Actually, I think that’s “wrath” and “hate”.

Which still would be a comparison of two completely different concepts (even further apart than “wrath” and “anger”).

My point in bringing it up is to show that the sacred/secular divide far predates any kind of gnosticism.

Actually, the concept is with certain things as “unclean” and “clean” (which has nothing to do with one being spiritual and one being physical) and with certain things as “holy” and others as “common” (which also has nothing to do with the gnostic categorization of physical/spiritual).

In both of these cases, it should be noted, that it is God who declares certain things “clean”/”holy” and other “unclean”/”common”, not man. And the “clean/holy” set is pretty limited. This is completely different than the modern usage of “sacred” vs. “secular”, which compartmentalizes and categorizes based upon opinion and usage (with a smattering of gnosticism) and not a God-breathed differentiation.

So, I would ask you the same question I asked PB on an earlier thread – which parts of your life are “Christian” and which parts are “secular”?

My point in bringing it up is to show that the sacred/secular divide far predates any kind of gnosticism. Whether it is necessarily something for today, or used rightly, would be another topic of discussion

I need to call my old Lit prof…

That you’re saying that I’m saying things that I haven’t said? Yes, you are doing just that. Is that you’re normal more of argument, iggy, or should I just feel special?

–2. there are about two scriptures that state God “hates” sinners.–

Really? And you haven’t referenced those in your explanations of them?

But then, to repeat my again, I’m talking about God’s wrath.

–Now deal with that.–

I get the impression that you’re not going to visit the link in my post above. Very well, then…

Ro 1:18
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Ro 2:5
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

Joh 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”

1Th 1:10
and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead–Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

Eph 5:6
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

Eph 2:3
All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

I’ve linked to scriptures dealing with God’s wrath towards men. Are those scriptures lying, iggy? Deal with them. Don’t accuse me of saying what I haven’t said.

1. I just did… didn’t you read what I stated?
2. there are about two scriptures that state God “hates” sinners. Yet if you understand it is related to being turned over to their own depravity, then you might begin to grasp that they had to go pretty far down the road to be so identified with their sin that it becomes their identity. In that there is little separation between that sinner and their sin.

3. To set focus just on “hate” which is still not the person, but that sin that took them so far to that point of delusion, is to miss that there are many more scriptures stating God’s kindness, love, compassion, grace, mercy, forgiveness, reconciliation, justification, sanctification… and so on.

4. God was satisfied at the cross. To state two OT scriptures as you are, nullifies the work of the Cross. You cannot mix Law and Grace as you are doing. If you do you have a schizophrenic God that Love/hates us as we are all sinners, we are all wrong, (no one is righteous). To state that God so loved the world then state that God hates sinners. Misses that sin is the issue… and that Jesus dealt with the issue on the Cross.

Now deal with that.

iggy

No, I’m not. Where have I said that God hates men?

I’ve linked to scriptures dealing with God’s wrath towards men. Are those scriptures lying, iggy? Deal with them. Don’t accuse me of saying what I haven’t said.

What would be the point of telling people to be reconciled to God if He wasn’t angry with them?

Well, it gets back to what people’s motivation is for coming to God. Is it to avoid punishment, or our they drawn by His beauty, love, and grace?

I think for one thing saying that God is angry is people and will pour some retribution on them in the future is saying that God is asking us to do something that He Himself will not do. He says we should bless those that curse us and not return evil for evil.

Actually, I think the whole point of the cross was that God took all the pain, suffering, etc. from our actions upon himself. So whether or not we live in that reality or remain trapped is up to us.

What would be the point of telling people to be reconciled to God if He wasn’t angry with them? Whether it’s an active or passive anger, as you describe above, or most likely some combination of both, that’s still what it is.

1. God caused the curse and cast Adam and Eve out of the garden not just because the sinned… but to keep them from eating from the tree of life.

2. God had a plan to redeem fallen man before man fell… Showing his compassion to man before man even had sin.

3. God chose to send His Son and die for us because He “so love the world”…

You are stating that God hates men… God hated sin. Some men are turn over to depraved minds and are lost in their OWN delusion. Yet, Jesus still died on the Cross for them out of Love for the Father.

There is no hate other than for sin at the Cross. To state that God hates men contradicts the bulk of scripture.

iggy

What would be the point of telling people to be reconciled to God if He wasn’t angry with them? Whether it’s an active or passive anger, as you describe above, or most likely some combination of both, that’s still what it is.

But again, we can find places in the Bible where God’s wrath is mentioned, even in the New Testament. Instead of giving some examples, I’ll give the link to this page…

http://classicbst.christianity.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?new=1&word=wrath&section=2&version=niv&language=en

…which gives several verses, and links to where they can be viewed in context.