I’ve been studying more recently on the the use of parable, example and story vs. expository teaching, as the former methods have been proven to be much more “sticky” (i.e. getting the message to ’stick’) when teaching principles to adults than the latter.
In this light, I was wondering what a series of parables or stories might look like when framing the debate between ODM’s and the all-encompassing ECM ‘menace’. And here on my lunch break, this video might do well in symbolizing some aspects of the non-”conversation” between the two in many venues…
I like this example because you can’t clearly show that either the cop/ODM or the kid/ECM was completely in the right in their actions, and you can see how each can become a stereotype that is completely non-indicative of their demographic, as a whole.
(Note to self:Â Police officers don’t like to be called “dude”. File next to: They don’t like “bro” either…)
90 Comments(+Add)
when, when can Dude finally break through?
I use it all the time and have had it up to here with people who can’t stand it!
Sorry, bro, but I think it’s time has not yet come for this guy. The dude has some serious problems, tho…
I would hope this officer was suspended. He was out of control and needs counselling and his manhandling of the kid could bring litigation. Don’t call me dude, call me the
Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler.
Rick,
He was.
Seventeen years on the force with no complaints, what does that tell you. It’s a good thing those boys wern’t black or they may have gotten punched!
wow, I agree Rick this guy needs to be off the streets, abusive, threats, I really hope he’s gone. I have watched it a few times and haven’t found the disrespect in here, maybey I missed it cause the kids are a little hard to hear. To this guy apparantly “Learn how to speak” means “Learn how to speak exactly how I do and give me only titles that boost my ego”. Also notice how tons of people walk by while this guy is manhandling these kids and do nothing to help. This is a shame. I know plenty of great cops and not a single one would act the same way in this situation.
Stopping these kids from skateboarding here most likley a valid point, insurance hazards and what not probably mean they shouldn’t be here.
This is a pretty good image for the ODM/ECM debate. The kids do look to be making a few mistakes (skateboarding here, not giving up the board at once), but the Cop doesn’t even spend much time addressing those two actual mistakes, he spends most of his time jumping down their throat for things that aren’t mistakes to anyone but him, how they talk etc. He then gives a COMPLETLEY disproprtionate set of actions to what the kids did. These are the same mistakes I see with the ODM’s ignoring the actual concerns with an appropriate response, they jump right on the minors with bizzarly disproportionate force. Instead of saying they disagree with these small thing, it’s right to heresy, apostasy and name calling.
The kids make the mistake on the other side of not actually discussing the issues at hand, the laws they are having a problem understanding or following and such, instead they just ignore this guy treating him like “The Man”. It’s the same mistakes I tend to see in the fringes of the ECM camp, dismissing the actual critics a little too quickly and defending actual mistakes a little too far.
Not to hijack this again, but have there been, in line with what the cop says, any killings related to someone calling anyone “Dude” on record? Really?
I like how the news report of this tries to discredit the boy saying he never filed an offical complaint. How many 14 year olds do you know who know how to file a complaint, or would go home and be like “Mom I was skateboarding illegally and this cop freaked out and I think he’s in some sort of violation, can we file this?”
I mean come on.
This may be a little off topic, but this image really explains a lot when it comes to people posting nothing but criticisms, and doing it anonymously:
http://www.problogger.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/disagreement.jpg
This police officer could teach evangelism classes to the ODMs.
Man, I want to contribute to the OFFICER’S defense fund!!! A little over the top maybe…but I’ve personally had it with smart-aleck skater-DUDE punks that can’t read (and won’t obey) a “No Skateboarding Allowed” sign. Wah! I’m calling my mom.
Keith,
Problem is, even if the officer was right, he was wrong. I expect 13 year old skaters to call people dude and man, I don’t expect a cop to start screaming like that.
Dude should never see the street as a cop again. He should be fired or on desk duty forever.
Honestly, if you can’t see what the officer did was wrong, I really don’t know what to say.
“I expect 13 year old skaters to call people dude and man,…” I expect my sons to NEVER address someone in authority like that. I still say “yessir” and “yesmam.”
I already admitted the officer went “over the top,” but I cannot excuse the boy’s lack of respect. No excuse.
If more kids were raised to respect authority, pull their pants up and quit show off their underwear, get that smart-aleck “you’re not the boss of me” look off their faces and –to quote the officer– have a “boot up their butt” a few times, maybe our prisons wouldn’t be so full and there wouldn’t be so many thugs out there that think a job is taking something from someone else “just because I want it.”
You don’t have to say anything…which is EXACTLY how that boy should have responded. You get out of kids what you expect. I told both of my boys about the video and they both agreed–”you don’t speak to ANY police officer like that, under any circumstance.”
We do things a little different down here in the south.
Romans chapter 9 ?
Keith,
Pure garbage. The kid didn’t mean disrespect by that. The cop, on the other hand, after further reflection should be thrown off the force. If your standard for cops was as high as your standard for 13 year olds you’d agree.
The cop was completely out of line. If he gets that out of control of his emotions from a couple of 14 year olds… I question his ability to deal with anyone in a civilized manner. Yes, Keith, he is a cop- but he is human. He is not God. I didn’t see anything disrespectful in these boys- I think they were scared more then anything. The cop was out of control.
Anger is always a sign of fear. I wonder what this cop was/is afraid of. When a person actually has true authority and isn’t doing anything wrong there is no fear. We just discussed this today in one of my classes.
All I can say is there are three of us (me and my two sons) that saw it differently. That’s the great thing about America, ain’t it…DUDES!
Just wondering: Why didn’t the kid or his family file some kind of charges when this incident occured–LAST SUMMER? Maybe there’s more to the story we didn’t see after the camera was turned off.
If it were my kid, while I’d be pissed off, I wouldn’t be litigious. Especially since there wasn’t any type of injury incurred.
But I’m a pretty chill dude.
True, cuz for all we know he did file something.
If that were my kid, when he got home, I’d smack a pop-knot on his head so big it would need its own haircut!!! Then I’d call the officer and THANK him for instilling some fear in my stupid son. Joe, that’s some good fear right there!
I wonder if part of the possible out of court settlement was that he officer was punished.
That would have been enough for me…
iggy
Joe: The article linked earlier in this thread implies no charges were ever filed by the family–unless I missed it.
If you listen to the last bit, the officer starts to comment on the camera… “You got that camera on… if I find myself on….” then it is cut off….
Yep, makes you wonder what came next… “the local news, I will…”
iggy
Wonderful Keith, I’m so glad that is exactly what Jesus does with us. What a way to show Jesus to your children.
Keith,
I’m glad you’re not my dad.
Joe: Oh, now you’re gonna drag Jesus into it?!….
Maybe my description of corporal punishment was a little too colorful. Take it from a father of a kid with ADHD…”time out” don’t work. My kids got spankings. I won’t apologize for that.
I guess Jesus objects to things like:
- Proverbs 19:29 Judgments are prepared for scoffers, And blows for the back of fools.
- Proverbs 13:24 He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.
- Proverbs 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
- Proverbs 23:13 Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.
I’m beginning to understand why the crime rate is somewhat higher up north.
Mandy: Probably more than you’ll ever know.
um. who said anything about not spanking a kid when he NEEDS it? however, saying ‘dude’ to a police offer is not such a time. thanks for jumping to conclusions though!
Keith,
I “spank” my kids also… but this guy was out of control.
iggy
Keith: We do things a little different down here in the south.
Read: Y’ain’t from ’round heah, are ya boy?
My understanding of the events says that Tim’s completely right when he said that the “kid didn’t mean disrespect by” saying “dude”. I moved from Philly to Atlanta when I was 12. The common affirmative response in Philly regardless of the age/authority of the speaker or hearer was “yeah”. No disrespect was inherently intended. In fact, if I had said “yes, sir” or “no, ma’am”, the adult may have suspected that I was being a smart-aleck.
Then I move down here and some of my teachers get all bent out of shape that I’m being disrespectful. Finally one teacher said to them, “Wait a minute — think about who you’re talking about here” (I was a disgustingly good kid). And so most of my teachers chilled out and gave me time to get used to what was proper for that society. Now I say “sir” to the 17-year-old behind the register at McDonald’s.
This point actually strongly bolsters Chris’ parallel of the cop to the ODM’s, as their (faulty) assumption is that if they see externals that aren’t proper for their society, they often assume that the internals must be bad.
To paraphrase Jesus, “Not everyone that says ‘Dude, dude’….”
But, let’s cut the cop some slack. Maybe he was having a bad day. Maybe someone who actually was being disrespectful said something like, “Get a load of that dude with the pasty white legs driving that glorified go-cart”, and so the word set him off.
ha ha to brendt.
Iggy: Again, already admitted the officer stepped out of line. The kid is NOT without guilt just because the policeman lost it. Frankly, he probably has to deal with snot-nosed brats all day long and finally just got a fill of it.
I can’t count how many times I’ve found kids skateboarding at our church and politely asked them to leave and received all kinds of mouthy responses or—they leave while I’m standing there. As soon as I go back into the building, THEY’RE BACK. For some reason, many kids (and adults) today think the rules don’t apply to them. Don’t believe me? Sit at a stop sign sometime and just watch.
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Mandy: You said–”saying ‘dude’ to a police offer is not such a time.” Maybe not in Michigan. Down here, you address adults as “Mr.” or “Mrs. Last Name.” We don’t respond with “yeah” or “yep” — it’s “Yes, sir” or “No Ma’m.” “Dude” is NEVER an approriate way for a child to address ANY adult. My kids do. All the young people in our church do it. I’ve NEVER been address as “dude” or my first name. It’s quite refreshing.
There’s another article in which we read from the mother:
My own reaction is a) I’d file charges against the cop; and b) I’d leave Keith’s topknot on my kid’s head.
Here’s another article, as well.
Keith,
I love how you act as if these kids saying dude is like saying a cuss word… it’s not.
FWIW, here in Indiana, “dude” and “man” are pretty common, though if I don’t know someone, I use “sir”…
Mandy: Have you EVER LIVED in the southern part of the United States? If not, I wouldn’t expect you to understand. If the kid HAD cussed, that’s even worse.
It’s called respect. Honor to whom honor and respect is due. In words and in actions.
I was in California several years ago and I answered an older woman’s question with “Yes, ma’m.” She couldn’t get over it. She said she had lived in the state over 20 years and hadn’t heard “that term” since moving from Kansas.
I notice you don’t respond to my statements re: the respect of my children and those in our congregation. I guess you’re just not used to hearing children speak with respect to adults.
The article Chris L linked states: “Many viewers have emailed Eyewitness News supporting the officer suggesting that what occurred before the confrontation was not shown on the tape.” Hmm. You think there was more going on there and the poor little skaterdude said a little more than we got to hear?
The officer was out of control and seemed to be a big jerk. Some of these kids come from horrible homes and need to have an adult care. A semi-intelligent man can be strict without being overcome by his emotions. They train for that.
Keith,
No I have not lived in the South, but have visited plenty of times. I understand what you’re saying with it being a cultural thing – but the incident did not take place in the South… so I’m not sure why you keep bringing that up.
I’m saying they didn’t cuss. And I would hate to see his reaction to people who are actually being disrespectful and cussing or worse to him.
I don’t really understand what you want me to say to the kids in church? I don’t see it as a respect thing- I see it is a cultural, 1960’s thing. Our culture is less formal then it was back in the day. I don’t call anyone Mr. or Mrs. I call them by their first name and smile at them. (I do call my infant son Sir on occasion.)
Kids at our church do speak respectfully- but most of them are afraid of the adults because they get yelled at for running in church.
Unless he said “I’ve got a gun” the cop was out of line. Quit trying to justify the cop’s actions by poitning out that someone else might be guilty. Its quite Clintonian.
The kids may have said something that made the officer made, but should that justify the headlock and throwing him to the ground?
Neil
The only person in that video who showed himself without honor was the cop.
Tim: And you REALLY wonder why we don’t get anywhere with this ODM / Emergent / etc. debate? (Where’s that “slap fight” video)
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Mandy, er uh, excuse me, Mrs. Reed: so I guess because YOU do it your way and smile about it…that makes you right and me wrong. As long as I know the rules. I brought up the “south” to contextualize my opinion. They obviously define “respect” differently in Michigan. They’re apparently are paying for it, too.
Neil: I will admit the headlock, etc was a bit much. Loss of control there.
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If you folks think I’m off on this one…let’s talk about me ideas for running our State Penitentiary..he he he! Joe Arpaio ain’t got NOTHIN’ on me!
Bunch o’ crybabies.
It isn’t the ODM/emergent debate, it is the teachings that we should discuss.
Yes, Detroit being a sucky city is all because of not saying m’am! I get it now. It has nothing to do with having the highest unemployment rate in the country, crime rate (that has nothing to do with not saying Mrs.) commute, poverty…
I’m just telling you that I think saying Mrs. so and so is from 1960, and I would feel really ridiculous saying it. And of course, my way is the right way, or I would change it. Just like you think YOUR way is the right way… or you would change it.
I still say “Mr.” and “Mrs.” and “Yes or No Mam” or “Sir” depending on the gender, and I still think this cop needs fired.
I’d love for Keith to come up here and run on a platform of “say yes ma’am for great justice!!!”. It’d be great lulz.
Keith,
So if someone abuses your child, and you think it is wrong, then you are a crybaby?
Just trying to follow your logic there…
If I saw that officer doing that to my child, I would have ended up in jail defending my child from the abusive officer.
igs
The crime rate may be higher up north or it may be just that you southerners are better at keeping your secrets.
Mr/Mrs Reed: So because I don’t have a job, I’m entitled to murder someone? Good bit of info to know if I’m ever in Detroit without a job.
Detroit being a s**ky city is because people make their own rules. Maybe it starts with how you address people or maybe it starts just because people are what they are…NOT because they had a bad childhood. I’m just glad they’re living up there with you and not down here. Now where did I sit that glass of ice old Southern-style lemonade?
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Iggy: That kid wasn’t abused–he got the livin’ tar scared out of him!!! I already told you what I’d do if that officer talked to my kid like that. I’d shake his hand. The kid was breaking the law AND HE KNEW IT. He’s 13/14 and he can read or do they not teach that up north either?
You guys really need to get out more often.
===
Joe: I’d say our lower crime rate is linked to more frequent use of lethal injection and the gas chamber. Thank God for states like Texas, Florida and Oklahoma.
Keith,
A 6 foot man took on a 4′5″ 13-14 y/o boy and put him in a choke hold and took his skateboard… this was the same type of hold an officer would use on a offender who was resisting arrest.
A choke hold on a child is abuse…
There was excessive force… it was not needed or necessary.
I was in youth ministry for a while an was able to get a kid to listen without a choke-hold or that type of abuse.
iggy
I’d lay off reading SoL for the near future, you didn’t used to have to create a straw man in a discussion.
Keith, please stop with the south is perfect crap. seriously. I’m sorry I offended you by saying sucky (but it’s better than dude!)
We interviewed for a job in OK this past spring and we met the church. I did not hear Mr/Mrs one time when I was there. Just thought I’d throw that out.
Also, you really didn’t respond to anything I wrote. (and I think unemployment has a lot more to do with murder then saying Mrs/Mr.)
Sure Mr. Keith, sure. So if you stop teaching your kids to say Sir and Mam something I teach my kids to say by the way, your murder rate goes up. What happens when you let your cops beat up on kids? See Keith, here’s my problem, your making it sound like it’s OK for the cop to beat a kid up because the kid did something wrong. My question to you is why? Assume I agree with you that the kid was over the top, why does that make the cops reaction right? You know, why does one wrong make the other right?
Ok, I just watched it. That kid didn’t do anything wrong.That cop was on a major power trip. He needs to spend time in jail for assault. He threatened the kid.
The last part was the best, “If I find myself on YouTube….[camera stops recording] What was he afraid of? Keith, you’re defense of this man is disgusting.
Joe,
I agree with you. The cop seemed like a grade-A jerk to me. He probably spent most of his time driving around in his little cop-wagon giving parking tickets.
He used physical force without provocation. What else needs to be said?
Mr/Mrs Reed: Unemployment is NO excuse. Give me a break. Michigan, get a job! (See, I fixed it.)
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Mrs. Reed: I DID address SOME of your comments. I responded to:
- your comment about your being glad I’m not your dad.
- your comment re: whether the boy cursed or used the word “dude.”
- your Detroit is s***ky comment
Oh, and to adress your- “Keith, please stop with the south is perfect cr*p”comment. Do I get the sense you’re a little envious? We’re not perfect. Never said we were. But it sure sounds nicer here than up there. You guys aren’t planning on moving, are you? The culture shock may be a little much.
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Iggy: Third time, champ. I’m not defending the officer putting the chock hold on the kid. ALL of my comments have reference his words. AGAIN, already admitted the officer went too far physically.
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Joe: Thinking about your comment–”your [sic] making it sound like it’s OK for the cop to beat a kid up because the kid did something wrong.” You know what–maybe that’s the problem. Maybe enough people aren’t suffering the consequences of their actions. Maybe if people were a little bit scared of the judicial system, etc. they’d think twice before they skate (ON PURPOSE) where they’re not supposed to or take a gun and shoot someone for $20. Maybe if we made prison look like PRISON no one would want to go there. That just might solve part of the problem.
Joe, we ain’t gonna see eye-to-eye on this on. I’m sick of molly-coddling law-breakers, and especially prisoners with weight rooms, cable TV, three “squares”, libraries, etc. Knock some heads! Quit putting up with the junk the thugs are spewing. Detroit doesn’t HAVE to be the worst city. Enforce the laws…and sometimes make it hurt.
Any of you people ever done a “ride-along” with a police officer? You ought to try it. It’s an eye-opener!
Keith, with respect you and I are done on this thread. At least I am done interacting with you about this. To make the leaps that your making is silly. Jumping from a kid skateboarding (incidentally, I have a question for you about skateboarding on my blog) to murder is silly. Cut back on your sugar or something. You’re trying to make this kid pay for all the problems with the judicial system, what you’re failing to see is this cop is the law breaker. Your rhetoric in your last post scares me that you raised children. And yes, I’ve done many many ride alongs. This cop was out of line. Keith, check into therapy. I mean that. If this cop was so right, why was he scared to be on tape? Every cop I know loves their dash cam’s because it protects them. Wow. OK, Keith, I’m sure you’ll have something to say to me on this one, so I’ll leave you the last word.
Would it be overly catty of me to note that Keith conveniently ignores the statements of a fellow Southerner when they don’t align with his viewpoint?
Would it be overly catty of me to note that a
Southern(heck, from any region) gentleman would never speak to a lady the way that Mandy has been spoken to, regardless of what she said or didn’t say?(BTW, Tim, not getting onto you for not “defending her honor”. I know how mad my wife gets at me when I try to do that.)
Joe: All I’m trying to say is: it starts small. Unchecked–it grows.
I have been in counseling…I mean that.
“I’ve done many many ride alongs”…then you know that “Police officers don’t like to be called ‘dude’.” 8^)>
It’s been FUN boys and girls. Let’s do this again sometime.
Brendt: “…gentleman would never speak to a lady the way that Mandy has been spoken to, regardless of what she said or didn’t say?”
Point out my offense and I will gladly apologize.
Keith, I often appreciate your POV and imagine if we lived near each other we’d be friends. Peace to you tonight.
Mr. Brendt: I don’t need your assessment of my offense toward Tim’s wife. I’ll handle this one myself.
Mrs. Reed: If I have spoken to your rudely or have not conducted myself in a manner that respects your gender or right to your opinion, or simply the fact that you are a human being, I APOLOGIZE and would ask that you forgive me.
I thought we were just having a discussion here. My bad.
Peace to you as well, Mr. Rev Joe Martino! 8^)> (I’m off to check out your blog)
Crap, now I have whiplash.
Would it be overly catty of me to note that my main point got ignored a second time?
Ruling from the chair: Yes, it would.
OK, then I won’t say it.
Keith, We’re cool. I never said anything to suggest otherwise. We can discuss without it being personal.
You can call me Mandy really, no titles needed. Thanks
Keith,
His words were abusive also…
iggy
I seem to be coming in a little late to the back and forth, but Keith mentioned something I want to address.
You mean to tell me that you have youths coming to your church and you’re running them off?????
I remember a story about a a church in the city that as the city grew the neighborhood changed. Eventually the surrounding community became, lower income, dilapitated, higher crime, and predominately african american. Some of the neighborhood kids would come over to the church parking lot to play basketball. One of the deacons got upset that they were doing this and said that the church needed to put up a fence all around the building. What in the world are we here for people?
christian,
are you talking about Cinci? ha ha.
and yeah.. I don’t really see the problem with kids skateboarding?
Mandy, who cares if it’s skateboarding or shuffleboard. If skateboarding is outlawed everywhere else then the church should provide a place to skateboard and some people to be there. Even if it isn’t illegal, these students are actually coming to the church… what a great opportunity for evangelism, for mentoring, for relationship building, for loving others, etc. Wouldn’t it be awesome if the church provided sandwiches and pop once a week when the students show up. I’m lame with ideas, but there’s a ton of good things that could be done.
Plus, I think it is absolutely wrong for the church to ever have the attitude “we don’t want you here.” And before somebody says “we want them, we just don’t want them to do THAT.” when you say that, they hear “we don’t want you.”
Christian, I’m agreeing with you. I was more responding to Keith- as in, I don’t see what the problem is with skateboarding specifically- it’s not like playing baseball in the parking lot where windows can get broken, etc.. or whatever lame excuse people want to come up with for loving the church building more then people.
Christian: The answer (in our area of the country–maybe not yours) is LAW SUIT HAPPY PARENTS. I understand what you’re saying and I honestly wish things weren’t the way they are, but it’s a fact of life. Ramps + skateboards + rails + kids = an accident waiting to happen…which in turn = sue the pants off that “big church! They’re just stealing their money from little old ladies anyway!” It’s a liability/insurance issue. Plain and simple.
On a personal level, our family was sued by another family whose son was injured in our yard after repeatedly being told to go home. Easy money.
Christian: Also, just to follow up. The church DOES provide a venue for the kids to come and just hang out. Each week they see over 250 kids come in for a time after school to do homework, play basketball, visit, eat (they set up a snack bar thing), and just have a place to be off the street. And it’s supervised. Just like you suggested. You would probably recognize the name of the church. It’s one of the largest in the area…and it’s a Reformation Movement Christian church.
Again, it’s the situation of unsupervised liability. Just wanted to clarify.
At some point you’ve got to take a risk for people. You’re sending the message that stuff is more important than they are. YOu can also mitigate the damage done from lawsuits through posted signs, signed disclaimers, meeting with parents from time to time, and liability insurance.
That perception isn’t going to change by shooing them off the property and referring to them as punk kids who need a foot in their butts.
Also if we’re picking titles, I want to be called the Right Honorable Reverend Pastor Priest.
That makes me imagine a bunch of kids fighting with senior citizens over shuffle board space.
I don’t know, I can see Keith’s point about not allowing kids to skateboard on church property. The fact is that we are a lawsuit happy people, and I think a lot of insurance policies would make churches have such restrictions. Even if you have kids’ parents sign a waiver, I’ve been told by multiple people in the know, that they’re generally worthless should something actually happen.
There are ways to talk to kids without being a jerk. This cop seems to have the people skills of a wild rhino, and really doesn’t seem to have the tempermant of someone who can diffuse situations. Honestly, I didn’t think these kids were even that disrespectful compared to a lot of the hoodlums I’ve seen. If the cop would’ve been a bit more reasonable from the get-go, he’d probably still have a job.
I will not call that cop “dude”. I call him “rude”. Perhaps that is not normal behavior for him and he was under some stress, in any event it was unacceptable. Just his concern about the camera was telling.
Tim: I agree with “At some point you’ve got to take a risk for people.” The problem is, as Phil as alluded, the insurance companies won’t provide coverage if you don’t take certain steps, i.e. signs, “shooing people, etc” The insurance companies have your hands tied. What do you do? Tell them tuff, have no coverage and then when a disaster like a tornado or fire comes along, just tell the congregation: “We can’t replace it because we chose to forego the insurance and let the kids skate”?
I know it sounds craaaazzzzzy, but since Grandma spilled McDonald’s coffee in her lap, things have gotten completely out of hand.
“YOu can also mitigate the damage done from lawsuits through posted signs, signed disclaimers, meeting with parents from time to time, and liability insurance.” The skater kids tore the signs down at our church and the parents don’t care as long as the kids aren’t bothering them. Reality in our town.
I trully do understand what you’re saying and I agree that it’s a bad situation. Maybe when Hillary or Obama get in office, we can get Universal Law Suit Insurance along with Universal Health Care! 8^)>
There’s just no real good solution.
Too many people with a badge and a gun forget that they really work for us…so much for “to serve and protect”.
Sounds like a few pastors and radio ministry types too.
I understand you open yourself up to risk, and it will cost you, at the least increased premiums, but increased premiums is a small price to pay for integration with the community.
Keith,
Also I’m not saying your church has to be doing that, but should at least consider it.
Tim: We may not agree on much, but on this we do seem to agree–it’s a “sticky wicket.”
Have a great day…DUDE! 8^)>
Driver to Cop who has just pulled him over –
“Dude, aren’t you a public servant?”
Cop – “Yes.”
Driver – “Then get me a glass of water, braaaaaaa!”
I thought you were from the south, not the south of England.
As for the skateboarding on your property, I can see why you couldn’t let that happen, but if kids started skateboarding on our church property I’d take the time to explain to them that it is soley and insurance problem, that I have no problem with them or what they are doing, but it’s just too dangerous,
I’d also try to figure out where in the area it was legal for them to skate and recommend they head down there, if there was no local place that’s legal, I’d look into seeing if they could get a community skatepark going, if that doesn’t work I’d ask around at other churches to see if they saw a big enough oppurtuinty to open up a skatepark ourselves somewhere if the reasources where available, same way churches started opening up basketball courts or bringing in foosball tables and coffee shops.
As for dude being offensive, we all choose what is offensive to us…there is no cultural law we are bound to with a set of do’s and don’ts, wether you live in the north or the south you choose to be offended by certain titles, and choose to attach monickers of respect or disrespect. it’s really trial and error of finding out what people choose to be offended by anymore, I for one am really offended by being called “sir” or “mister” by anyone over five, I’m not some distant higher being, but I’ve chosen to just let it go, they don’t know my list of offenses and respects, I’ve chosen not to be offended by that anymore, it’s really on the keepers of these lists to let these things go and look at the motives and not the words.