Sometimes, if you skip the logical progress in your gearbox, that is 5th to 4th to 3rd… if you try and drop from 5th to 2nd you’ll grind your gears.  It’s not a good idea, it’s hard on your transmission. If we employ this metaphor to a recent post at Slice – if we dropped gears as abruptly and out of sync as the logic in this post, we’d be leaving pieces of our transmission all over the road.

The subject is a video from GetSelfCentered.  The video is pretty self explanatory and visiting the website gives more of the same New Age looking rhetoric (As a side not it’s interesting to note  “the worlds” use of cliché’s and drivel as well).  Clearly this is something that looks completely non-Christian.

Then the swipe, the illogical leap, the grinding of gears and shredding of parts… her application: “Meditation is the common link to the New Spirituality —from Rob Bell’s church to all of the world religions.”

Meditation is as biblical as prayer, fasting, or worship.  Yet, because other religions use it we are now forbidden from doing the same.  Because the “New Spirituality” employs meditation, Christians who do so are somehow linked to them.

Muslims pray, therefore, employing this logic we should not; lest we find ourselves linked in a common practice.

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This entry was posted on Monday, March 10th, 2008 at 10:33 am and is filed under Ingrid, ODM Writers. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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13 Comments(+Add)

1   Rick Frueh
March 10th, 2008 at 11:38 am

This statement by Ingid was revealing:

While on a New Spirituality website yesterday,

That gives an insight into the incredible time that these people spend purusing the internet to find any scrap of information with which to use. Why would anyone be viewing a “New Spirituality” website? If Rob Bell teaches things that we disagree with it isn’t because some New Age site teaches the same thing, it must be because it disagrees with Scripture.

There are millions of websites that can provide ample evidence for your disagreement war chest, however at what cost. Many missionaries will never visit any New Age website because they do not have the time and if the people in your church find pastures at these sites your church’s problem is deeper than what the New Age teaches, you have a problem with what you are teaching.

2   nc    
March 10th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

But Rick!

the angry god commanded it!

3   Brutus    
March 10th, 2008 at 5:23 pm

Rule #1
guilt by association

4   Neil    
March 10th, 2008 at 5:38 pm


True, it’s rule #1… but this time she didn’t even bother creating the association.


5   Neil    
March 10th, 2008 at 5:43 pm


If someone wants to spend time researching what’s out there, that’s fine. It’s even fine to post it for the benefit of others and call it a ministry – loosely defined.

But you’re right attempting to indict Christians based on the behavior of non-Christians is not a ministry.


6   Rick Frueh
March 10th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

Neil, I guess my point was that when someone like Spurgoen speaks out in a watchman role, his time and labors also include a panorama of edifying and devotional words that emanate from his heart. Should we expect watchman to spend so little time unfolding some worshipful revelations from their own hearts about Christ and a plethera of negative revelations about others?

How can someone be so verbose about doctrinal error and yet have to cut and paste most of anything sweet and devotional? The answer, I fear, is that they spend too much time perusing the spittoon and not enough time finding nickels.

When the lives and ministries of others reduce our devotional time with Christ it is a major problem regardless of what truth you speak.

7   Brendt
March 10th, 2008 at 9:44 pm

That wacky New-Ager David:

Psalm 1:2
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Psalm 5:1
Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.

Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Psalm 49:3
My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart shall be of understanding.

Psalm 63:6
When I remember thee upon my bed, and meditate on thee in the night watches.

Psalm 77:12
I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.

Psalm 104:34
My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD.

Psalm 119:15
I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.

Psalm 119:23
Princes also did sit and speak against me: but thy servant did meditate in thy statutes.

Psalm 119:48
My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.

Psalm 119:78
Let the proud be ashamed; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: but I will meditate in thy precepts.

Psalm 119:97
O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.

Psalm 119:99
I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.

Psalm 119:148
Mine eyes prevent the night watches, that I might meditate in thy word.

Psalm 143:5
I remember the days of old; I meditate on all thy works; I muse on the work of thy hands.


And Paul got in the act:

1 Timothy 4:15
Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.


Why, even God doesn’t measure up to Ingrid’s standard:

Joshua 1:8
This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

8   Brendt
March 10th, 2008 at 9:48 pm

Oh, wait. I take it all back. Jesus clearly taught that we were not to meditate:

Luke 21:13-15
And it shall turn to you for a testimony. Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which Rob Bell shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

9   iggy
March 11th, 2008 at 1:29 am

Ingrid pushes contemplitvie prayer only if it is from Puritans.

This is straight from the article she postsed with the downloadable PDF

“We rightly criticize those who engage in transcendental meditation and other mindrelaxing exercises because these practices are connected with false religions, such asBuddhism and Hinduism, and have nothing to do with Scripture. Such forms of meditation focus on emptying the mind to become detached from the world and to merge with the so-called Cosmic Mind, not to attach to, listen to, and to be active for a living,personal God. Yet, we can learn from such people the importance of quiet reflection and prolonged meditation.”

So she approves of her type (whatever that is) but condemns all others.

And they want us to be like them? LOL!


10   Richard Abanes
March 11th, 2008 at 8:33 am

Yes, this is a standard mental glitch with these discerners — i.e., words, words, words.

If New Age group/person “A” uses a certain word (or phrase/term), then group/person “B” who uses the same word (or phrase/term) must necessarily be saying the same thing. Examples, dream, purpose, meditate, silence, quietly, one, everything, “in,” etc. etc. etc.

It’s getting truly ridiculous at this point. To mix a metaphor, you can’t swing a dverb or a noun any more these days without hitting a New Ager. And forget about writing poetry. Who KNOWS what New Age word you might use if you try to do that.

It’s not really what I’d call the Walter Martin way of doing apologetics. I’d love to see what he’d say to these folks if he was still around. I worked at CRI. I saw how things were done over there when it came to research (although I never knew Martin himself). I listened to Walter Martin for many years.

Personally, I think he’d have a choice word or two for this witch-hunting that’s going on today in the name of apologetics. It’s truly very sad. But given their attitudes, they’d probably just label him a New Ager too, someone who had compromised and/or been deceived — or maybe they’d say he was on Rick Warren’s payroll. lol.

R. Abanes

11   Brendt
March 11th, 2008 at 9:20 am

BTW, Neil, by using a metaphor, you’re contextualizing the Gospel. Heretic! ;-)

12   Kevin I    
March 11th, 2008 at 9:47 am

This should be a new rule, I see it all the time on these blogs and it’s what makes me scratch my head..
It’s like the underpants gnomes from South Park who had the plan:

Step 1:
Steal Underpants

Step 2:

Step 3:

When challenged about what step two is, they would only answer with a description of Step 1 or 3, but even they didn’t know how this would connect and work.

The ODM’s do this all the time:

Step 1:
Random New Age Site

Step 2:

Step 3:
Rob Bell/Brian McLaren/Rick Warren (whoever their target obsession is today) is a heretic.

You can’t find the step 2 because there isn’t one!

13   Neil    
March 11th, 2008 at 3:18 pm


I agree (with Ingrid) that there are types of meditation of which a believer should not participate. Problem is, too many times I’ve seen discerners not discern the difference. And in this post by Ingrid she makes no distinctions nor does she explain why/how Bell is guilty of the wrong type.