I have a confession to make: I’m not sure what I think of Bonhoeffer. Some stuff he says really makes me scratch my head. Take this for instance:
“To everyone God is the kind of God he believes in.”
~The Cost of Discipleship p185
Um, what?
But then on the same page he comes back with this:
Judging others makes us blind, whereas love is illuminating. By judging others we we blind ourselves to our own evil and to the grace which others are just as entitled to as we are. But in the love of Christ we know all about every conceivable sin and guilt; for we know how Jesus suffered, and how all men have been forgiven at the foot of the cross. Christian love sees the fellow-man at the foot of the cross and therefore sees with clarity. If when we judged others, our real motive was to destroy evil we should look for evil where it is certain to be found, and that is in our own hearts. But if we are on the look-out for evil in others, our real motive is obviously to justify ourselves, for we are seeking to escape punishment for our own sins by passing judgment on others, are assuming by implication that the Word of God applies to ourselves in one way, and to others in another. All this is highly dangerous and misleading. We are trying to claim for ourselves a special privilege which we deny to others. But Christ’s disciples have no rights fo their own… .
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“To everyone God is the kind of God he believes in.â€
Even within the parameters of Scripture every one of us has personalized our Lord using our own subjective criteria both overt and subliminal. Usually that means unbalanced focus, environmentally sullied projections, and an avoidance of those aspects which are uncomfortable.
So the one believer emphasizes God’s love to the obscuring of other truths because they are unpleasant, whereas the other presents the more judgmental aspects because it makes him feel more securely on “God’s side”. Both draw subjective comfort from the caricature they present, as do we all.
And even those who may be most “balanced” in their view of God still apply certain spoken and unspoken imaginations to their view of God and His Christ. If we see God’s plan through a “glass darkly” how do we claim to see God with pristine clarity? Even though we can unwaveringly cling to God’s written revelation of Himself, we do Him a grave disservice by removing the mystery which should energize us to seek Him more completely.
Maybe that is what Bonhoeffer was alluding to?
Rick!
Very postmodern of you…
LOL!
Actually as I read Bonhoeffer that is what I understand him to be saying… but let’s play what if McLaren said it and Pastorboy decided to lift just that quote out of its context…
Or maybe not…
iggy
iggy
Iggy – although I have only read some of Bonhoeffer, his other writings seem to put in context that one statement which assures us his view of Scripture. The same cannot be said of MacLaren.
*rolls eyes* *taps fingers on desk* *waits for expose*
LOL
The expose on MacLaren is now legion on the ineternet, it would be an exercise in redundancy. Google his name and pick what you like and leave the rest, that’s what we all do. When I began to do in earnest an article on MacLaren I would find and save his statements and writings and after a while I realized that not onloy had others done a more exhaustive work than I was planning, but it appeared to me that I was attempting to expose the obvious.
My fiat is now that anyone who sees nothing seriously wrong with Maclaen’s views will never be convinced to the contrary, most especially by me.
I concure with Rick…. and Iggy.
Neil
Rick,
I have read many books and heard man interviews and teachings by Brian McLaren and again, outside of major distorted misrepresentations and people who cannot understand his genre, he is Orthodox.
I think you confuse that when he raises a question to make one think, that he may conclude he believes that way. He is not a Universalist, but he often states he sympathizes with them… just as in another thread, I could take your comments of compassion to Evan and make it out that you are for the pro gay agenda…
That is what I see happening over and over. Both with Brian and Doug… In fact Doug flat out denied he was a Universalist yet PB (who cannot understand literature at all!) still claims he is one after I confronted him with the facts, the link and the statement.
PB continues to state lies… as many do and distort what actually is stated by Emergent Village, To the point that they claim God does not do anything in an unbeliever before they are saved…
Was that true for you? Not me, God was very active in my life, though I did not always see it, before I was saved as He was trying to get my attention! But these people with really bad theology who claim God i sovereign yet, claim in the same breath God cannot lie and is subject to the Law… God is not subject to anything and does not do things because He cannot but becuase He will not as it is against His nature… but they then say I am just playing with words!
Be careful who you read… so far you stated that a “foot note” was a bad choice but have not given one thing to prove to me of all this heresy you claim of Brian…
iggy
There is some “Duh” in there, but also
1. God molds Himself to peoples culture for their, let’s say ignorance of his true nature (western Christians too) while He works in their lives to reveal His true self.
2. God also blesses the evil and righteous equally (showing his true love) and an alternate view on that (their perspective) could be that God thinks they are right, or even (from outsiders) that God “blesses” them in their delusion (healings in word faith churches, lives changed in the “evil” catholic church etc.)
“Be careful who you read… so far you stated that a “foot note†was a bad choice but have not given one thing to prove to me of all this heresy you claim of Brian…”
Iggy – I refer you to my most recent fiat.
I forgot to add my other conclusion to it that:
3. God’s apparant moving in our own life (miracles, gifts of the spirit, growing ministry, souls saved, prosperity etc) is no indication that God is actually happy with us. People with beliefs vastly contrary to our own have similar results.
I actually was first challenged about this by a Dream Theater song (not Christian), “Voices” about a fellow who is mentally disturbed and the last line of the song is: