Wait till you read this! Christians are actually loving sinners, serving them, and developing relationships with GAYS! And not just Christians… MEGA CHURCH CHRISTIANS! Who do they think they are–Jesus?

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This entry was posted on Thursday, April 10th, 2008 at 10:17 pm and is filed under Christian Living, Church and Society, Editor, Ken Silva, Linked Articles, ODM Responses, ODM Writers, What Can You Say?, sexuality. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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35 Comments(+Add)

1   Evan Hurst    http://breaktheterror.wordpress.com
April 10th, 2008 at 10:42 pm

gays are fine, but i’m worried about the scriptural basis for cavorting with lions or tigers.

2   Evan Hurst    http://breaktheterror.wordpress.com
April 10th, 2008 at 10:45 pm

the real problem Tony Perkins has with issues like this is that real mega church people will meet real gay families and they’ll likely realize before the first course has been served that Tony Perkins and his ilk (Amurkans for “Truth”, Dobson, blah blah blah) have been feeding them a line of BS about gay people for decades.

3   Tim Reed, Owosso MI    http://churchvoices.com
April 10th, 2008 at 10:45 pm

Am I missing something? Is this something more than gay families having lunch with Christian families?

4   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
April 10th, 2008 at 10:46 pm

Eating with sinners? Who ever heard of such a thing?

I think Tony and his wife are a great example of disagreements not destroying relationships. They don’t agree over whether homosexual actions are sinful or not, but they don’t let that get in the way of reaching out to people anyways in the name of Jesus.

But apparently…this is wrong.

Joe

5   Evan Hurst    http://breaktheterror.wordpress.com
April 10th, 2008 at 10:56 pm

Am I missing something? Is this something more than gay families having lunch with Christian families?

also dessert, then trustfalls and Red Rover.

6   Kevin I    
April 11th, 2008 at 12:10 am

Best debate I ever saw was Peggy Campolo and Tony Campolo debating homosexuality.

They held hands when they could and held very different views, argued back and forth full on, but made it very clear they where not just married people who loved and respected each other with different views, but Christians as well.

It’s been the model I’ve tried my best to emulate when arguing with people, except I’d be holding their hands metaphorically most of the time!

7   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
April 11th, 2008 at 12:43 am

Kevin,

Is there a place where one could see this debate?

iggy

8   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
April 11th, 2008 at 5:46 am

It is an especially sad day in God’s Kingdom when the castle doors of grace are shut up to certain “serfs” because their sin is just too heinous, too exotic, and too not like ours. What would happen if a few of them were let in, just to look around mind you, but let in nonetheless? And not just let in, but what if we went out and compelled them to come in? Scandalous!

Some in the castle might spread rumors that we had changed our doctrine or that we were becoming unbalanced on the love side and neglecting truth. These Christians have no heart for souls and write and say tearless perspectives about gays that reveal the heart of self righteous stone that beats within their doctrinal chests.

Many actually believe that most of these gays probably are not chosen to be saved and that Jesus Himself purposely did not provide an atonement for them. I consider that view a great doctrinal sin whose consequences are colossal. The absolute zenith of self righteousness is to believe that Jesus chose you and not most of the world and in that you rejoice and even feel like your praise is the most humble because you did not choose Jesus.

And yet you who claim to have no part in salvation take an active and viscious part in criticizing, condemning, and verbally attcking those who you claim cannot even change unless God desires them to. Blame God then and at least be consistent, it is His will that these sinners stay in their sin and you then speak against His will, you pompous windbags.

We reach out to sinners as long as we do not get our hands dirty, as long as we remain above criticism, as long as the doctrinal Bourgeoisie cannot find fault. And to reach out to the gay community must be antiseptic and retain a wall of respectability which insulates us from being painted with a broad brush of seeker or liberal or purpose or even emergent. And some are content with “speaking truth” to them not living Jesus.

Like everything else you project the issue as cut and dry, no angst and no burden, just providing a “hear ye, hear ye” by the doctrinal town crier to insure everyone knows your phylacteries are still intact. It is disgraceful how spiritually ambivelant the church is to the plight of sinners, and if we were Christ we would have stayed in heaven passing out leaflets to the angels about those miserable sinners on earth and backing it up with our own Word.

Would you Pharisees criticize someone if they put on makeup and gay attire and went out into the gay community to be a light? Sure you would, but that is exactly what Jesus did, He came to earth dressed in the skin of sinners, every different kind of sinner and He walked among them to the criticism of the Pharisees of that day whose lineage continues today.

Is it any wonder many believers do not really care about doctrine today? When they witness the endless arguing and judging and exhausting nitpicking about the smallest of doctrinal issues is it any wonder they have grown tired of such petty self righteousness? When they hear grown men argue over which comes first being converted and then faith or the reverse or some other chronological order, is it any wonder that people walk away from that utter nonesense?

And when they read endless doctrinal dissertations about systematic theology is it any wonder people have left that desert? And when they read continual articles of condemnation about the smallest church in the smallest town in the smallest county in Rhode Island, is it any wonder they have closed their ears? And those that stay and somehow find spiritual nutritousness from that kind of restaurant become self righteous and satisfied that they are indeed orthodox and that the gay lifestyle is wrong. Oh, you are so perceptive.

In these last days, if we are ever to follow our Lord’s command to go everywhere, we will have to do so while ignoring the incoming invectives that will be hurled at us by some within the evangelical community. We must remain true to God’s Word as it applies to everything, the sins of others as well as our own sins. But we live in perilous times with a perilous calling to shine His light inside the ongoing party and not just from the high tower of our own ecclesiastical castle.

We must eat, fellowship, and love sinners. Bring a towel, you will get dirty, in a good way.

9   Evan Hurst    http://breaktheterror.wordpress.com
April 11th, 2008 at 7:05 am

if they put on makeup and gay attire

like that 15 minutes in 2005 when some men started wearing those ugly capri pants, which look bad on ANYBODY who wears them.

we were Christ we would have stayed in heaven passing out leaflets to the angels about those miserable sinners on earth and backing it up with our own Word.

hah! hahahahaha!

i think you just had the last word.

10   Keith    http://fivepts.blogspot.com
April 11th, 2008 at 7:39 am

Rick: “Is it any wonder many believers do not really care about doctrine today?”

Just wondering: who was to blame in Isaiah’s day? (Isa 6:9ff)

11   Pastorboy    http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com
April 11th, 2008 at 7:40 am

Rick (and others)

Just a quick question, in respect:

Can a practicing, out, proud homosexual who denies the clear scripture regarding that sin be a Born-Again Christian?

To make it easier: Can anyone who is living a clear lifestyle of sin in opposition to God’s Word be a born again Christian?

And, in that vein, why are those who are Born-again apologizing for preaching the truth, if it is the truth? If you do not believe scripture, than why preach it? If you do believe it, why apologize for it?

Just wondering.

12   Pastorboy    http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com
April 11th, 2008 at 7:44 am

In these last days, if we are ever to follow our Lord’s command to go everywhere, we will have to do so while ignoring the incoming invectives that will be hurled at us by some within the evangelical community. We must remain true to God’s Word as it applies to everything, the sins of others as well as our own sins. But we live in perilous times with a perilous calling to shine His light inside the ongoing party and not just from the high tower of our own ecclesiastical castle.

I agree, this is my calling, but do you not understand that it is in remaining true to God’s word that we are called bigots and hate mongers by those communities we are trying to reach. I draw the line at compromising the clear scripture teaching. Where do you all draw the line?

13   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
April 11th, 2008 at 7:46 am

PB,

Can a practicing, out, proud homosexual who denies the clear scripture regarding that sin be a Born-Again Christian?

Is it by grace through faith we are saved or by works?

iggy

14   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
April 11th, 2008 at 7:48 am

“To make it easier: Can anyone who is living a clear lifestyle of sin in opposition to God’s Word be a born again Christian?”

I think so and I refer you to the man at Corinth who was committing a sin that even the unsaved disapproved of, and yet he turned out to be a backslidden believer. But you make a good point, that scenario is very dangerous and no one should give assurance to a person living in rebellion.

But you also bring a dispassionate and a legitimate perspective to the conversation which is needed as well. These thing must be flushed out in seriousness and love without accusation and/or hysteria.

I am not sure what you mean by apologizing for the truth.

15   Tim Reed, Owosso MI    http://churchvoices.com
April 11th, 2008 at 8:02 am

Pastorboy,
Can a practicing Christian have such a hard heart that they pitch a fit when Christians eat with sinners?

Answer that, and you’ll have your answer.

16   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
April 11th, 2008 at 8:08 am

Jesus Christ and His redemption are a “scandalon” (?????????). This is translated a “stumbling block” in the English, but it is where we get our word “scandal”. In essence, the power of Christ to save from sin and the extent of His grace are so unfathomable as the be scandalous.

So my perception is that the pervasiveness of God’s grace which is made effective by faith is actually a spiritual scandal it is so disarming. How that plays out in the hearts and lives of sinners is a mystery and scandalous as well.

If we were all to take inventory in 2008 of our lives, our self righteousness, our diminutive prayer lives, our greed, our unforgiveness, our judgmentalism, our sins of omission, and a million other sins, the fact that we are saved would be a great ?????????, a great scandalon. Praise God for His scandalous grace!!

17   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
April 11th, 2008 at 8:10 am

The question marks were the Greek letters that somehow got changed.

18   Tim Reed, Owosso MI    http://churchvoices.com
April 11th, 2008 at 8:30 am

If we were all to take inventory in 2008 of our lives, our self righteousness, our diminutive prayer lives, our greed, our unforgiveness, our judgmentalism, our sins of omission, and a million other sins, the fact that we are saved would be a great ?????????, a great scandalon. Praise God for His scandalous grace!!

Yep. The reality is that we all walk around everyday with sin unrepented for, and frankly, we justify it. Most, if not all, of us will die in this state to one degree or another.

Is that to say its ok to allow sin unchecked? May it never be. But if we’re going to say you can’t be an unrepentant sinner of type X and be a follower of Christ, and part of his kingdom, then we can’t say you CAN be an unrepentant sinner of type Y and be a follower of Christ and part of his kingdom.

Which is why I asked the question: can you have such a hard heart that you condemn Christians for eating a meal with homosexuals and still be a follow of Christ?

19   Brendt    http://csaproductions.com/blog/
April 11th, 2008 at 8:33 am

PB, Ray Bolger is holding on line 2.

20   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
April 11th, 2008 at 8:36 am

I will gladly eat with someone who is gay if they cook!

Brendt – That is soooo funny!

21   Phil Miller    http://veritasfellowship.blogspot.com
April 11th, 2008 at 8:44 am

I will gladly eat with someone who is gay if they cook!

This reminds me of the place where I used to work. My one boss was gay, and he lived with an another man. They ordered food in and ate out more than anyone else I know, I think.

I don’t think I could afford to be gay. Paying for all those fashionable clothes and shoes is beyond my budget.

22   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
April 11th, 2008 at 8:49 am

Yea, but like Seinfeld suggested being gay doubles your wardrobe right away! He said that’s one of the selling points when they recruit! I was almost convinced by that! :)

23   nc    
April 11th, 2008 at 9:10 am

hmmm….

Can a proud,
anger filled (thus a murderer in the eyes of God),
and controlling, gossiper/slanderer
who believes their ministry involves damaging people
and denies clear Scriptural teaching regarding those sins
(i.e. gossips/slanderers don’t inherit the kingdom)
be a Born-Again Saved Christian?

I Peter tells us to be ready to give an answer…it’s verse that I hear the “we’re going to contend by being contentious” crowd use sometimes. Too bad they didn’t read the very next verse: it states our answers should be given in gentleness.

So much for their “Scripture interprets Scripture” high horse when they say folk who are “emerging” don’t take scripture seriously.

Oh….that’s right. Taking Scripture seriously doesn’t mean searching the whole thing…just the parts you like. But that’s ok when you worship the angry god who calls you to ministries of fear, anger and shame. ooops…I forgot…AND manipulation.

Yay!!!!

24   Evan Hurst    http://breaktheterror.wordpress.com
April 11th, 2008 at 10:07 am

This reminds me of the place where I used to work. My one boss was gay, and he lived with an another man. They ordered food in and ate out more than anyone else I know, I think.

I don’t think I could afford to be gay. Paying for all those fashionable clothes and shoes is beyond my budget.

yeah, file that one under “True Stereotypes” for the most part.

Yea, but like Seinfeld suggested being gay doubles your wardrobe right away

ALSO true, as long as you’re a similar size. whenever i can’t find something to wear/don’t feel like doing laundry before going out, i just go over to my best friends’ house and rifle through their closets.

25   Joe Martino    http://joemartino.name
April 11th, 2008 at 10:14 am

As a person who worked as a server for many years, I know that in restaurants gay couples tend to be way better tippers and far nicer.

26   Evan Hurst    http://breaktheterror.wordpress.com
April 11th, 2008 at 10:22 am

yep.

i used to wait tables, too, and everybody would fight over the gay tables.

and there were ALSO certain kinds of tables the servers would bribe the hostesses to keep OUT of our sections.

27   Neil    
April 11th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

With ONE click of my mouse I was able to find a self-contradictory link on “The Editor’s” post.

Statement by the “Editor”

Though Tony Campolo claims he holds the Biblical position on homosexuality, he is sympathetic to the “alternate lifestyles”.

Following the link (ONE CLICK) on “he is sympathetic” reveals the contradiction:

Dr. Campolo’s position on homosexuality is conservative: he believes that the Bible forbids all homosexual activity.

So, in a comment that tries to cast dispersion on TC’s position, the “Editor” links to a statement that contradicts his comment and supports TC as biblical.

Why put in a hyper link that defeats the very comment in which the link is inserted?

28   Evan Hurst    http://breaktheterror.wordpress.com
April 11th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

Why put in a hyper link that defeats the very comment in which the link is inserted?

oh, it’s really simple. because most of the intended audience is extremely unlikely to check the sources provided, yet it adds a visual air of credibility.

the same is true for the Barack Obama mass e-mails, Ann Coulter’s writing career, etc…

29   Tim Reed, Owosso MI    http://churchvoices.com
April 11th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

I’m still waiting for an answer to my question.

30   Evan Hurst    http://breaktheterror.wordpress.com
April 11th, 2008 at 1:46 pm

the “is this more than Evangelical Christians sitting down with gay Christians and having casserole and powdered-sugar brownies” question?

no, it’s not.

31   Tim Reed, Owosso MI    http://churchvoices.com
April 11th, 2008 at 1:52 pm

No, the one I posed to Pastorboy:

Can a practicing Christian have such a hard heart that they pitch a fit when Christians eat with sinners?

Which I posed in resposne to his question about gay Christians.

32   Evan Hurst    http://breaktheterror.wordpress.com
April 11th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

unrelated:

Rick, i have posted two entries in a row without potty words.

just so you know.

:)

33   Evan Hurst    http://breaktheterror.wordpress.com
April 11th, 2008 at 2:03 pm

Can a practicing Christian have such a hard heart that they pitch a fit when Christians eat with sinners?

well, obviously a practicing Christian can, which means they ought to be practicing more, instead of pitching fits, because they’re obviously not very good at being Christians yet.

34   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
April 11th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

Evan – I tried to post a comment but it said I was doing it too fast. What’s up wit dat?

35   Evan Hurst    http://breaktheterror.wordpress.com
April 11th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

too fast?

not a clue.

try again.