick whitewashing of Calvin as opposed to his own words and history.
A couple of quotes from John Calvin himself:
7 years before the premeditated murder and mock trial:
“If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight.”
After the murder and mock trial:
“Many people have accused me of such ferocious cruelty that (they allege) I would like to kill again the man I have destroyed. Not only am I indifferent to their comments, but I rejoice in the fact that they spit in my face.”
“Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt.
Servetus’ final words while being burned alive tied to a stake and after recanting and repenting over his (misunderstood) view of the Trinity which is what the trial was about:
“Jesu, thou Son of the eternal God, have compassion upon me!”
Calvin did murder this man… in cold blood… and never repented of it nor showed any sorrow over it.
Now, did Calvin leave us with some great insights and thoughts, yes I would not state otherwise… but to state he was not part of the murder by burning Servetus at the stake is really a lie.
I still think that by Grace Calvin was saved… but I will not lie about the Reformers… be it Luther’s beer drinking and foul language and hatred of Zwingler… or Calvin’s hatred and murder of those who differed from his own views.
iggy
Iggy comes a ridin’ with the truth! You are in the Truth War!
I would like one simple question answered; “Kyle have you read any books on this topic? If yes, which ones. Title’s will do, I can find them myself”
Well I have read Calvin’s letters, and other things pertaining to this topic because it is what a lot of people bring up when discussing Calvin. I am not saying that Calvin is inocent or gulity. But the way you said it.
“Great guy. Burned at the stake by Calvin though. Real sad =(”
About that outrages sum of people, 58, how does he come to that conclusion. I know that Calvin said in many letters that heretics should be killed if they come through Geneva. I will also have to look at the history books you cited and give them a read. it seems to me that 58 would be a great strech. While Calvin did have influence(a lot) in Geneva he was not the judge, nor the excutioner. Sorry if i came of a little upset but most people will just through up vomit with not actually knowing anything on the subject.
What was the heresy?
Kyle,
All due respect, you seem to be white washing Calvin’s history.
It seems that you are the one who did the vomiting on this one, my friend. Those two books treat the matter thoroughly. I myself was at one time a Calvin defender. Then history came in and ruined it all. So it would seem that while you accused Rick of not being that well read on the matter you could be a little more read up on it, no?
It doesn’t matter but Zervetus’s heresy was he denied the Trinity.
Here’s an online article.
Iggy
I agree with everything you said. Those are Calvin’s words. I have never hear of 58 before, so I will read. I still would not consider Calvin a murder. What was Calvin’s intent. While I disagree with it totally. His intent was for him to recant of his doctrine. Before all of this happened these two where talking with each other about the trinity, it is sad that is what they did. I will never be able to realate to the reality of his world though. I can always be more read up on anything. There are always people that will know more one the subject than I do. I do not want to have an iconic view of any saints. The bible never protrays any of his people this way. He shows them for what they really are sinners. I will go get those books if, can you list once more for me?
Here goes the a-typical Calvin defense once they look at history:
Well, he was just a man of his day. We can’t understand the world he lived in. I outrightly reject this argument. He did not act in any manner like a Christian.
Kyle,
I just think one needs to be honest about out heritage and own up to the bad stuff.
As far as Calvin I will state there are many things I agree with him on… but I do not ever see any mandates for us to murder someone in the Name of Jesus and Truth… it seems to run contrary to the message of Grace.
I see this as the core of the issue and misunderstanding by men like MacArthur who miss that God needs no protecting… we need his protecting or we will go about murdering one another becuase we think we are more right(eous) than they are.
No one is right(eous) not one… except Jesus alone.
iggy
iggy
It isn’t even the obvious fleshly manner of Calvin’s life. It is more how modern Calvinists attempt to misrepresent him which indicates that view him as an idol. Who would want to be called by the name of a murderer? How can the father of your theology be as non-Christian in his life as was Calvin?
Luther was a fleshly man, given to temper, given to drink, foul mouthed, and a monster anti-semite. Let us be honest about Father Calvin as well.
Other than that, he was a nice guy, though.
I also heard that Calvin kicked puppies.
“I also heard that Calvin kicked puppies. ”
That, Phil, is a lie. Calvin had his standards!
It was cats, and as Rob Bell said in everything is Spiritual…as Adam’ s naming the animals he looks at this thing. He says, How about Cat? God looks over and says, “I didn’t make that!”
That’s funny, I don’t care who are you.
Kyle and Joe,
he was a man of his times… as we are today… but God is the God of eternity and His Love covers a multitude of sins…
I pray that Calvin is with Jesus for if he is not, then there is no hope for me! I may not have “murdered” but i am one as Jesus taught to do so in your heart is as if you did… so we are all murderers and thieves and lairs and whatever else.
I just think it sad the most of the oversight of Calvin’s sin as well as the other Reformers… (how seemed to be re-imaging Christianity in their day) are held in such high esteem as to want one to be dishonest about them and worse, use them to judge others! LOL!
I would rather be in-line with those who are thought to be heretics but show love and compassion than to be in with those mouth “grace to you” but attack you if you step outside their view (yes that was a veiled code! LOL!)
iggy
Iggy, you know I wasn’t defending Calvin, right?
Joe,
I meant to quote you on the part about that “man of the times” defense… I think there is merit to that, yet not in the way they often use the defense… it is as if that is as the Blood of Jesus in their defense…
I say, yep, Calvin was a man and did stupid things and murdered a bunch of people… yet, this was a time when everyone was murdering each other…
The Catholics murdered the Protestants and Anabaptist.
The Protestants murdered the Catholics and Anabaptist.
Both the Catholics and Protestants murdered the Anabaptist…
I may be wrong, but I do not recall the Anabaptist’s murdering anyone… correct me if I am wrong though…
Yet, one cannot negate the contribution of Luther and Calvin and others in how they got Christianity refocused on the Bible… though I think that has swayed too far in the neglect of the Holy Spirit… yet even that can go too far as in the case of Tertulian (who was not a reformer, but became a Montanist in his later years which was a heretical movement).
iggy
No, you’re right. The Anabaptist were peace lovers.
Where does the “church” get it’s justification to kill for heresy?
But he answered and said , Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. LET THEM ALONE: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch (Matthew 15:13,14 KJV).
Hey Kyle et al,
I’m very sorry I started this heated debate with my attempted funny remark.
You gotta read the context of what I was saying…
Most people know and accept that Calvin murdered some people who disagreed with him. So I was just playing off that when I stated
“Great guy. Burned at the stake by Calvin though. Real sad =(”
The guy I was reffering to was make believe, so it’s hard for me to understand why this couldn’t have just been a humorous quip and left at that. Sorry to cause problems.
Joe
Calvin was never an actual pastor.
He was a lawyer.
Calvin makes Ken look like Dr. Phil. His life and Christian persona was more like Attila the Hun than is was like Jesus.
Joe,
Great, now that we know who to blame… let’s solve this problem… get yer stakes ready guys… Joe’s confessed to the crime!
iggy
Help I’m being repressed!!!!
Thanks to Brendt, I just updated the post with the Mars Hill Seattle video.