admitting fault
Ingrid’s rebuttal to my recent article
Read this piece regarding Mosaic’s Erwin McManus and his views on Christianity and you will understand why Nathan Neighbour from his “Creative Arts†team has such a dim view of his fellow believers—(â€hundreds of abortion clinics have been bombedâ€, he says, and adds that people in Christian glass houses shouldn’t throw stones at Islam). The young man has been discipled by McManus and it clearly shows.
for the record, I have a very high view and even higher hopes for the community of faith called Christianity. I believe that the church and my fellow beleivers are the only hope for the world. I throughly ascribe to Mosaic’s core convictions of
- The local church is God’s agent for redemptive change.
- Every Christian is called and gifted by God to serve the Body and seek the Lost
The difference between Ingrid and I is that I am able to objectively look at our faith history, admit that there have been good and bad times, and still say that we are a dynamic and living force in a lost and dying world. Ingrid believes that even admitting fault means that you have a “dim view” of the people in our faith. That really says alot about the ODMs ability to see and express reality clearly. But when you are going to go out of your way to criticize another faith’s inconsistencies in belief and practice, you better make sure the fingers can’t be pointed right back at you.
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And if there’s anymore insistence to the contrary…then we’ll be able to see a clear and undeniable hardness of heart.
Accusations have been leveled.
They have been answered unequivocally. (so much for “emergent” obfuscation and lack of clarity.)
End of discussion…
or at least it should be.
(see? no need to apologize even. so much for emergent “rage”)
nc,
Personally, the clearer I am in my doctrines to the point of gently pointing out their “misspoken” words concerning their own… the meaner and nastier they get.
It is as if one moves deeper into truth they hate it more and more.
I am almost to the point of not listening or responding to them as really they have placed themselves above reproach to the point that even clear bible passages mean nothing to them when we quote it them. I have seen them dig things up from the past… not just about Tim, but my own also in which I was accused of being a fraudulent “ordained†pastor… yet at worst I was a victim of a fraud against me from a group, yet I see them as not being fraudulent nor a “ordination mill†as they are accused of. Yet, they accuse me of purposely misrepresenting myself as an “ordained pastor†though I am in every sense of the meaning. From God, men and gov’t.
I see that though I have shown that there is no wrong there and my involvement was so that I had accountability, I am still in their eyes a liar, dishonest and using my ordination for personal gain (which I would love to see what that is!)
These personal attacks seemed to end until recently when someone I confronted about their doctrine had a friend who decided to dredge this all up.
This whole thing has left me with such a bad taste in my mouth over “ordination†I am to the point that I may not accept it from Vineyard when offered as it seems to give me more grief than benefits.
So I am punished over trying to be accountable… and never forgiven for what I am falsely accused of. Once judged then condemned for ever with no sight of reconciliation by those truly holy individuals that hold Grace, Mercy and Love in such high esteem as of trample it underfoot to walk all over those brothers and sisters they deem less worthy of Grace, Mercy and Love than they are themselves.
Though I forgive them every time, I see them as sick individuals that many may need medication.
BTW the person that started these false accusations against me was reprimanded and lost his job over his harassment of me. Ken Silva used this man to get the SBC presidents attention then properly distanced himself from this guy… yet he is still out there slandering me and others and has a minute following.
What can one do but pray and forgive and trust that the Holy Spirit will convict and correct them, while giving me and others strength to continue loving them in the Name of Jesus.
iggy
Does it seem at all odd to anyone else that she runs a “ministry” that does nothing but criticize Christians, yet when Nathan N. states accurately that Christians have done bad things in the past, she pitches a hissy fit?
She criticizes Christianity every day. But no one else can. I guess abortion clinic bombers and the salem witch zealots aren’t worthy enough targets for criticism. Instead, the only ones worthy of criticism are the ones who don’t think exactly like they do.
It’s funny, in a hypocritical, stupid kind of way.
She’s criticizing the part that isn’t really “christian” which is why she can say who is and who isn’t a christian. Did anyone see how she had a little “conspiracy theory about gas prices going to $12 a gallon and a rant about Brett Favre? Now, it’s down.
Does anyone know if her first husband is still alive?
Correction it is not down. It is right here
Poor Erwin McManus. I’m not even entirely sure who he is, but he seems to be constantly used during the Nathan insulting sessions. Ranting about someone is obviously rude, but using someone else’s name to go about that is incredibly inconsiderate. It’s happened to me before and I think that it hurt me more than the person being insulted.
It’s obvious we’re all entitled to our opinions, but since Joe brings up the first husband issue, I have to wonder if–considering the pain of a divorce for whatever reason–Ingrid should have a softer, tender spirit along with her opinions.
If you don’t have compassion, then I don’t think you’ve really understood grace.
You won’t spout off that dreck about “caring for people enough to ‘tell them truth’ as a defense for being jerky toward people because you understand God’s redeeming stance in your life so undeserved, ya know?
Instead, you’ll appeal, exhort, encourage, show your heartbreak, your grief, not shriek, call names, etc. etc. ad nauseum ad infinitum.
On another issue: She’s such a basher of women in pastoral roles, but here she is occupying a role of spiritual authority in the rebuke of spiritual leaders…
Rick is very keen to point this out…and from a “hypocrisy” standpoint I see his point.
Btw, where IS Rick lately?
Ingrid has a right to her opinions and I think religious leaders, no matter how truly good they are, should know that with celebrity comes public scrutiny and criticism. I think a thicker skin may be in order if you want to take certain positions.
However (this is a big however), I do have a problem when Ingrid criticizes her neighbors and children who attend school/church with her children. The post a long time ago about a teen girl looking like “little miss Babylon†and how Ingrid had gone to the pastor and tattled on her for the way she was dressed was over the top. Why not pray for the child instead of stirring up trouble? There was also the post about a girl wrestling on a school team vs. her son’s team who Ingrid described as disgusting and unfeminine. She was holding this girl up to the same impossible standards our society places on female appearance, only she was going to a different extreme. Also, going on a blog and criticizing her neighbors for launching fireworks on July 4th was just, well, plain silly and petty.
When Ingrid complains about feeling unwelcome at certain churches that she labels “cold,†I always think, “No wonder. They are probably scared you will air their failings publicly. Who needs a friend like that?â€
Thanks for allowing me to rant. I have prayed about this and I am determined to love people like Ingrid. She is flawed just like the rest of us, but in my opinion there is no excuse for attacking neighbors and especially children.
Wow.
Ironic.
She’s complained of churches being cold…
What a great post about Favre. Reminds me of the flack Lennon took – guess certain circles still can’t take a joke.
As for the 23 yr old – he sighted Bret as a role model and assigned him 4th place behind two parents and Jesus – what’s the problem with that?
Neil
did not leave a spot for Ingrid.
GBA – Guilt By Association… page one of the ODM Handbook.
Either my comment got eaten or it was deemed innappropiate. Anybody?
Hmmm… I don’t see anything in the moderation que, nor in the spam box. Your comment must have just gotten lost in cyberspace.
I blame the Muslims, personally…