Besides the obvious disagreement with the politics of it, I will never consider a pastor’s wife speaking in America as “courageous”. I defer to the book of Martyrs or the lives told about in the “Voice of the Martyrs” magazine. And what I find completely distasteful on every level is the tangible effervescence found in Ingrid’s words because this woman spoke strongly against homosexuals as if the unsaved world can understand anything on that level.

The back patting and chest thumping is so unchristian as to be scandalous. If you can speak out against the gay community while realizing their spiritual fate without tears you are sounding brass and tinkling cymbal. In short, you are nothing but a hypocrite. If you are going to address specific sins remember to include them all including a litany of your own because Jesus is still writing in the sand.

the “Rally 4 Shiz-Ally” that Ingrid is so excited about is actually kind of useless, honestly. it was organized by 50 bigoted pastors who bussed people in, in order to “rally” for Rep. Kern’s “right to free speech,” which has not been impugned in any way, except that in being made public, she has been rebutted on a national level, which is also free speech.

then when she started getting press over it, she decided to lie and say she had received “death threats,” which the state of Oklahoma denied, and decided to play the victim card.

it’s all a lot of blah blah, really.

she was “taken out of context” because the edit didn’t include her saying she “tries to love everybody.” riiiiiight. as if that negates all the other false and insipid things she said.

it’s no surprise Ingrid is on the bandwagon with this one.

Ingrid begins with this preamble:

“In an age of craven cowardice, effeminized men, dirty politics and spineless politicians…”

I would augment that to this:

“In an age of craven cowardice, effeminized men, dirty politics and spineless politicians and women who do not have a meek and quite spirit which is in God’s sight of great price…”

In the immortal words of the Lone Ranger, “Let us return to those thrilling days of yesteryear…!”

I agree, Keith, that it is a sin. I wish Jesus had spoken out against it as courageously as Pastor Kern’s wife. What a hero, maybe she was pinned down by the same sniper fire as Hillary.

Cut me a break, if speaking out against homosexuality is a sign of courage then Fred Phelps is the modern day Patrick Henry!! Give anyone a mike and “poof” – a hero!!

Basically…I thought “Man…I’m going to have to go to work and do damage control for the misinformation that spilled out of her bully pulpit.”

I was actually referring to Keith’s comment, but just as well. I figured as much you were referring to the acts.

I didn’t think it’s a technicality, especially not to the thousands of gay Christians who struggle with their same sex attractions. It really isn’t a technicality to them. I get you though.

Joe

when I say “homosexuality” I mean the act.

maybe we need a new word for those who distinguish between the orientation and the action, because the terms do get used interchangeably, and it’s kind of insulting. i know that’s not the intention.

may i suggest:

Homosexuactivity.

or

gay-ction.

What a hero, maybe she was pinned down by the same sniper fire as Hillary.

haha, yep. Sally’s made-up death threats and Hillary’s made-up sniper fire are kinda birds of a feather, actually.

Sorry I offended you….

I thought your Phelps comment was gold, really. =)

Thanks Joe. The bitterness is beginning to dissipate!

haha.

yup!

i actually have a copy of the “homosexual agenda,” but the ODM-ish lurkers won’t find it funny if i post it…

Seriously, when we speak of the “gay agenda” we reveal our political idolatry. We should have a “Christ agenda” and quit wringing our hands over the gays meeting in secret bath houses to plan the destruction of America as we know it. they must be stopped before everything we have is taken from us.

I mean when the gays own the White House will my auto-matic pool cleaner be confiscated? Will I be barred from the Outback? Will I be limited to one television? I mean how ruthless will they be?

Please people wake up! Barney Frank lurks right outside your living room window. And when he is president, he will require everyone to have a boy friend. I tremble at the thought, and martyrs like Mrs. Kern give me strength to go on because when I go out I am suspicious of everyone I meet – could they be gay?? A man smiles at me in the grocery store and says “Hi!” and I flee from the store in tears, it’s all so real.

Why have we waited so long? We’ve lost Disney and what else? Gays are everywhere and now it’s been brought to my attention they might be interested in Jesus? On no, that’s the last straw, here is where I make my stand. Jesus was suprisingly profuse in His teaching that He doesn’t desire to meet with the gay community. They are repulsive and their political agenda sickens Him to the extent His blood will no longer be offered.

So come on guys, all these “former gays now Christian” organizationa are just camouflage for their real intentions, I know, you know it, and the American people know it. And just yesterday I though George Clooney was handsome and I washed my mouth out with soap! I continue to find the male species repulsive, repulsive, very repulsive I said!

Yes, repulsive – forever. Let no one ever doubt that!!!

gays meeting in secret bath houses to plan the destruction of America

we meet in the stock room of the nearest Ikea.

Barney Frank lurks right outside your living room window. And when he is president, he will require everyone to have a boy friend.

haha, this reminds me of one of THE funniest things The Onion ever did: Massachusetts Supreme Court Orders All Citizens To Gay Marry

And this is a great statement as well from Ingrid:

“When in a recent speech she decried the relentless assaults of homosexual activists on the rights of families and children in that state to not be indoctrinated in perverse sexuality”

Forget about their eternal destiny, that’s minor. Let’s concentrate on what they’re doing to our earthly Garden of Eden called America. And whose practicing idolatry??

I spoke to our suffering brothers in Darfur and they are really concerned about the gay influence in America because it might affect our children. They know all too well what gays can do to a country, I mean, look what has happened to the Sudan. Yep, gays. North Korea, gays. Iran, gays.

The brothers in a China prison know that without a pristine environment, one that has some sins but not to the extreme, we won’t be able to keep our kids because the Bible, the Holy Spirit, their upbringing, our prayers, Christian schools, and all the other spiritual influneces cannot compete with the gay agenda.

So thanks, Mrs. Kern, you have followed in the steps of Betsy Ross by calling America to wake up and combat these gays and their agenda so our children can retain the American dream and grow up prosperous and not have to experience the torured inconvenience of a traffic jam caused by some gay parade.

I get so worked up when believers attack unbelievers especially while standing on Old Glory. It is unseemly and unchristian on every level.

Evan stated: “…we gays…” I guess that sums it up.

I guess it does…(he said as he walked away).

“I guess it does…(he said as he walked away).”

Not in Jesus’ steps, they seem to be headed the other way…

Rick: I guess you’re just a better man than me.
Evan: No comment.

Rick: he’s right
Keith: me neither stomp stomp stomp and then some chest-beating.

Uh, Rick. I don’t sense that Evan sees himself as a “sheep [that is] deceived.” I could be wrong…but maybe not.

Just because I listen doesn’t mean I have to agree.

Evan: By your own admission (”no he doesn’t”), you confirm there is no need for discussion of this topic. You are biased one way; I am biased the other. “Neither the twain shall meet.” I’m sure we both have better things to do than attempt the impossible. “A man’s got to know his limitations.”

Hope you enjoyed your visit to Oklahoma City. The Murrah Building/OKC Bombing Memorial is worth the visit (if you haven’t already) if you’re ever there again.

Rick: “gay bowling league!?” Do they REALLY have those? Man, where do you live?

Rick: I hate it when you lob me a softball like that! But I’ll refrain from hitting it. Good night.

You’re a good sport, Evan. I better go before I start on Calvinists because…shhh…Keith is one! BTW – I grew up on Broadway shows and my mother was both an off broadway actress and a stand up comedian.

Can you tell??

Rick: It was predestined that we would disagree. 8^)>

“…since most of straight America retched at her comments, too.” Source? I haven’t spoken with a single person that “retched.” In fact, everyone I spoke to applauded her statements. I guess we just run in different crowds. Hmmm.

that’s very possible. but i’d suggest that more people retched, just by reactions i saw from across the spectrum of my friends, associates, etc.

i definitely don’t run in a crowd of people who all share my viewpoints on every single thing, and they don’t all vote the same way either.

Kiss Me Kate
The Fantastiks
Godspell
South Pacific
The King and I
A Chorus Line
The Odd Couple
Sound of Music
Fiddler on the Roof

And many others. I play keyboards, trumpet, and some guitar. I write worship music and am a song leader as well as I have directed several choirs. And I’m a lot of fun at parties! Of course my health prevents me from parties nowadays. Oh well, blogging ahead!

What some saw as “hateful,” others saw as truthful.

and i guess the fact that Ms. Kern used exaggerations, embellishments, and outright falsehoods to make her case is irrelevant, i guess…now, i always qualify that kind of statement by saying that i do not know whether Ms. Kern is aware she is spreading falsehoods, whether she is the victim of the scam or the perpetuator. notwithstanding any of that, she showed an alarming lack of basic civics knowledge (especially for someone who claims the title of “representative”) and her opinions were delivered in a hateful way. let’s not forget that it’s really not up to straight Christian people to determine how her remarks should be received.

but in case we all need a refresher, here are some of Sally’s highlights:

The homosexual agenda [Loud snap] is destroying this nation. OK? It’s just a fact. [Volume increases] Not everybody’s lifestyle is equal, just like not all religions are equal.

1. there is no cohesive “homosexual agenda,” and that’s why regular people laugh. it’s kind of like the “first one to compare the other to a Nazi” rule. you lose.

2. for a government representative to claim that not all “lifestyles,” nay that all “religions” are not equal proves her an unfit representative, as the United States, regardless of revisionist history, is not a “Christian nation.” Ms. Kern’s job is to be the best representative for her constituents, which include gays and members of other religions. if i were Jewish and she said that to me, i would smack her across the face with my ethics.

You know, the very fact that I’m talking to you like this here today, puts me in jeopardy. OK? Uh and I’m not anti, I’m not gay-bashing, but according to God’s word that is not the right kind of lifestyle, it has deadly consequences for those people involved in it, they have more suicides, uh and they’re more discouraged, there’s more illness, their uh lifespans are shorter, you know?

1. no, you are not in “jeopardy” by talking about this, Ms. Kern, but you are doing an effective job of convincing ignorant sheeple that somehow gays will come to get you if you say nasty things. did her remarks receive rebuttal? yes. that’s America. deal with it, Sally.

2. God’s word, or Sally’s interpretation of God’s word, is irrelevant coming out of the mouth of, yet again, blah blah blah, has no one taken civics…a public representative.

3. and then she lists several supposed detrimental effects of being gay, but of course shows no research into the “why” any of those things might be true. well of course not. because then she would have to learn about people different from her, and she would find that no, “being gay” does not have “deadly consequences.” yes, there is an HIV problem, less prevalent among the younger generations. yes, gay teens are more suicide-prone, but i’d suggest that (DUH) we can take that right back to the Church and nail it on the door like Martin Luther. from the pulpit comes the hatred, into the parents’ minds, into greater society’s minds, and the KID IS LISTENING THE WHOLE DAMNED TIME.

‘Matter of fact, studies show, that no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than, you know, a few decades.

studies show, Sally? studies show? what studies? and which society is this, Sally, that has “totally embraced homosexuality”?

woman doesn’t even pass the laugh test.

here comes the famous line:

So it’s the death knell of this country.

I honestly think it’s the biggest threat even, that our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam, which I think is a big threat. OK?

gays are a worse threat than terrorism. people living their lives, paying taxes, raising peoples’ property values (*cough* it’s true), just basically being normal people, are more threatening than TERRORISM? DOES THIS….WOMAN….even remember Oklahoma City? i do, and i was a child at the time! how DARE this wart on the ass of human existence compare ME to the man who bombed the federal building, to the people who flew planes into the World Trade Center…and let’s remember the last time a gay person killed a Christian because they were “different.” oh wait, it hasn’t happened. that’s for us to deal with. thanks. and then the woman dares to give a backhanded compliment to her Muslim constituents by saying, essentially, “hey i can’t stand you, but not as much as i can’t stand the gays…”

shall i go further? seriously.

then she goes on to spread the myth, prevalent among people who have never met a gay person (or don’t realize they’ve met gay people) that “the gays” are trying to “indoctrinate 2-year olds.” yeah, that’s right. the fact that a public library has a couple of books that might show kids that, hey, not every family looks the same is such a huge threat to society when compared to the home bigotry education given the average Oklahoma youth.

anyway, i’m not going to continue a point-by-point, because honestly, she has the right to her opinions, but they’re really too vapid to dissect any further, and so many of her claims are easily debunked by doing a little research, engaging a gay person in conversation, and yes, doing a little praying. but yes. regardless of the substance of her opinions, they were delivered in a hateful bigoted way, and she deserves any freedom-of-speech smackdown she’s been getting from the rest of the country.

you suggested that a large percentage of Oklahomans share her views…that may be true, but it’s a dwindling number every day, and it has nothing to do with a supposed “gay agenda.” it’s simply that more and more people realize they have gay friends, family, fellow church members, etc., every day, and when they do, they become increasingly aware that the things they’ve been told by the extreme Christian right on this issue simply aren’t true.

i, too, live in the “Buckle” of the Bible Belt. over here in Tennessee, we’re glad we’re not the national embarrassment for the moment (until we steal it back – i mean, surely, some lawmaker will try to legalize carrying guns in bars again and we’ll get it right back).

based on voting history, i’d suggest that 15-20% of Americans agree with Sally, at an absolute maximum. the majority of Americans now support legal recognition of some kind for gays’ relationships, and the first anti-gay “marriage” amendment failed last election cycle in a red state.

so i stand by my “most people retched” comments.

Guess I’m a “liberal” now too huh? Starting to think “Liberal” is code word for “I don’t agree with you”.

exactly. these days it bears no resemblance to its original meaning — it’s just the “i think i just won” last word for hard right politicians, pundits, oxycontin addicts, and bigots who fly under the flag of Christ.

anyway, n’nite.

Some interesting statistics I dug up.

*All 19 of the 9/11 terrorists were gay.
*Monica Lewinski was a man
*Sadaam Hussein was gay
*Elliot Spitzer’s call girls were men
*Gays run the drug cartels
*Every abortion doctor is gay
*All premarital teenage sex is gay
*Harry Potter is gay
*Most of the modern Bible paraphrases were written by gays
*Rob Bell, Brian MacLaren, and Rick Warren are gay
*The world bankers are gay
*Nanci Pelosi is gay
*The divorce rate can be traced to gays
*Gangster rappers are all gay

As you can plainly see, all our troubles can be attributed to the gay community. And as Mrs. Kern correctly noted, they are the enemy of our society and our souls. We are finally coming around to the Phelps theology to see he was right all along. The threat to America is gays, those filthy animals.

The real threat to American society is the apathetic and hedonistic church. The church that is drenched in politics and not prayer. The church that spends billions on buildings and staff and entertainment while millions starve. The church that preaches prosperity and not humility. The church that hates the sinner and the sin and pretty much everyone and everything they don’t like. The church that exudes self righteousness like Mrs. Kern and Mrs. Schlueter who pat each other on the back for their shrill rhetoric about the sin of others while calling themselves heros.

(By the way, I will now only refer to her as Mrs. Schlueter so I can help her maintain the traditional family)

The threat to our society is a church that has Athaliah-esque women who use their vocal chords much more than they do a meek and quiet spirit. A church whose mortgage laden buildings are dark most nights because we only say we believe in prayer. A church whose young people are as promiscuous as the ones these self appointed prophetesses lambast. A church who criticises Rosie O’Donnel’s loud mouth but speaks just like her only with somewhat different words.

I am tired of hearing evangelicals use the gay community as their whipping boy to create fear, hatred, and self righteousness. So what are you, Rick, a gay lover? Exactly. I guess that makes me part of the Jesus agenda.

“For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved”.

I am tired of hearing the first chapter of Romans used as a scare tactic. That chapter outlines what happens to men without Christ and the answer is the gospel. I am tired of evangelicals bowing to America as if it was Aaron’s golden calf and wringing their hands over losing their precious lifestyle. The mother in Darfur who will lose her child to starvation and disease this very week isn’t much concerned about us losing some of our moral comfort in America.

And in a collossal indictment against the church, just like Luther nailed the 95 theses’s to the door of Castle Church in Whittenburg, so must the guilt be nailed to the door of the evangelical church in Ameica. If there is anything wrong here it is our fault, not the lost. We have Christ, we have the Holy Spirit, we have the Word, we have prayer, we have the calling of God on our lives and yet it is us who are lukewarm and hedonistic and filled to the brim with moral hubris.

We should be salt, we should be light, we should be the company of humble and yet incandescent Christ followers about whom people take notice that we have “been with Jesus”. I find the current tone about gays to be unloving, non-redemptive, and an incredible revelation of how entrenched the church is in their own myopic judgment while rejecting the dangerous, vulnerable, and sacrificail love that is constrained to go into the world and not hide behind microphones of condemnation meant for the rabid consumption of the spiritual proletariat as they bask in their “I’m not like them” aura of superiority.

I have some news for you all the Mrs. Kerns and Mrs’ Schlueters of this world, you are nothing more than a rotten, stinking sinner who had and still has nothing within yourselves that can ever be described as good before God. You are every bit a sinner as the most outrageous gay sinner, and without God’s grace you would burn in hell forever and well deserve it. So upon what platform do you castigate those from whose loins you came?

You are pompous religious talkers who do not reflect the redemptive power of the cross, you only talk a good game. You do despite to the Spirit of Grace because while the whole world lies in the Wicked One and needs the gospel, you rehearse their sins and even have the hubris to claim they infringe upon the moral hedonism that you wish to maintain.

Missionaries go into jungles and live among the most demonstrative sinners who have many wives, murder each other, sacrifice children, and even eat each other but these messengers of the gospel do not sign petitions, they do not rant against their sins, they do not complain that they must live in the midst of great sin, no they gladly share the glorious goeple of Jesus Christ. And they do not preach that the pigmy agenda is ruining Zimbavwe. Why? Because their calling is not of this world.

I publicly reject your viscious caricatures of certain sinners and instead I kneel at the bloody feet of the greatest expression of divine love ever offered to mankind. I say with One who should be your example, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”. You microphone hounds are closer to Phelps than Jesus. It is one thing to speak correction and even judgment to the church, but when you turn that serpentine tongue to lost sinners you expose the darkness of your own hearts.

So I apoligize to Chris L. for such a long comment, but these voices of hatful self interest must be exposed for the whited pillars that they are. And I would say to every gay man or woman who happens across this blog, Jesus loves you as much as he does anyone else. His gospel is one of eternal life and love, and you may come to him just as you are and let Him take it from there, just as we all did. I want you gay people to know we are no better than you and we are sometimes clumsy in our attempt to love you with God’s love. And please forgive us for some of the disgraceful words uttered by some in the church, please forgive them for they do not speak for Christ.

And when Jesus gave His life for the sins of the world, He include all of us. And even though I was not gay my sins were prolific and I still have many. Please come in the church, you are invited with hearts of love.

Rick

“At what point is it appropriate to say: “Go and sin no more?”

You know what, Keith my brother, I am still working through that but I can be sure it is not before they are saved. After salvation a process begins. But if no real process begins then we must trust God because just like all sinners there are many suspect prefessions of faith, but you, Keith, of all people are being tested to the strength of your (and mine) trust in God’s sovereignty.

I do not speak of accepting anyone’s sinful lifestyle, but I am suggesting showing a love and grace to gay sinners regardless of their rhetroric and views. We need not worry, God is in control. Our calling is the gosple, I have very little to do with the chronology of a person’s growth and sanctification.

I do know people in NYC who were gay and did not see itas sin, accepted Christ and many months later were so convicted they repented and received the grace to enter a struggle that you and I cannot imagine. And many live lives of gracious victory. I am not condoning sin, but I am not condemning sinners as well. I am still flushing out all the particulars, so be patient with me please.

Rick

Keith,

1) I’m pretty well “on-record” in agreement with you that homosexual practice (as opposed to same-sex attraction/temptation) is clearly defined as a sin.

2) I’m also “on-record” in agreement that lying, gossip, slander, blasphemy, adultery, marrying your step-mother, murder, theft, divination, idolatry and a host of other things are sins.

3) I do not believe that it is OK to try to indoctrinate children that all lifestyles are morally-equivalent (because some of those children are mine, and, in trying to indoctrinate them on such issues, the education system has moved beyond its mission of education and into the realm of advocacy – which is my realm, as a parent).

4) Where I’m not clear, though, is at what point our government should move beyond its role of security and justice into the role of trying to legislate that non-Christians must live a Christ-like lifestyle.

Since Evan has admitted that he is not one of Christ’s sheep, perhaps you should ask him about why he’s not. This seems like a much more important topic then our opinions about homosexuality. Does anyone here want to see Evan die while still being apart from Christ? Someone should find out why he won’t unite himself with Christ?

inquisitor: I may be wrong, but I think I reacall Evan answering that question early on, but I can’t put my hands on the post–if it does indeed exist. Chris L or one of the other admins may be able to help there…or maybe Evan himself wouldn’t mind answering the question, so I’ll go ahead and ask: Evan, we may disagree on the topic of this post, but I would never desire to see you die outside of Christ. You have implied (at least myself and Inquisitor have perceieved) that you are not a Christian. Would you be willing to state “why?”

Not everything can be flushed out in words, and sometimes love with interaction and patient prayers are the path. Only the Spirit can draw anyone to Christ and I surely can hear Keith say “Amen!”.

I continue to benefit just by interacting with Evan, not only from his sexual persuasion, but justas a person. I hope he receives some benefit from me as well. I am still waiting to receive any benefit from Chris L., but I have time.

*The divorce rate can be traced to gays

Wanda Sykes does a hi-larious bit that’s partially about how gay marriage affects straight marriages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IHdaJOZe7E

I think you got it… Maybe we should listen… and learn our short comings to better reach those who are of, or have left the flock. What of our doctrines and all have we missed that would cause one who who has found the Living Lord… leave Him… and what in us drives them away?

Oh poor, poor deceived Iggy. Don’t you get it? That’s contextualizing, and contextualizing is evil. It is not for us to “listen” to anyone, or “reach” anyone, or even “love” anyone. We simply lecture people about the gospel using the one true culture that God passed down to us that never changes (thank God that culture just happened to be the exact culture that has been in the one true church since our birth).

/sarcasm

I owe you an apology. I thought I remembered you as being from the UK. I obviously mistook you for another poster. Tennessee is a beautiful state. Go Vols!!!

haha, it’s okay. yeah, i’m in Memphis. right now people are excited about the Tigers.

At what point is it appropriate to say: “Go and sin no more?”

at the point you become Jesus. not an elected official.

Evan: Forget the elected official for a moment. Jesus already HAS said it.

Returning to Inquisitor’s question: Do you have a story re: why you are not a Christian? I’m seriously interested. (Note above–I took the time to talk with the Elder of the MCC in Tulsa. Despite Tim’s sarcasm, I can listen without contextualizing. Doesn’t mean we’ll agree, but I’ll listen.)

Tim: Don’t be such a “Grumpy Gus” this morning. I extended the “olive branch” so to speak last night.

I’m assuming you are aware of the Metropolitan Community Church?

yeah, the gay denomination – i referenced that above: there’s a gay version of everything, and i mean everything, we’ve been pushed out of historically.

and she even backs up her position in scripture.

we ALL cherrypick, whether we think we do or not.

whether it’s a theology of salvation that makes us hone in on one verse and neglect the one right above it that suggests that our chosen verse has nothing to do with what we’re suggesting (Genesis 6 is a good example), or whether we’re condemning gay people, so we know those 4 or 5 verses better than any others, but don’t pay much attention to any of the context…

we all do it.

4) Where I’m not clear, though, is at what point our government should move beyond its role of security and justice into the role of trying to legislate that non-Christians must live a Christ-like lifestyle.

this is kind of the whole point…there will always be the Dobsons, the Falwells, etc., who make an entire career on what they’re “against” rather than what they’re “for,” but you’ll notice that people don’t really go off on them for their rhetoric unless they’re speaking in the public arena. and yes, we’ll go off on Pat Robertson for what he says on teevee, but it’s just….right….there….

Since Evan has admitted that he is not one of Christ’s sheep

haha, when precisely did i say that? my beliefs surrounding that may be nuanced in a different way, but that doesn’t give Inquisitors the right to deem who is and who isn’t a follower of Christ. and Keith, you asked, too, and i would say that my beliefs really are pretty nuanced, and they’re always evolving, but i’ve been “saved” more times than i can count (as happens when you hop denominations all the time in your developmental years – lots of people around subtlely suggesting that you’re not REALLY saved). and after high school, and being roundly condemned (behind closed doors) when i came out at 19, by a large Calvinist Presbyterian Country Club Church where i was a music minister, and which also offered no support to my family at the time…i got really disillusioned with the Christian faith in general, and it’s been a faith journey ever since. i had to go through a period of several years where i truly hated the Church (but not God, really…). anyway, it’s a long story, but i study, i research, i pray, and i’m a skeptic…so while my Christian beliefs may not fit one or the other narrow definition, I’ve always considered myself a follower of Christ. anyway. i’m leaving out 100,000 details or so, because i don’t want to turn this post into more of an epistle than it is.

I am still waiting to receive any benefit from Chris L., but I have time.

you were asking if i could tell you had been raised by a stand-up comedian. yes.

I don’t know what Ikea is.

like Pottery Barn, but much cooler.

Tim,

Oh poor, poor deceived Iggy.

Life unwinds like a cheap sweater
But since I gave up hope, I feel a lot better
And the truth gets blurred like a wet letter
But since I gave up hope, I feel a lot better Steve Taylor

Once you are deemed a heretic it is a lot easier to love and accept others…

iggy

Tim:“Human.” Guilty as charged. (Does this mean we’re buddies again?)

Evan: Thanks for answering the question(s).

Iggy: “Once you are deemed a heretic it is a lot easier to love and accept others…” If that were the case, I’d be the most loving/accepting guy around…and we both know that ain’t true! 8^)>

Gotta get out and do a little yard work. Have a great day, fellas.

Gardening is so gay…

; )

iggy

haha, most of the “Gardening Gays” i know hire it done…

these are wealthy, wealthy people, though. “gardening” would interfere with “jetting off somewhere different every weekend.”

such a hard life they lead…

haha…

yeah, a lot of the stereotypes are rooted in half-truth, but some of ‘em just don’t work.

Many of us have been searching for avenues of understanding and commonality that don’t have agreement as their building materials but rather humility, love, and grace. This is especially difficult when such stark disagreement exists on an issue about which such entrenchment and anticipated views flourish.

If we are to arive at any subset of understanding we all must be prepared to be offended, thought to be unheard, and to suffer the frustration that always accompanies such passionate communication. In short we will have to exhibit divine love that requires nothing more than reception and comes with no strings attached.

I cannot imagine what it feels like to have what is inherently real and active within me and what I feel defines me, to not only be invalidated but be the one area about which I am rejected. That my friend is a pain I have not endured.

One more act like that and you win a free lunch with MacLaren!!

Keith,

Wow!

Next thing you know you will be getting your comments rejected at Pyro Maniacs!

hehe

I will be watching for you out on the new frontier… been takin’ arrows myself for a while.

iggy