Who Says You Can’t Find Anything Good at CR?N?
While I can’t say that it is, stylistically, my cup of tea, I am somewhat familiar with Buckhead Church (one of the three Northpoint Church campuses in Atlanta, under the senior pastorship of Andy Stanley). Buckhead is located in urban Atlanta, and has a demographic similar to that of Mars Hill, Seattle (read – young, energetic, highly artistic, located in a highly unchurched area, etc.).
In November, they had a short series of messages called “Illusions”, which dealt with (Part I) being decieved by our own “goodness”, and (Part II) trying to project a spotless image contrary to your inner nature – including your sin. It was preached by the campus pastor, Jeff Henderson.
Here is a YouTube clip of the opening of the series (which is apparently beyond what is allowed by the gatekeepers of all that is ‘holy’):
Like I noted, stylistically it would probably not fit in with the worship services in my community, but I know a number of people who attend – or have attended – the Northpoint campus churches, and I praise God that He has raised up communities like these to serve him. Sadly, living, vibrant, God-loving churches are offensive to some folks who will pretty much find anything – no matter how petty – to criticize.
![Image of The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Jl6fhDLxL._SL75_.jpg "The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith")
22 Comments(+Add)
I don’t get the point of putting this music up, because music, in and of itself is not wrong. And though I am more used to a participatory call to worship, I don’t see any thing wrong with the style.
But, heres my qualm and my challenge: Who is ‘church’ for? My answer (and I believe the Bible) is that church is for believers, to build them up and to equip them to do good works. If this church is more for the ‘crowd’ (like seekers) and they didn’t stay past that opener, did they hear the Gospel presented? There was one line that disturbed me in that song- put your eyes on me-which is radically different than how we choose to do church. We, through the service of worship, are trying to get the congregation to put their eyes on Jesus. Every aspect of the service is to lift our eyes in worship towards him. From the opening prayer, to the opening song to the offering, to the message, and the benediction, it is all so we can place our eyes on Jesus.
This particular song did not do that for me, personally.
How many non-church people leave after the opening music?
Joe,
I have seen a few, before I was a pastor.
But maybe that has changed. The point is, was that song magnifying Jesus or a preaching series?
IDK, I didn’t watch it and to be honest I don’t intend to.
Joe,
Actually if it was separated from the context it was pretty cool music!
I don’t live anywhere near Hotlanta (to know Buckhead), but I can tell you that the modern worship service in my church community (which, stylistically, is only dialed back one or two notches from Buckhead) is always near capacity of our worship center (~1,200), and you don’t normally see anyone leaving early, even though the sermon normally runs 40-50 minutes.
thanks for posting the link back to the tattoo video, I never watched it before thinking it was just a video of a pastor getting a tattoo, and since I love pastors and am okay with tatttoos, didn’t feel the need to watch it.
But I checked it out and the things the music pastor in the video said about ministry where a real encouragment to me right now trying to balance family and ministry.
pastorboy,
I think that church is the believers and is the literal Body of Jesus… as that is what the bible teaches…
So I see something like this though over blown may edify and encourage.
Be blessed,
iggy
pastorboy said:
i agree that that any church service as a whole ought to magnify Jesus. I don’t think it makes sense to chop it up into little pieces and ask that if one piece was all a non-believer heard was it sufficient to relay the Gospel. If an unbeliever walked in to a any service, listened to 5 minutes of the actual sermon and then left, there’s no guaranty that portion of the sermon presented the gospel. that song was meant to get the crowd thinking about what an illusion is to prepare the way for the point of the sermon. i think that actually adds to the effectiveness of the message which in turn does magnify Jesus.
Pastorboy said:
A ‘church’ and a ‘church service’ are two separate things. Actually, I think think attempting to build up believers and equip them for good works in the context of a Sunday service is near impossible. It really can’t effectively be done with most people outside of a one-on-one discipleship relationship.
Phil,
God bless you man, you got it. I agree with your sentiment here.
Though, after watching that video, I gotta admit…it was way way way more like a rock concert than a church service, to me. Is that band even Christian? I don’t think the song is…
I’m curious as to their motivation for doing that. I’m not condemning them by any means, just trying to figure out why they did things that way. I think Chris L talking about how they have a different enviroment of people there in comparison to many churches is relevant too. I just think that a (possibly) non-christian song used to open up ‘church’ is…well is that even necessary? To what goal or end?
I’m the artsy fartsy type, I’m young and energetic, and came from a “scientific elitist/cocky knowitall post-mod” background, and I still found this to be way over the top. So I just wonder if these people are mainly there to feel cool, hear good music, and a feel good sermon…or are they there to give themselves to Jesus, learn, and worship God? I don’t know, that’s why I’m asking.
Personally, that much over the top style of church doesn’t appeal to me. I think something like http://www.lifechurch.tv is my limit. But I go to a fairly traditional style protestant chapel still anyways. We do some contemporary music though.
Joe
You have to evaluate this video clip in the context that North Point does ministry. They have three distinct environments that they call the Foyer, Living Room, and Kitchen with each one being progressively more discipleship oriented. For the most point all services at North Point and its multiple campuses are targeted towards the unchurched. They used a song that those attending would not only recognize, but would reinforce what was being taught. North Point uses small groups meeting in homes for discipleship. I’ve attended this campus and no one got up and left at any point during the service. As a matter of fact the last time I was there Andy Stanley taught one of the best messages on church discipline that I have ever heard.
That’s good to hear Rev. Scottie. Personal discipleship is where ‘it’s’ at.
That is good to hear as far as the personal discipleship…
I still don’t consider what most seeker churches do is ‘church’- that is a worship service that is focussed on the true Seeker- God, it is focussed on attracting and retaining ’seekers’ those who may or may not have made a decision about God yet.
I think the seeker method is upside down, that the church service ought to be for equipping and discipling of believers so that they can go out and have small groups where the can live incarnationally with people who are seeking, and lead them to Christ.
That is not to mention evangelism as a daily habit.
See, I have to be honest here, this is what bugs me on a huge level. The information that Rev. Scottie put up is easy for anyone to find with a little bit of research, yet almost none of the ODM’s could walk you through North Point’s ministry process. They just want to stand up and criticize, and ride their personal little hobby horse.
I realize there are some that may have actually investigated the strategy but I have a feeling they are far and few between.
Phil,
I would argue that it can get done within the context of a weekly church service, as well as small groups.
In our church service, as I have said, every part of the service is all about magnifying Jesus Christ. In our small groups, we continue that magnification. In our Sunday School classes for young and old we do the same. It all about who your focus is on: the Seeker (God) or the seeker (man)
Thats my perspective.
Are you sure about this?
So when someone leaves and goes to the bathroom? When a person falls asleep during service? These are “parts” to your service… these all glorify God?
iggy
this may have been said already earlier, but an opener like that doesn’t always serve the purpose on the surface of glorifying God in a very obvious manner — sometimes they are used to present the problem — much in the manner that someone has to know they are a sinner before they can know that they need God.
To me, it’s fairly easy to see — with that line in the song “put your eyes on me” or whatever it was, and the topic about illusions having something to do with looking like you have it all together on the outside for other to see, while the inside is not.
To me, a message is more effective when people can see the problem in the first place, and what God can do and why it should be fixed.
Those are just my initial observations. I don’t necessarily like the song, but the lights are pretty cool
Excellent statement, Phil. It’s something that’s echoing what I’m reading…the Sunday service is sort of ineffectual for me. I can too easily fake my way through it — glazed eyes, wooden smile — I know the performance well. However, when sitting down with a Christian friend or two…nope. Can’t fake it at all. They call my bluffs, suggest correction gently, don’t let me wallow, and help me despite my protestations that everything is fine.
I would agree with Julie, but that is still the church…just in smaller pieces
I looked at the links, and I fail to see the point of CRN linking to them. I assume the folks there don’t like what they see at Buckhead Church in general and Los in particular, but they don’t actually come out and write anything negative. What are they wanting their readers to know, other than they know how to mock a church (calling it “Buckethead” instead of Buckhead)?
Augh!!! Two Matt Browns commenting. This is going to get confusing.