Comments on: more trash talkin’

By: Eugene Roberts

Eugene Roberts — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 22:10:41 +0000

Thank you for those stats Chris L. Did you find it on GCC’s website?

By: Joe C

Joe C — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:02:46 +0000

Just like any growing human being in physical life, all Christians need to take the responsibility to self feed. That’s my posistion, Paul seems to indicate the same. Solid food is deep teaching AND self-feeding. How can it be any other way, outside of being pew-lazy?

The pastor and other mature Christians are to be the ones getting the babies and children in Christ the ability to self-feed and get that solid food.

By: IWanthetruth

IWanthetruth — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:33:14 +0000

Ennis & Joe,

Thanks, I seem not be able to communicate my thoughts on this matter very well so I leave it at that.

I personally see a probem with this statement…

“It all comes back to this (and I completely agree with Bill Hybels and the pastor at Granger over these results), the job of the pastor is not to feed the sheep. The job of the pastor is to make self-feeders.”

I believe it is 1/2 correct or 1/2 wrong, which ever way you want to take it.

We agree to disagree.

I thank my Lord for re-kindling in my heart a desire and passion to want to know Him deeper through His word and relationship with Him and unfortunantely I didn’t get that where I was going but, took the responsibility to “self-feed”. When people leave a church because they want more then I think something is amiss and that is what I believe has happened at this RW/BH style church.

Blessings

By: Joe C

Joe C — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:32:48 +0000

Bo, you are correct. Meaty sermons does not equal disciples. Getting one on one with someone and pouring your life and the Word in to theirs is how you make a disciple who will then be qualified to teach others (like Jesus did). 2 Timothy 2:2

By: Bo Diaz

Bo Diaz — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:24:02 +0000

You evangelicals are funny. The idea that a “meaty” sermon will result in disciples is rather absurd. Sermons are clubs of communication, they do a great job at getting across large thematic communications, but are not all that good at much else. Anything that requires detailed communiques or subtle nuance is not going to work well. Both of which are requirements for producing quality disciples.

By: Joe C

Joe C — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:47:58 +0000

Correct Ennis. If Christians never learn to self feed (ie, self study, getting the solid food for themselves, and feeding it to themselves) they’re a little bit like a full grown adult having another adult cut up their steak for them and feed it to them on a fork. It’s a little weird looking…and it’s not God’s perfered way of having things work out in a Christians life.
We try to keep people as babies in our churches too much, and we’re hamstringing ourselves.

By: EnnisP

EnnisP — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 13:38:17 +0000

Hey IWTT,
This may not apply to you personally but the way some churches do Bible study is like telling a twelfth grader they did very good to get through the first twelve years but now they must do another twelve years of the same stuff so they can go deeper. And the cycle is repeated again after that.

Most Bible study programs DO NOT have a clear course of training with a graduation point in view. I know many will disagree but RW does have that kind of structure. He is referred to as humanistic and secular styled but really, it is just good organization, anti-confusing, and God honors that. If we trained medical doctors the way we disciple Christians none would ever qualify.

By: IWanthetruth

IWanthetruth — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:22:50 +0000

Chris,

I just re-read your statement. Sorry, maybe we are saying the same thing….

By: IWanthetruth

IWanthetruth — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:20:23 +0000

#49 Chris…

You left out “…and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you…” of your own verse.

What does that mean to you? Teaching seems to me that it is also the responsibility to teach the things of God.

Goodness gracious, great balls of fire! Are we taking sections out of verses to proof here when the context means both. If teaching wasn’t an important part of this whole thing (discipling) then why is there going to be greater judgements for those who do teach?

I believe that the truth is both ways. It is our responsibility to show ourselves approved and to be able to rightly divide (teach?) the word and at the same time it is the responsibility of the pastor (the shepard of the flock who prepares us for ministry) to learn to rightly divide the word. It is all of our responsibility and frankly it’s a bit nerve racking knowing we will be judged for how we do teach.

I think this statement as “The job of the pastor is to make self-feeders.” means that yes it is your job to teach and feed the flock so that they/we can also go out and do the same.

By: Chris L

Chris L — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:04:35 +0000

Kyle: RW teaching is salvation by works.

Please demonstrate this. Stating something idiotic like this doesn’t make it true. Of course that’s the problem with ODM logic of “proof by assertion” (if you say something enough times it becomes true) – it just doesn’t fly.