This has obviously been a bad week for Slice and Ingrid’s self declared “gift” of discernment. The writer filed this post under “Apostasy Alert”, effectively declaring that Ravi has fallen away from the Christian faith. Most writers here have a great deal of respect for Ravi Zacharias and consider his ministry a true discernment ministry.
In other news, Mark Driscoll once had lunch with Ravi Zacharias. It sounds like they had a good and healthy discussion about the differences in the emerging church. Does this mean that Ravi is an emerging Christian too, even though he has expressed his concerns about the Emerging church?
Ingrid’s entire post is appalling. Be prepared to stifle your gag reflex.
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And whatsoever you ask in my name…
The name of Jesus cannot be a stumbling block if it not spoken. That’s why these “National Day of Prayer” events are nothing more than religious hot air. They usually are consumed with abortion and homosexulaity and America.
I say “Jesus Bless You” when someone sneezes because the “God Bless You” is so nebulous. I have had opportunities to witness around that. There is no event or gathering in which the name of Jesus would be innappropriate to speak. Unless it makes you uncomfortable. What if they forbid you?
1. Do it anyway.
2. Don’t go.
I like Ravi, but he very nationalistic. I wonder if Mrs. Schlueter partcipates in the idolatry known as politics and the mark of the beast known as voting. Don’t worry, guys, I’ll sell you bread because I refuse the mark!
“Ingrid’s entire post is appalling.”
Not the entire post. She posted the lyrics to a really, really good song!
According to her conclusion in the post, if Ravi decided to just pray the good old “Lord’s Prayer” he would have been in error.
Honestly, I don’t know if I pray in Jesus name every time I pray. It’s not intentional. It’s just something I do.
I haven’t read anywhere in the Bible anyone getting brow beaten like this for not mentioning the name of Jesus.
Even if Ravi is wrong for doing this, is he apostate? When Paul confronted Peter about who he was eating with, did Paul consider Peter apostate?
Perhaps accusing someone who has spent a lifetime bringing Christ to secular campuses and Islamic/Hindu countries of being ashamed of Christ isn’t the best way to re-capture your lost legitimacy.
Ravi is not ashamed of Christ, far from it, and his prayer is well intentioned which doesn’t include being ashamed of Christ. Bridge building to be sure, but I disagree.
This nationalistic thing bites again!
I think that as these ODM’s attack more and more people they lose more and more credibility (like they had any! LOL!)
I think they are losing their base support and are panicking so they are looking for the “next” RCC/Emergent/Ravi Zacharias to attack for more support. Which sadly leaves then with less.
One good thing though is that their “remnant” is getting smaller so their Jesus has a lot more room in their heaven for them. ; )
iggy
I thought the prayer was brilliant, as is brother Ravi.
I have fundamentalist relatives, but Ingrid has moved into a whole other category. The “Fred Phelps and other wackos” category.
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on street corners to be seen by men. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen…”
-Matthew 6:5-6
Jesus then teaches the disciples the Lord’s Prayer, without tacking “in Jesus’ name” at the end. I guess He was denying Himself?
Jesus did not end His High Priestly Prayer (John 17) with “in Jesus’ name”. I guess God didn’t hear it?
More evidence that Ingrid & co are off the rails and care more about show than substance.
Friends,
I agree. Ingrid’s post is one of the most despicable, apalling, arrogant pieces of blog post garbage I have ever seen. I’m serious when I say this: She is out of control. I think if she has ever done any good in the past, she has effectively rendered it moot with this post. Her post is beyond contempt (and I am normally very reserved in my judgments and comments). That sort of insipid garbage really gives the Name of Christ a bad Name.
In Jesus’ Name,
jerry
Wow this reminds of the time that Ingrid posted about Miley Cyrus saying the name of Jesus but shouldn’t. Now Ravi is not saying the name of Jesus and should! Aaaaaaaahhhhhh! I’m so confuzzled.
“I think if she has ever done any good in the past”
I invoke the nickel in the spittoon principle.
I’ve checked the last few NDP prayers and none of them end “in Jesus’ name”. Where was her outrage then?
chris,
Yep according to Ingrid we need to take every opportunity too…
Ahh forget it… this is the type of certainty i get from these guys… and try to talk to Pastorboy about… what do we do…mention Jesus or not… believe that regeneration happens before salvation or the moment of or from the start to finish? All this is “Truth” according to them… but all of it contradicts itself! So I am certain that are confusing… and we know who the author of confusion is…? Right?
Rick… that is a lot of spittle to go through for a nickel! can we have an inflationary increase at least?
iggy
Wow. This is kind of train wreck. What a shame. May God bless Ingrid through all of this.
M.G.
Yes, may she find her nickle in all her own spittle… ; )
iggy
I agree M.G. that we need pray for her and that God does bless her…
These ODM sites (Slice and CRN specifically) seemed to start as that kind of crazy you’d find in your own church, you debate and have different views, but at the end of the day things would be okay, they then moved into that really dangerous crazy, that type that rallied people around the wrong things, ignoring fact, mixing just enough truth in with their assumptions and misunderstandings to make it a real danger to the Body.
But now it seems they’ve moved from there to a Tin-foil-hat kind of crazy, and a pathetic searching for anybody to throw under their “discernment” bus, making real stretches like here with Ravi Zacharias, and the many others we’ve seen recently.
I’m saddened by this (it’s always sad to see faithful believers attacked, it has been sad through all the levels of crazy Slice and CRN have been through) but also a bit happy because this makes the sites much less dangerous, it helps to remove whatever teeth it may have had at one point, and I think less people will find these sites and get caught up in their error, so in that way these movements are a great thing.
Ravi has preached Jesus in many hostile situations and has suffered persecution purely on the basis of his ethnicity. Everyone makes mistakes and I like Iggy’s statements about that. All of us have compromised in some way and even if Ravi made a msitake it doesn’t mean he is either leaving the gospel of owes the martyrs an apology. Against that standard we all owe the martyrs an apology for everything.
How huberistic to personally attack Ravi for leaving Christ, but it is typical of the type of erudite approach we’ve come to expect from Mrs. Schlueter who speaks with the authority of an elder which those same martyrs would have rejected. Go ahead and hide behind the curtain of this blog thing, but the Scriptures are clear especially to the MacArthurs and all the puritans you quote, a woman should not have authority over a man.
I have no resepct for the elders in her own church for they willingly allow for this without correcetion? And all her blog friends have no credibility concerning clear doctrine because God has ordained the spirit of Athalia. I will say this, though, Mrs. Schlueter agrees with Rob Bell, a woman can be in authority. The difference is Rob Bell is consistent while Mrs. Schlueter dwells in the doctrinal loophole of her own creation.
To John Huss: I apologize.
signed, Rick Frueh
Rick – I dare you to call Ingrid’s church and ask to speak to her pastor or elders.
From what she’s said she’s so far on the margins she can’t find a church that meets her standards.
Could you imagine being the pastor at Ingrid’s church? The poor guy probably gets calls everyday from her telling him what he’s doing wrong. Someone should buy that man a beer (and I don’t even drink)…
From what I get… Ingrid meets in a house church… with pews and a pulpit with a pastor who wears a suit preaching with “authority” gained from said pulpit.
Strange house indeed.
If true…
“Rick – I dare you to call Ingrid’s church and ask to speak to her pastor or elders.”
I called. I got her!
Sometimes when I read Ingrid’s stuff and squint really hard, I can almost get a picture of her living at an FLDS-esque compound, complete with 1850’s prairie dresses, funky hair and a large mural of Moses delivering the 10 Commandments on the wall of the single room, stone-pew church. The only difference is, she would be in charge and would roam the compound with her great big book of rules and a stick with which to measure the length of skirts and sleeves. The stick would double as the instrument of punishment.
Why must most everything at slice and the other site be so overly melodramtic? OK, so you disagree with Ravi – just say so… but to call this a betrayal of Jesus is so over-the-top as to be stupid.
Neil
I agree with Neil. Humbly disagree without constucting a self absorbed blog hit Mardi Gras. My opinion is still that these national “prayer” days are religious hot air used to salve people’s conscience. God is no more inclined to bless America as He is to bless Iceland. We should avoid those useless expressions of nothing.
BTW – SOL has posted proof that Mrs. Schlueter’s screech has reached the ears of the office of the Prayer Committee and of Ravi Zacharius’s ministry.
I have read Ingrid’s blog since the old Slice at blogspot. She has definitely become more slanderous and outrageous in her claims and condemnation.
When I first started to collect my thoughts for this comment I was going to take up for her in a way. She is a working mom who, by her own admission, has faced a lot of drama in her personal life and perhaps the flimsy research she tries to pass off as “journalism” has to do with her busy life and lack of time. Then I read her blog this morning and realized that I can’t make excuses for or take up for her in any way because when she misspeaks, says cruel things about children, and makes other mistakes she never, NEVER, apologizes.
When I first read Silva and Ingrid’s blogs, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I figured they made a lot of mistakes. Now, I honestly suspect they just lie. They have a political agenda to push and are willing to go beyond the boundaries of good taste, proper etiquette, and Christian love to pursue those ends. After some thought, I honestly do not understand their motivations.
I do not think I can read Ingrid anymore. It all just seems really unhealthy like she is facing a melt-down or something.
Rick, I cannot Amen that last comment of yours loudly enough!
Oh the irony… Ingrid has posted a response to her polemic from the DOP people… she complains that they are attacking the messenger (her) instead of the messege.
Now that’s truly funny.
Neil