It appears that Mrs Schlueter is on vacation (again!). I have only a short thought on her post announcing that she is on vacation: I agree with what she said!!!

Much has happened/is happening, and we just need to remember that truth divides. We aren’t going to be loved for speaking biblical truth. In fact, Christ told us we would be hated. So when people mock at you, sneer and throw your past in your face, ridicule and stir up discord, realize that it’s all been done to God’s people before. We’re just the latest in the long train of believers down through history to face this stuff. As we serve the Lord, God is doing things in our own hearts and lives, as well. That should give us hope that He who began a good work in us will be faithful to complete it. Have a wonderful rest of the week.

The only real problem is that I don’t think any of us ever expected that such mocking, sneering, ridiculing, discord, and hatred would come from inside the church now did we? But, to answer your question, yes, Mrs Schlueter, we are the latest in the long train of believers down through history to face this stuff.

Soli Deo Gloria!

PS–I pray for Mr & Mrs Schlueter’s safety and that they have a great vacation!

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13 Comments(+Add)

1   Rick Frueh
July 30th, 2008 at 4:58 pm

Truth doesn’t always divide. Truth united me with my Savior in 1975!

2   Chad
July 30th, 2008 at 5:05 pm

Isn’t truth meant to set you free?

And good point, jerry – those words of Jesus were not warnings to his disciples to be on guard for people within the church who also confess Jesus as their Lord. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Rather, Jesus was right to say that when you proclaim peace over the sword, when you claim Jesus is Lord and not Caesar, you will be mocked and even killed.

Happy vacation, Ingrid.

3   Neil    
July 30th, 2008 at 5:06 pm

Do ya suppose she would deny that she mocks, sneers, ridicules and stirs up discord all within and against the Body of Christ?


4   Phil Miller
July 30th, 2008 at 5:11 pm

The thing I would say is that ridicule and hatred aren’t some sort of barometer for righteousness at all. Yes, it may happen, but it doesn’t mean we should seek it out.

Sometimes I get the idea that some Christians have the idea that they aren’t being faithful unless they’re constantly embroiled in some huge controversy.

5   Chad
July 30th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

That is a great point, Phil. I am sure that Ingrid would not want anyone to say that Rick Warren and Bell and the rest she critizes that because they get heaps of ridicule that this proves they are on the right path.

6   nc    
July 30th, 2008 at 5:26 pm


I can see the nail prints now…

7   Jerry Hillyer
July 30th, 2008 at 5:53 pm

In fact, I just read this: “For Paul, then, practice is the visible criterion that we have seriously received grace and also that we have entered effectively into God’s plan. For Paul, as for Jesus, practice is the touchstone of authenticity. We are in the presence here of something that is constant across the centuries.”–Jacquest Ellul, The Subversion of Christianity, 5-6

In other words, it is not the fact that we are or are not persecuted for ‘faith’ that is the marker of whether or not we have seriously entered into Christ and truly belong to the redeemed. The model is Ephesians 2:8-10: “Saved by grace…for good works…prepared by God for us.”


I think I’m going to like this book.

8   Chris P.    
July 30th, 2008 at 7:06 pm

As usual all of Chad’s “scripture cites” are out of their context.
Just like his comments over at extremetheology.

1. “those words of Jesus were not warnings to his disciples to be on guard for people within the church who also confess Jesus as their Lord. ”
The question is which Jesus are you professing belief in.
1 Timothy 6:
3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness,4 4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, ( not a reference to odms btw, those who like the post modern muddied waters fit this bill.)

2 Cor 11:
4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

2. “A house divided against itself cannot stand.”
This was in reference to the accusations of the pharisees that Jesus was casting out demons by the power of Satan.
The scriptures are clear that the church, i.e. the Body of Christ is never divided otherwise it is laid waste, and it is never “laid waste”, and arminian notion if there ever was one. Think about it.
Matthew 12:
24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” 25 Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?

3. “Rather, Jesus was right to say that when you proclaim peace over the sword, when you claim Jesus is Lord and not Caesar, you will be mocked and even killed. ”
Matthew 10:
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

As for Ellul, isn’t he the patron saint of christian anarchy?
No doubt you’ll love the book.
The church judges the church, according to Paul.
2 Peter 2 and Jude are written to the church about the false apostles and prophets.

9   Jerry
July 30th, 2008 at 7:45 pm

Chris P.,

I cannot say too much about it Ellul at this point. After all, I am only 6 pages into the book and this is the first of his books I have read. However, I have a friend who happens to be a bit more erudite on matters of whose books I ought to read than you so I think I will take his word over yours. Thanks anyhow.


10   Chad
July 30th, 2008 at 7:51 pm

Thanks, Chris P. I believe you prove my point.

take care.

11   Rick Frueh
July 30th, 2008 at 7:54 pm

Hey Chris P. – arminian notion? I will graciously reserve a Calvinistic rant I have in reserve for a special occasion. :evil:

12   Jerry
July 30th, 2008 at 8:01 pm


Yes, it is quite remarkable what a person armed with Biblegateway can do. I think Chris P actually demonstrates Ellul’s point: “Paul incessantly insists on the critical importance of practice.” And, “They [critics of Christianity] demolish Christianity, that is, the deviation to which Chrisitan practice has subjected God’s revelation.”—Ellul, 6


13   Neil    
July 30th, 2008 at 8:36 pm

Chris P.,

Your post serves as a great illustration as to why they ODM’s tend to judge people’s salvation. They must first remove them from the body so that they may attack them.