You present a really cool question that I have avoided answering to myself many times. I think God has been pretty silent to me on this matter, but that shouldn’t stop us from seeking. Certainly Paul believed in Christ when Christ spoke to him, and from Paul’s other writings, this would indicate salvation on Paul’s part. But then you have the situation 3 days later coming along where he’s told to be baptized and wash his sins off. Interesting twist. You also should consider when Paul was telling his testimony he mentioned how God had revealed Jesus in him. That in itself is a very odd statement

Also, let’s think about the fact that perhaps Paul’s conversion experience was a bit unorthodox compared to the majority of Christians. Of course we have to realize that the specific circumstances under which a person is saved are different from person to person. Same Jesus, same Way, different circumstances. So who says it has to be totally uniformed? I wasn’t baptized until a year after I was first saved.

Overall..I kind of have this idea about all of this. God stands outside of time, so to Him it seems to me that things are see as a constant state of ‘already happened’. We’re linear, God is not. So perhaps it’s all a moot point, maybe that’s why Christians cannot agree about the subject. Maybe it’s debatable because God would like to see us work it out with eachother in mercy and grace. Maybe God wants us to focus on Jesus all the more, and on His saving power, not our own ideas. Just some thoughts.

Joe

Joe, I’m going to ask for a little speculation. At what moment do you think Paul placed his faith in Christ? We have a few places where Paul’s conversion story is told, so it’s not complete speculation. Do you think it was after Jesus finished speaking? Maybe as he was being helped into Damascus ? Maybe on day two of being blind and he had some time to take in what just happened? The moment Ananias showed up and verified what Jesus already told him?

If we can separate Paul’s acknowledgment of the truth of who Jesus is with faith in Jesus, when do you think he saw the truth? When he was blided? etc.

I am curious to know having never thought about it until this evening. It is speculation and I can’t imagine what emotions and thoughts were going through Paul’s mind. But I think Paul saw the truth when he saw Jesus. He even asked what he should do. Three days of blindness pass. And then Ananias shows up and tells him he’s going to receive his sight and the Holy Spirit. He tells him to get up and be baptized, washing away his sins, calling on the name of Jesus Christ. It strikes me that three days after seeing Jesus, after asking what he should do, he is told his sins will be washed away. Can we be in Christ, can we be saved, without our sins being washed away? Does this mean that Saul/Paul didn’t have faith until that time? Was his going to damascus to wait on the person the Lord would send not in obedience to the very Jesus that appeared to him?

I’m not trying to develop a systematic theology from this, but I think it’s worth discussing (especially since the first time I’ve thought about this particular situation is tonight). Especially in light of the timing of faith and baptism.

And you have to get gold. Or bust.

Really I was just listing the amalgamation of everything that had been talked about concerning baptism in this thread by us silly Christians. If we’re all over the map on this, what are we going to say to the babies in Christ? That’s what I want to know. Because a bunch of you keep saying “it’s really not that complicated/hard/confusing” but this thread and your arguments say the COMPLETE opposite

What I meant by ‘baptism comes later’ is that regardless of 5 minutes later or 1 year later, it comes after the conversion/placing ones faith in Christ for salvation (which I think we all agree is what actually SAVES a person to God/for God)

Peace

Joe

Seriously, Paul C. it baffles me that you would assert that I’m arguing from sentiment, considering your own view of church history is clearly derived from a certain “sentiment” no matter how hard you try to say otherwise. Not to mention your own anecdotal experiences with infant baptism…it just doesn’t cut it.

The point about my wife is that you can’t make blanket statements about the value of infant baptism and later confirmation of anyone as being meaningless–or somehow suspect, wrong and all inherently “popish”…

It’s not about my sentiment for my wife…she’s just a great example of how the discipleship process of infant baptism on through 14 years to confirmation can actually mean something, do good and set a fantastic foundation for a person’s walk with God.

At the end of the day your “church history” is fuzzy and your blanket assertions are unfounded.

Different? Oh you have no idea! Hey – the storm is headed toward Tampa, pray for us.