in which “eating the flesh and drinking the blood” of someone was basically taking on all of that person’s beliefs and characteristics.

that makes more sense actually.

I agree. We should not encourage people to come to Christ to avoid Hell.

Just to point out… you are talking in code that means…

“I deny hell and the wrath of God.” to the ODM’s… at least if you are one of their targets…

iggy

I agree. We should not encourage people to come to Christ to avoid Hell. This again is motivated by selfishness. Which is why the ONLY way to avoid leading someone into following Christ for the wrong reasons is to give them the ENTIRE message of the Gospel.
I’ll spell it out, just so you know.

1. We are hopelessly bound for hell because of our wicked, vile, sinful hearts. We have done NOTHING but offend God with all that we are and try to be.

2. God is HOLY and must punish US.

3. God in His HOLY love, gave us His son, whom He later crushed and destroyed because of His anger towards US and OUR sin.

4. Anyone who will stop trying to make themselves to be ‘good’ people and place their faith in Christ, will be saved by HIS grace through the instrument of their faith in Christ.

5. If we repent and trust in HIM and in HIM alone, then we will be saved.

So what’s the motive for a sinner to come to Christ??

Is it to avoid hell? Is it to find a purpose? Is it to have peace or Joy? NO!!! The only motive is because of HIS loving kindness towards us, by saving us from hell and crushing His own Son in our place.

“For it is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance”

I love reading and studying history. However it is not necessary to know and have scholarship in those areas to understand the Scripture. The historical context of the Scriptures was important to those who lived in the day that they were written. To them and all who came after, the life which is in the Word is paramount.

That’s really unbelievable to hear someone admit to that. You really can make Scripture say about whatever you want it to say using this hermeneutic. Once you strip away historical context, it becomes one big allegory, which is basically what the liberal theology they rail against advocates.

This is really weird, because I had three folks’ in mind who had misappropriated this particular passage, and only one writes for an ODM (and it’s not the one who was somehow offended…)

I’ve thought that another reason they left is because Jesus told them to “eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood”.

There are a number of scholars, who I tend to agree with, who view this as an artifact of Hebraic thought – which communicates primarily in concrete pictures and stories, rather than abstract definitions and concepts – in which “eating the flesh and drinking the blood” of someone was basically taking on all of that person’s beliefs and characteristics.

As such, this would never have been understood by the people as a call to cannibalism (of any sort – including transubstantiation), but rather a call to belief and action.

Viewed in context, you have people looking for salvation in a conquering leader and that leader telling them that salvation comes from taking on all of his belief and practice (his flesh and blood). Thus, he wasn’t meeting their expectations with the answer he gave.

You are right to say to accept Jesus to avoid going to Hell is selfishness, looking to get what you can for yourself. Paris Reidhead gave a message called 10 sheckels and a shirt, which addresses this.

Why do you come to Jesus? You come to Jesus and you follow Christ because you need Him. We are monsters on iniquity, and we have the wrath of God abiding on us. Yes, we deserve hell and a thousand times worse. We need Jesus because we have offended God. We should come to God through Jesus because he is worthy, and does not Jesus deserve the reward for his suffering? ( a redeemed life)

We should come to Him, dying to ourselves, and picking up our cross and following Him. We should offer ourselves daily a living sacrifice, presenting ourselves to Him, because he is worthy.

That is in opposition to everything this world tells us.

It ALL stems from selfishness. Everyone is led to Jesus for these temporal and selfish reasons, and then they are told to ask Jesus into their heart and so they do, but because they only follow Him for the benefits, when they stand before Him, they shall only hear, “depart from me, I do not know you”

I have a little more faith in the power of the Holy Spirit than this.

Isn’t this how we all start? I asked “Jesus into my heart” at 17 years old. At 35 I’m still not sure (actually quite positive I’m not)I’m living the life God intented for me to live. I’m a miserable no good sinner, saved by grace, struggling to get it, and hopefully will one day hear “Well done”. Not because I was some super Christian but rather because I continued to run the race.

I’d say you’re half right.

Neil