Proving the old adage of the enemy of my enemy is my friend, Ingrid is siding with the complaining neighbors in this story about a church that had some noise complaints from some people in the neighborhood.  Apparantly, it is bad for Rick Warren to ask people in a community what they don’t like about a church service, but it’s OK to listen to these people when they complain about our music.

Now it’s hard to say what the actual facts of the story are from this news story, but I’ve often seen noise complaints come from the kind of people who get angry if you look at their lawn in the wrong way.  Also, the article says the town’s noise ordinance has a level of 70 dB listed.  Now from acoustics class, I remember that 70 dB is about the sound level of a noisy office.  A typical city street would probably be above 70 dB, so it’s hard to say what the level of noise was from the church.  There’s no mention of anyone taking a reading at the church building.

I just am really shocked that Ingrid is supporting police officers coming into a church building and threatening to physically remove musicians from the stage.  I guess she’s all for the government getting its hands into churches as long as they’re ones she doesn’t like.

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This entry was posted on Monday, March 31st, 2008 at 9:54 am and is filed under Church and Society, Ingrid, Music and Art, ODM Responses, ODM Writers. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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34 Comments(+Add)

1   Joe Martino    http://joemartino.name
March 31st, 2008 at 10:46 am

I’m sure as long as it’s not her church, it’s cool. :)

2   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
March 31st, 2008 at 11:03 am

It is posting stories like this that reminds us how little cedibility Ingrid has. Jehosaphat obeyed the Lord and had all the singers and instrument go forth from the Tabernacle and praise the Lord, which was used by God in their vicrtory over Moab and others.

Let me get this straight, the Bible gives clear instructions about volume? Maybe the building code did not do their job in maintaining distance. And as usual, the story comes from a secular perspective and with a snide “lawyering up” remark from Ingrid. Although I do realize that the volume of Sunday worship is another sign of the antichrist.

The diminutive issues of post like these obscure the important issues. And Ingrid asks “What ever happened to loving your neighbor as yourselves?” Next time a store clerk mistreats you, remember what you said. Oh yea, that doesn’t apply where your rights as a consumer are infringed, God is a capitalist.

3   Christian P    http://www.churchvoices.com
March 31st, 2008 at 11:24 am

Regardless of the facts, how does this story make the church look to the people in that community?

Rick, I’m surprised you haven’t picked up on the fact that the church leadership has gone all American ideology on their city leaders. Just because they have a right to do something in our country, that doesn’t justify doing it. (Not talking about the music, but the way in which they handled the situation. Personally, I’d probably get great joy worshiping there.)

Finally, the question of loving your neighbor was asked by the journalist (not just Ingrid). Again I ask, how does this make the church look to the people they are trying to reach?

4   Tim Reed, Owosso MI    http://churchvoices.com
March 31st, 2008 at 11:25 am

Joe and Rick just agreed with each other.

5   Brutus    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Junius_Brutus
March 31st, 2008 at 11:27 am

years ago, old country church. country, brick methodist building. 150 years old. big windows. we would open them in the summer. about 150 or so in attendance. one song leader. one piano. everyone singing.

neighbor from 1/4 mile away called and said we were making too much noise. in jesus name i told him “close your windows”

while we want to be sensitive to the community and our neighbors………..sometimes you are not going to be able to compromise.

i had a friend who pastored in west virginia. small town. he put a loud speaker on the church building and blared out the sunday morning services. you could hear it blocks away. he thought he was “evangelizing.” good intentions perhaps but all it did was _____off the community.

we need to be wise…………

as to ingrid……………who pays attention to her anyway? the doubleminded woman is unstable in all her ways.

6   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
March 31st, 2008 at 11:39 am

I agree, Christian, MOST churches follow the American Dagon! But how does Ingrid take the side of the Sunday morning sleep in heathen?? I LOVE loud and emonstartive worship, as well as soft and reverent. Dancing, shouting, clapping, whirling, I love dancers with tamborines having colored ribbons tied to them.

I think heaven will be all of the above, I wonder where the “You must worship as I do crowd” will hide when we dance before His throne? Don’t worry, Christian, I’m all over the American idolatry as practiced in God’s church. It just so happens I am looked upon as a kook now, but when everyone else wakes up I will be honored!!

Maybe not…of course not. My sons and I have entertained the idea of picketing our local polling place which is of course a church. I’m looking for suggestions on what to write on the posters. Fred Phelps has this one “George Washington is in hell today!” That may be a little provocative including the fact that I do not believe that.

How about “He who voted receives the mark!”

7   Evan Hurst    
March 31st, 2008 at 11:41 am

the doubleminded woman is unstable in all her ways.

haha.

loves it.

8   Tim Reed, Owosso MI    http://churchvoices.com
March 31st, 2008 at 11:41 am

Christian,
Your tact is totally different from Ingrid’s. Stating that the church should seek reconciliation and try to love their neighbors through the action (or in this case inaction) is very different than Ingrid’s Law-based approach.

Ingrid’s response is to condemn this church for violating scripture. Oh I realize she asked “whatever happened to loving your neighbors” but that’s not the overall thrust of the post. The thrust of the post is that this church is in violation of scripture and is somehow a “circus church”.

Ingrid demonstrates, again, how you can be right and still be wrong. This church is wrong, but not because they are somehow disorderly in worship, but because they’re not loving their neighbors.

9   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
March 31st, 2008 at 11:51 am

Christian, my thoughts were about Ingrid’s post, why would you post the article without more specifics, I wasn’t endorsing suing the government. Also remember there are Christian lawyers who sepcialize in suing the government which I’m sure Ingrid is in favor of so why does she use the Z”lawyer up” remark.

And she has two posts after that one with substantive issues so why post that colloquial issue?

10   Christian P    http://www.churchvoices.com
March 31st, 2008 at 11:53 am

Tim, I said nothing about agreeing with Ingrid. Frankly, I think she’s irrelevant. Phil made an excellent and accurate point in regards to her post.

I was just trying to look at more meaningful and challenging issues (that we who live in reality, i.e. not Ingrid) deal with in such a way as to not detract from Phil’s intent.

11   John Kenneson    
March 31st, 2008 at 11:54 am

I’ve been in churches where they have used enormous pipe organs. They’ve cranked the volume to where it made my ribs rattle. Awesome! but no less loud than the “rock and roll” services of today. It seems to me there needs to be room in our thinking for some of each. But hey, I’m old.

12   Christian P    http://www.churchvoices.com
March 31st, 2008 at 11:55 am

I agree Rick, I was trying to be kind of funny because you bring up the America issue so much.

13   Phil Miller    http://veritasfellowship.blogspot.com
March 31st, 2008 at 12:35 pm

I do think that churches should do everything within reason to be a good neighbor, and my gut reaction to the news story is that there’s more going on than what it tells us. On the surface, it seems a bit odd to go the lawyer route, although it seems that the church is using the lawyers against the actions of the town, not the neighbors (not saying I advocate either).

It just seems odd to me that in a buuilding made for 10,000 members that it would be that loud outside of the building. I suppose they could really be cranking the sound system, but it just seems odd.

My bet is that this church is a more upscale neighborhood in the suburbs where it was able to get land for cheap, and the neighbors who once lived in a quiet cul de sac are now facing more traffic and such because of the church moving in. Now they’re looking at it’s every move.

I’m not meaning to take sides in the issue so much though. I just find it ironic that people such as Ingrid who take a position of never being swayed by public opinion are so quick to accomodate public opinion when it suits their needs.

14   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
March 31st, 2008 at 2:16 pm

I once called the police when a local church went on very late with their “revival”. I felt bad, yet it was midnight and they just kept getting louder and louder and I needed to work the next day…

Note i was down the block from them and they had neighbor right next to them.

Now, the music was great, but the lack of consideration for their neighbor was wrong… (let alone later that pastor was indited for soliciting a hit man and being part of a money laundering scheme with the local mafia! but that was another story!)

I just thought that it was inconsiderate and rude…

iggy

15   Phil Miller    http://veritasfellowship.blogspot.com
March 31st, 2008 at 3:06 pm

Iggy,
The church in the story is Baptist, so my bet is they weren’t in the middle of a “revival”. ;-)

16   Chris L    http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/
March 31st, 2008 at 3:28 pm

FYI -

From reading the text of the actual complaint, some local stories and a brief phone call, the actual situation appears to be:

1) The local prosecutor appears to be from a small conservative church, and doesn’t approve of the music at First Baptist

2) FBC has him, on tape, saying that CCM is inappropriate music for a church

3) At least one report has the prosecutor telling church staff that he’s prepared to raid the church any time music is heard outside the building.

In short, the prosecutor in this particular case is Ingrid’s sort of guy – a Christian with an axe to grind with other Christians who worship in a way he doesn’t approve of – and, for bonus points – he’s willing to abuse his public office to enforce his tastes…

17   Brutus    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Junius_Brutus
March 31st, 2008 at 3:49 pm

chris,

terrible. this guy should be removed from office for such behaviour. talk about letting your religion control your public office responsibility.

if “his way” is the only way………….whole lotta churches that are in big trouble.

18   Phil Miller    http://veritasfellowship.blogspot.com
March 31st, 2008 at 4:06 pm

You gotta love this quote by the prosecutor:

“The whole issue is not with the type of music – it’s the music and the volume, and people who are in their own homes trying to sleep, eat, and spend time with their children,” Bedell told Cybercast News Service.

It’s for the children, dangit!!

19   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
March 31st, 2008 at 4:07 pm

My simple point is that being loud in worship late at night will not make you friends…

now, I think as far as my story there are laws already…

But as far as the story you are sharing here… that guy should be run out of office and is the type of guy that justifies Rosie Odonnells view that Fundy Christians are no different than Islamic terrorists…

iggy

20   Evan Hurst    
March 31st, 2008 at 4:19 pm

My simple point is that being loud in worship late at night will not make you friends…

another thing that doesn’t make friends for a church? causing traffic problems every time they do anything.

also, i had a friend whose house backed up to a Baptist mega-church (different one from the one i’ve complained about here…we have at least three Baptist mega-churches…), and they were bound and determined that their church building be the brightest thing in the whole wide world, even at night…as a result, every backyard within a mile’s radius had this eerie alien glow…

21   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
March 31st, 2008 at 4:29 pm

Smebody needs to moderate Chris L. for bringing facts into this conversation.

22   Evan Hurst    
March 31st, 2008 at 4:44 pm

naughty, naughty…silly facts.

it’s so heartwarming watching the ways politicians will misuse their positions of influence rather than doing their jobs…

23   Dave Muller    http://blog.thewebsiteguy.com.au
March 31st, 2008 at 5:47 pm

they were bound and determined that their church building be the brightest thing in the whole wide world, even at night

The way you wrote that was so funny!

“We’re the brightest light of the world!”

24   Evan Hurst    
March 31st, 2008 at 6:02 pm

well, and the symbolism is obvious, but it’s like “duuuuuuuuude we can’t fall asleep because that church’s gi-normous crosses are shining directly in our bedrooms!”

25   Neil    
March 31st, 2008 at 6:38 pm

Two things I wonder:
1. How Ingrid could make such a definitive judgment call based on so few facts? – well OK, no surprise if it were Bell or Warren, but it wasn’t
2. How can someone twist Scripture so?

Neil

26   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
March 31st, 2008 at 6:45 pm

Neil – Ingrid points out some useful stuff. But these loud music, Paula White’s divorce, Hannah Montanna, and many, many others are so pedestrian and detract from an overall discussion about doctrinal issues. Let’s see, do we go with the post about rejecting the atonement or Hannah Montanna?

27   Tim Reed, Owosso MI    http://churchvoices.com
March 31st, 2008 at 7:22 pm

Hmm, it seems that our own Chris L is quite the superior journalist, at least when compared with Ingrid, who’s extensive experience and familial business is found in that field.

28   Jerry Hillyer    http://www.dangoldfinch.wordpress.com
March 31st, 2008 at 7:23 pm

The author of slice makes me laugh. Is she seriously approving of police raiding a church? Would she do the same thing if it were an organ making this much noise? Incidentally, I don’t think that passage of Scripture was talking about speakers being too loud, unless the speakers were actually speaking in tongues. She really cracks me up sometimes. Imagine, in favor of the church being quiet!

jerry

29   Jerry Hillyer    http://www.dangoldfinch.wordpress.com
March 31st, 2008 at 7:24 pm

Oh, once again, the main enemy of the world, in the author of slice’s eyes, is the church. I love irony!

jerry

30   Dan Goldfinch    http://struggle4laodicea.wordpress.com/
March 31st, 2008 at 7:27 pm

Ingrid has a point. Christian’s ought to sit down, shut up, and listen to her. I know a few church that I wish would quiet down. I suffer for those in Laodicea.

struggle4laodicea

31   anonymousjane    http://anonymousjane.wordpress.com/
March 31st, 2008 at 10:33 pm

Wow! This is a great deal of double talk even for Ingrid!

Aside: Ingrid must really appreciate quiet in her neighborhood – no fireworks on July 4th and no worship band.

Doesn’t she have a few musicians in her family? Are they allowed to practice with her in the house? I wonder how she would feel if the neighbors complained about the music coming from her home. She’s bound to play her hymns well above 70 dB.

32   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
March 31st, 2008 at 10:44 pm

I believe her husband is an accomplished musicians who plays professionally. I cannot believe the police would burst into an ongoing Sunday service. And yet Ingrid wasn’t outraged about that, only the loud music.

Her opening statement was a real hoot -

“Once again, you cannot satirize what is happening in churches today. ”

I think that breaks one of the Ten Commandments.

33   Brendt    http://csaproductions.com/blog/
April 1st, 2008 at 11:14 am

Your tact is totally different from Ingrid’s.

Tim, I think you mean “tack”. I can’t remember the last time I saw any tact at Slice.

34   Tim Reed, Owosso MI    http://churchvoices.com
April 1st, 2008 at 11:16 am

Oh snap!