Well, well, well, it seems as if the anonymous editor over at CRN.com has a problem with an emergent/emerging church’s gathering due to the adult beverages they served.

Oddly enough, the anonymous editor had nothing to say about the issue of women in leadership, which as you can see was clearly laid out as egalitarian:

Rob and I had talked about the conversation we would have about women in leadership. I was excited for this conversation because I knew how Rob had courageously led his own church through the change of an all male leadership structure to include women on every level of leadership.

Now, for those not paying attention, ODMs have taken a hard line stance against women in church leadership. So why the sudden bout of silence on such a nice big juicy target? It probably has something to do with the fact that Ingrid is busily setting herself up not just as an authority within a church, but as an authority over many churches.

So there it is. If you’re an ODM its ok to take a completely anti-scriptural view of alcohol, yet ignore what is a much stronger case against female leadership, all because you happen to have a big female voice on your team.

Turns out sola scriptura is an ODM punchline.

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This entry was posted on Thursday, April 24th, 2008 at 2:17 pm and is filed under Editor, Emergent Church, Hypocrisy, ODM Policies, ODM Responses, ODM Writers. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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13 Comments(+Add)

1   Matt B    http://matbathome.blogspot.com/
April 24th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

Calvin, Luther, and Spurgeon (otherwise known as the Trinity) all drank alcohol.

2   Neil    
April 24th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

So do I

3   Neil    
April 24th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

What a great description – food, wine, music, joy… sounds like something Jesus would enjoy.


4   Matt B    http://matbathome.blogspot.com/
April 24th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

And this country was founded by drinkers. The Pilgrims preferred beer to water.


5   Neil    
April 24th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

And a question for Ingrid – what does “post liberal” mean in that context? Obviously it’s some kind of swipe, but doesn’t it suppose something that came after liberalism. This, of course, makes no sense since liberalism is still here and, those she labels as post liberal would have to have been liberal and are now something else to be post liberal.

OK, when ya start trying to make senseless emotive label mean something it gets to be a waste of time.

6   Neil    
April 24th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

We all know that a complete prohibition against alcohol in total is extra-biblical. If some want to impose that on themselves that’s fine – but when they start telling others how they should live – that’s legalism.

But aside from that, the greater question is, when did celebrating life, enjoying good food, good wine, good music, good, company become inconsistent with God’s will.

I’d go so far as to say it brings the Creator pleasure to see his children enjoying creation and life.

7   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
April 24th, 2008 at 3:21 pm

Rob Bell is consistent with his views on women in “leadership” or as a “correction authority”. And Mrs. Schlueter is not the only woman arbitrarily rebuking, reproving, and correcting ordained elders.

The church is not segmented into local parts. Although most local churches opperate as unconnected from others and without accountability, that is not how it is supposed to be. Women in rebuking roles is emergent and liberal, surely not an extension of historic and orthodox Christianity.

One sentence from Mrs. Calvin that mirrored Mrs. Schlueter’s verbiage and John would have been a widower!

8   nc    
April 24th, 2008 at 4:02 pm

“Post-liberalism” is an actual school of thought grounded in the writings of George Lindbeck and Hans Frei.

A major voice where you hear the implications of “post-liberal” thought is Walter Brueggemann.

there are theological “liberals”…in the actual sense of the word, not the political pejorative…who take serious issue with the post-liberal project.

The issues are deeply theological, grounded in linguistic philosophy and require careful readings along with a strong grounding in historical theology.

To the shrieking Ingrid it’s probably just a word that she’s heard. I’m surprised she didn’t think:

Hmmmm…Liberal is bad. “Post” means “after”. Maybe this is a good thing? But wait…”post-modern” is bad…so post-liberal could be bad too…what do I do? Hmmmm…it seems like these dirty “emergents” (nevermind I know nobody self-identifies that way) they reference this post-liberal thing and they don’t say it’s bad. well…if they like it, then I hate it. Because my “ministry” is to show you how much I can hate to please my angry, fear driven god.

Somehow I doubt she really has the theological education to understand the long term trends of 200 years of theology within the world of theological liberalism.

9   Neil    
April 25th, 2008 at 8:20 am

Thanks NC, several time lately I’ve seen Brueggemann’s name come up – maybe I should read him. I’ll also look into “Post Liberalism” to see what they espouse.

All that aside, I think a serious discussion on God’s view of joy (good food, flowing wine, live music, etc…) would be healthy. American Evangelicals (historically) miss the boat on this one. They/we are too prone to think – if it’s fun God’s prohibits it.


10   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
April 25th, 2008 at 8:53 am

For me “post-liberal” is someone that has moved on from the polarization or liberal /conservative. I see it as what is called, Cultural Creatives

In a sense it is an awareness of the “otherness” that surrounds us. It is not about me and my rights but about finding solutions out of the polarization. We (as I consider myself one of sorts) see that both sides are wrong and are right on many things, yet instead of focusing on the wrong of the other, working together to get to the solution out of the “right” that each share and hold.

It sort of also plays out in the emerging conversation as we look at how God is working in others of other faiths and in those who do not know Jesus… yet… (note i am not saying focusing on what is wrong in say, the Hindu, but in what we share in common to lead them to Jesus by seeing and sharing and listening what God is doing in them by His Holy Spirit… yes even before they are saved… call it the wooing if you will or the “calling” stage and seeing it and recognizing it and working with it to lead them to Jesus)

anyway that is my take on it!

iggy = )

11   anonymousjane    http://anonymousjane.wordpress.com/
April 25th, 2008 at 9:20 am

Maybe we should add Ingrid to the long list of women who spend a great deal of time outside the home telling other women to stay in it. She is a fan of Phyllis Schlafly, after all.

Perhaps we could make a new list of women in the church “unBiblcally” advising elders and congregation on how women should and should not behave.

12   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
April 25th, 2008 at 9:40 am

“Maybe we should add Ingrid to the long list of women who spend a great deal of time outside the home telling other women to stay in it.”

There is an insightful statement that I will steal borrow one day!

13   Break the Terror    http://breaktheterror.wordpress.com
April 25th, 2008 at 9:49 am

She is a fan of Phyllis Schlafly, after all.

hehehe. Frau Schlafly. Considering what her spawn is doing these days, maybe she SHOULD have spent a little more time at home.