When the church becomes a stench in the nostrils of the unsaved, not because of the gospel, but because of lousy manners and uncouth behavior, it’s time to pull the plug on these farcical churches and admit it’s a joke. When Christ is really at the forefront of our lives and ministries, the neighbors will be grateful to have our churches in their neighborhoods. [links added]
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122 Comments(+Add)
I’m confused. I thought we were supposed to offend non-Christians. I thought they were supposed to hate us.
I guess when non-Christians are offended by something that offends us, it’s good, but when we do something we think is OK that offends them, it’s their problem.
These stories about noise levels are always kind of tricky. It’s hard to say if it just neighbors with an ax to grind, or it’s genuinely that loud. Without getting an actual dB reading from outside the church, it’s all conjecture and rather meaningless.
Also, this must be the engineer in me that thinks this line is funny, but this cracks me up:
Well, Duh! Thank you Captain Obvious! That’s like saying, “the more I put my hands under the faucet, the wetter they became.”
Phil!
Welcome to the Beloved.Elect.Remnant Fold!
You’ve been regenerated by Chris P (the Holy Spirit.2) and now know the absolute truth of the authoritative, inerrant, infallible, inspired, inimitable, irresistable, unconditional Bible!
It is your sacred duty and calling to treat people like crap in the name of our Lord!
How else will they know the truth about their “crap-ness” unless they have a preacher?
welcome!
blessed art thou among remnant elect, beloved.
Today the angels rejoice!
“I’m picking up on your sarcasm.”
“Well I should hope so, I’m laying it on pretty thick.”
Name the movie.
Then tone it down.
What about Jesus saying they hated me so also will they hate you. If unsaved people are enemies of God, why would they be friends and happy to see His children?
That’s what I’m saying…
Ingrid should happy and holding up this church as an example. They’re pissing off the entire neighborhood.
LOL, Well if they became calvinist the rest of the community could sleep in on Sundays.
Kyle, are there unsaved people in your life that don’t hate you, or have you gone out of your way to make sure they’ll never want to have anything to with another Christian?
Were you not once an enemy of God? What happened to you?
Not sure, I don’t know what they acutal think of me, but most of the time I get a long with most people. I know you understand the issue, so why ask crazy question. We are to be loving and kind just like Jesus, but regardless people will hate us simply becuase of the name of Christ. But we should always seek to live quite and peaceable lives, not causing trouble.
Love wins.
Yes I was. God chagned me and saved me. He reconiciled Himself to me and me to Him. It is a great thing. Finish your thought becasue I am not sure where you are headed with those questions.
It just seems strange to me how we look at people from the other side of the fence. I mean, imagine being set free from a concentration camp, only to look back and say “they are all just dirty prisoners. What do you expect from them.”
It’s crazy how we talk about non believers.
That is not a good analogy. We are not innocent viticms in a prison camp. We are active rebel particapating in cosmic treason against our Creator. So if the people in the camp seek to kill God and ruin His kingdom and kill His servants and then they even kill the Kings own Son. Then the agalogy would work.
“Sin in a wicked man is like poision in a snake it is where it belongs.”
Thomas Brooks
If you view non-believers like that, it seems to me that it’s only a small jump to start thinking of them as the enemy. If they are actively working against God, than it naturally follows they are working against the Church. It doesn’t take much to start thinking they need to be defeated then.
The fact is that God was for us even while we were yet sinners. He called us Beloved before we knew Him, and while we were still lost. He ran to us while we were still far off.
My My
nc shows that he knows neither the scriptures, nor the power of the author.
I am sure you are one of those in “the bible is just a story” crowd.
The only sites I am “crappy” towards are this one, a certain sedevacantist theological-nazi blog and any other sites that “claim” to speak for the “real church’. You will notice I have never made such a claim anywhere.
FYI, this past year we have seen more brand new christians and “seeking” unbelievers, (i.e. those whom the Lord is drawing to Himself), in our church then any other time.
Thank God our leadership teaches scripture, in deed and truth.
Finally, I would ask if you have a problem with Tozer and the quote at CRN you linked to.
I happen to be the one who posted it.
Tozer is one of the idols od the ecm, and yet, he would never support their spurious doctrines
They are, that is how the bible descrides humans in general. But God so loved the world…
So we should also have the same emtions towards heatheans. When we are set free by the King we should fell sorrow that there are still so many in bondage and beseech the king to also set them free.
They do need to be deafted along with the devil, but here is the good news they have already. The strong man has been disarmed by Christ. Now we are called to be misintires of reconiclition that is found in Christ. So that they can be called out of darkness into His marvelus light.
One mo thought;
The spin applied here to try and show that Ingrid’s post is somehow contradictory to her other writings is a joke.
It proves that youb really do not read anything posted at her site, at CRN or any of the affilaited blogs.
Your eisegetical methods are apparent, no matter what it is you are “decondstructing”.
OK guys. This seems to be a classic example of “homies” get a free pass which you are so against in the ODM camp, but you are doing exactly the same thing here. CRN.Info has run several articles and the comment sections have overflowed regarding being hated for being a jerk vs. being hated for the gospel’s sake. Here is an example of a church being hated because they are not being good neighbors and the church gets a free pass because the ODMs are ragging on them? Double standard guys.
To this chuch I would say: are you loving your neighbors (i.e., agape love = benefit to others at my expense) or are you literally being a noisy gong and clanging cymble?
I will have to admit, however, it was pretty hysterical when the dude said the noise got louder the closer they got to the church. Priceless!
Umm…no.
Actually Nathan is agreeing with Ingrid here, I believe.
My point in my earlier comments was that there wasn’t enough information given in the article to really make an accurate assessment. I’m not naive enough to believe that all the compaints churches receive are valid, as I’ve seen some pretty petty people in my life.
If this town has a noise ordinance, and the church is in violation of it, it should rectify the situation and apologize. Even if it’s not in violation it should make every reasonable effort to be a good neighbor. To some neighbors though, I’m sure every reasonable effort would mean shutting down completely.
We just aren’t given all the facts in the article.
By the way, the quote I posted from the article wasn’t meant as a defense of the church – if anything it was a critique of poor journalism. I mean, come on, do we really need to be told that a noise source will get louder the closer you get to it?
Hey how do you spell “cymble”. That just doesn’t look right. :~(
John, I took this OP to show that Nathan concurred with Slice.
I took his “Amen” as agreement.
Christian:
Tommy Boy uttered by David Spade AKA Richard.
Phil,
You type faster than I.
WHAT? WHAT DID YOU SAY?
**removing ear plugs**
Oh, My bad. I repent in dust and ashes. It was hard to tell, especially from some of the comments.
Well, I was being facetious in my earlier comments. It just seems to me that the ODMs can’t make up their minds to whether we’re supposed to be good neighbors to the heathens or whether the heathens should hate us.
” What about Jesus saying they hated me so also will they hate you. If unsaved people are enemies of God, why would they be friends and happy to see His children? ”
Can someone explain then what this mean, that the world will hate you. Why was jesus making this statements and to who?
Jose,
Honestly, even though I always wanted that verse to apply to me, that the world would hate me… I couldn’t help shake the nagging feeling that he was specifically speaking to the apostles and what they were about to go through for the next couple decades.
Either way, it’s still not an excuse to ‘be a jerk fo’ Jeeeesus!’
Joe
He did not want His followers to be surisped by persuction or trails, because no one is greater than there master, therefore if they hated Christ they will also hate His followers.
If the world hates you because you tell people that Jesus is God, that’s “good hatred” toward you.
If the world hates you because you can’t find your volume control knob, that’s “bad hatred” toward you.
Why is this so hard for some people to understand?
-Aaron
What about street preachers using megaphones or loud sound systems in public places? They are generally held up as martyrs by ODMs.
Gospel being spoken – Good for them! And I would commend them for being that ballsy to yell at people from the sidewalk knowing that someone could stab them if annoyed enough.
Using LOUD, obnoxious, and disruptive methods – Shame on them for being loud, obnoxious, and disruptive.
I rememeber Rob Bell’s “Bullhorn guy” video and it really spoke a lot of good ideas and points about the whole idea of yelling at people. The funny part was that later, Todd Friel (sp?) countered with a video saying that Rob Bell was wrong and that public ministry was wrong. However, all that Todd Friel ended up doing was showing that a personal, one-on-one ministry with people in the street is very effective, supporting Rob’s point. Rob’s whole point was that “spray-and-pray” preaching doesn’t work and turns people away from Christianity and poor unfortunate preachers who just happen to have loud voices in church. One-on-one ministry, regardless of the environment, is the one of the better ways to do it outside of a church.
I believe that people take the whole “People will hate you because of me” verse WAY too far and use it to simply justify being an ass and avoiding the whole loving, caring, nurturing, loving our enemies portion.
I read the original article and then the comments at the end of the article. Seems the church is having the services outside in the tent from 5:30 to 12:00 in the PM. Who knows how actually loud they are being but if the police are being called so much for crying out loud go inside the church. I know in my neighborhood sound travels easily. If I played my stereo with my window open from 5:30 to 12:00 my wonderful neighbors would have me in jail.
So the ” world will hate you” does not apply today?
What about persecution? China,India,Russia or many other places?
There’s alot of hate directed at christians today.
Jose,
No, the world ‘hates’ us, to be sure, but we shouldn’t be looking to be persecuted or hated in order to validate our faith. That’s a weak faith if you ask me.
It seems odd to me that the church has gotten permits for these events, but they are still being given citations. That’s why I’m saying it looks like there’s information missing.
The systems of this world do hate Christ, but Jesus said we are salt and light and that men may see our lives and glorify the Father. We as believers should not be hated by the common sinner, only the evil systems of men.
Chris P,
There you go speaking ex cathedra again, Chris P. I’m glad you’re confident with your new job. Talk about the corner office–a spot on the Trinity!
Actually with the comment about being crappy I wasn’t really thinking about you…I was more just stringing along my joke about your tendency to make pronouncements that sound a lot like you’re bucking for the job of the Holy Spirit. Thanks for proving my point.
My My
nc shows that he knows neither the scriptures, nor the power of the author.
I am sure you are one of those in “the bible is just a story” crowd.
classic. see what I mean?
you don’t know anything about me or my view of the Scriptures. But I get it…it goes with the job of being Holy Spirit. Thank the Father he replaced your incompetent predecessor.
The only sites I am “crappy” towards are this one, a certain sedevacantist theological-nazi blog and any other, blah blah blah blah
you forgot being crappy to everyone here too…but that’s right, you’re the new Holy Spirit…you probably forgot to your own glory.
Tozer is one of the idols od the ecm, and yet, he would never support their spurious doctrines
so glad you’re at the secret meeting that established that across the board with the ecm and tozer.
Speaking of having the inside track, maybe during the break we’ll run into some of the illuminati (in ballroom 3) and the tri-lateral commission folk out in the hall and go catch a couple beers…
thanks for the laugh.
There will be plenty of times “common sinners” will hate us for being christian. But your point is well taken. I think everyone agrees that noone should seek to be hated by the world. Paul told us to live quite lives, and as far as it depends on us live at peace with everyone. So there will be times that people hate us for no cause, but as a whole most people and societies accept christians because of there good deed’s that glorify God to an extent.
Chris P,
I forgot to mention how glad I am that you and your church’s emergent/PDL philosophy is seeing fruit!
I’ve always said it was a double whammy!
NC
I just want to warn you, your comments about the Holy Spirit if not blasphemous, are bordering on it. I would be careful.
This has been an age old problem, sound level, too loud, not loud enough.
First off, if you are offending your brother because it is too loud, turn it down. We don’t have the liberty we think we do. Second, decibel levels that are too high can hurt the ears and cause some deafness. Turn it down. I wouldn’t want my child in that situation. Third, get over it being all about what YOU want and think of others. God doesn’t need it to be loud.
Hmmm I wonder what the children of Israel did when they crossed the wilderness. No PA equipment, what are we to do.
Disclaimer; This comment is not directed at anyone who has posted here. It is a general statement about sound levels, loudness, etc. that I have had to deal with in my own church experience. It has been so loud at times that it is distorted, making everything sound terrible and that is not doing your best for the Lord.
nc,
I am just a lurker here.I can really understand your frustration with Chris P’s tin foil hat “truth” but in this one instance I agree with PB . please stop with this line of sarcasm.
thanks,Opus
I don’t think that guy that is open air preaching is being loud or uncouth! I think he is preaching the Gospel. It might disturb people, but that does not mean it is wrong. His PA is for the purpose of not raising his voice; when you open air preach without amplification it can seem like yelling.
I’m not disputing you at all. It’s definitely a tricky issue. I think there’s generational and personal preference in play here. Personally, I would like the music to be loud enough that I can’t hear the person beside me singing or talking and I can feel the bass in my chest. I find it allow me to be much more focused on worship and God that way. Now there are definitely times when the Holy Spirit is present and quietness is in order, too.
If overall, though, it’s so quiet in worship that I hear people talking and moving papers around, I find it distracting. I’m sure a big part of this has to do with the fact that I’m a musician, so in a way I find anything louder than the musicians sort of disrespectful.
To disturb the neighborhood until midnight is ridiculous and self indulgent. I suggest a barbecue to make a pleasant stench in the unsaved nostrils.
PS – God doesn’t hear anything but yelling! Read your Bible!
By the way, a sure sign that Satan has a foothold in a church is when they put one of those blasted acrylic shields around the drums…
Chris,
I wonder….could you make the same accusation across the board to all open air preachers? Do these people seem annoyed? Is the preacher (me) in this situation a stench?
I am taking a small risk in asking this. I know you already think I am a stench. But that aside, is there ever a time open air preaching in your mind is appropriate?
hmmmm….
so it’s ok to simply state:
“you’re playing God” with your statements?
But to explicitly and accurately state what the clear behavior/statements from certain people actually means is not ok.
got it.
Wouldn’t you think that one who reveres the Holy Spirit would be pretty indignant about people like Chris P, PB, their guru Ken, etc. usurping his role?
I will respect Opus (and some others sensitivities), but to be clear, PB, I do not acknowledge you or your self-inflated “warning”….
You’re not Elisha and there isn’t any bear coming for me (See Chris P, I actually do know the Bible, and think that stuff actually happened.)
As I’ve asked about your guru, Ken, and the other imams: Who are you and why should I care anything you think or say?
honestly.
It’s harsh, but then again, we’ll see how amenable people are to it when it’s them who’s getting the wood laid to them.
Whatever.
NC
I do not plan to know you, but your sarcastic/satire is dangerous playing with a Holy God. Do not test the Lord your God, especially with something as trite as your one upmanship of whomever.
I could care less if you hate me or despise me, I am just concerned for the name of God that you are playing with.
huh…I didn’t know I was in a game of one upmanship…I thought I was just calling it like I see it.
But thanks for standing into the great tradition of your guru, high priestess and the other imams: the supernatural gift of looking into our hearts and minds.
Really…
Is it not the case when someone makes statements about another person’s knowledge of God, their status as a Christian, etc. when they know nothing of them that they are standing in a sphere of knowledge reserved really only for the Holy Spirit?
that’s blasphemy, chief. That’s taking to yourself what only belongs to God.
For a person who supposedly adores the truth, you sure don’t like it when it gets placed unequivocally in one of your fellow imam’s lap…
Again, how does it feel to be a man-centered sycophant, pb?
Yes…I can tell you really care about the sanctity of the “Lord your God”.
On a personal note:
At the end of the day, PB, you give yourself too much credit.
I neither hate you nor despise you.
Just in case that doesn’t compute, as I suspect it might not:
I neither hate you nor despise you.
What is true is this:
I don’t know you. And that’s the point.
Let that sink in and think about it.
You overestimate your voice and your place.
But, for what it’s worth, “thanks” for your warning.
“test the Lord your God”…yeeesh. Ya know, no matter how much you attempt some rhetorical flair by peppering your speech with literary fragments of the Holy Scripture doesn’t mean you’ll get anywhere.
Talk about being calloused with the things of God…
Like I said NC, I don’t pretend to know you, and I frankly don’t care what you think.
I am concerned for you, like with anyone else, who casually uses the name of the Lord.
You have been warned, take it however you desire to, but your blood is not on my hands, so to speak. I am not calling into question your status as a Christian, I do, however, judge the way that you casually place a man in the role of the Holy Spirit, even if you are attempting satire, you are using the Father’s name and telling Him satirically that the Holy Spirit’s replacement is not doing a very Good job.
It is just far too casual for me, but, you have been warned and exhorted.
Your blood is not on my hands.
PB,
It never was… Jesus took away the sins of the world… but you don’t believe that… again you give yourself too much credit and take the Glory from God… I think nc stated it well…
So I guess you live by works instead of Grace and the finished works of Jesus… at least from this statement and other you have said.
iggy
So is that your way of saying that you think Chris P should be the replacement and is doing a good job?
because I’m critiquing his statements that clearly arrogate to himself the role of the Holy Spirit.
But that doesn’t bother you?
hmmmm….
of course it doesn’t, because it’s the same rhetoric that your guru uses.
you can cast it however you want, but when the plain and clear implications of what is being claimed by Chris P and the other imams is explicitly stated then you try to take the moral highground. You just don’t like the truth when it means you and your friends have to face it.
Again, even your high-minded claim about my “blood” only demonstrates my critique: You think too highly of yourself and your position. The fact that you clearly believe you have to been excused from some form of responsibility is a staggering display of hubris. That you would even think that it’s your place to “warn” me is baffling.
The only warning I’ve received is that you and the other imams think it should be dangerous for people who don’t lay down and take it.
Have fun with your gospel, PB…it’s clear your good news is really only the “good news” of your own righteousness.
Igs,
re:Talk about being calloused with the things of God…
actually I’m the one who wrote that…
nc,
I quoted you… as I stated that “I think nc stated it well” then quoted you…. and still I think you stated it very well… and agree…
iggy
In no way is what nc is saying blasephemy. If anyone is guilty of blasphemy it is those who set themselves up in the same place as God by asserting they have the ability to discern who is in and who is out. It’s those who think it’s their job to separate the “real” Christians from the “fake”.
Although John may be somewhat melodramatic in his “blood on my hands” phrase, we should be careful how we satrized the name of God and especially the Holy Spirit. A little caution is in order.
Continue…
So Phil, Igs, and NC, you stand in His place also?
How do you know, Phil, if God is not offended by it? His Word seems pretty clear that his name is to be esteemed above all else.
How do you know I am not living by Grace? If it were not for grace, me above all people would be in HUGE trouble. I would be lost to this day.
But since I have been saved by His grace, I love His holy name. It makes me sad to see it used as a tool to insult and mock those who have been saved by His blood.
Well, your actions could say something about that…
Joe,
God bless you. Thanks for your judgement.
Grace = life
Law = death
Amen, Rick.
PB,
No, I see the abuse of Jesus to be used as a tool to judge and condemn others as you do often, is wrong and is blasphemy…
I see that if Jesus did not come to condemn others, they why do you think you can? Why do you see yourself as able to condemn others and give not grace.
You speak out both sides of you mouth so much that I am often embarrassed for you.
You claim grace… but give so little of it to others… you claim to be a reconciliationist, but by your words and actions seem to not grasp what that even is.
iggy
LOL,
Don’t be so quick to slap yourself on the back and pin your “I AM a marytyr pin on your chest” just yet there John. I didn’t judge you, go back and read the comment again. I said, your actions could say something about that. Either good or bad.
Seriously, where did you get your education? I want to go there. Gotta be easy A’s
Joe,
I definitely would want to be counseled by you.
Blessings,
PS Howabout those SOX?
“PS Howabout those SOX?”
It is a sign of the apocalypse.
What does that mean? Is that playground bullying there? Is that supposed to hurt my feelings? That a guy who can throw anything out he wants but then gets upset when he or one of his cronies is critiqued, is sniping at me with his words? That a guy that claims to love Jesus and God but acts like…well not like either one of them… is mocking me?
That a guy who puts something out there to show how mean we are here but then has to edit out his guru’s statements because they don’t support his hypothesis is saying he doesn’t think I’d be a good counselor.
Well, Golly Gee Wally, that really hurts!
Seriously, though I would think counseling might help you.
I didn’t know you and Obama both cheered for the White Sox.
Actually, this could be a fun game.
John,
I sure would like to live next to you.
or
I sure would like to have you as my pastor.
or
I sure would like to have you in class with me.
or
I sure would like for you to be related to me.
or
I sure would like for someone I love to marry you.
or
I sure would like to spend some quality time with you so you could write an open letter to me.
or
I sure would like to do an interview with you so your wife could write me a letter talking about where I got you off track.
or
I sure hope you have a blessed day.
Oh, I forgot.
Joe is a Yankees fan.
Sorry Joe!
I am talking about the Red Sox, not the White Sox. I am more a Cubs fan than a White Sox Fan.
Anyhow, I hope the Yanks go on a terrific winning streak starting tonight against the Red Sox, and overtake Tampa Bay and get into the World Series.
John,
As I’ve read through many of your thoughts on scripture, history, and what God requires for salvation I’ve got to ask…why are you so afraid of different thoughts? No one here as ever denied that:
1)Jesus Died for our sins.
2) “Believe on me” is required for salvation.
3) Christ is the only way to Heaven.
Yet you seem so myopic in your view of Grace and Faith that everything you say sounds like religious dogma. Which leaves me wondering; why do you think God needs you to defend him?
1)Jesus Died for our sins.
2) “Believe on me” is required for salvation.
3) Christ is the only way to Heaven.
Before I can authenticate your profession, Chris, I need to know you views on repentance, election, sovereignty, depravity, and have you ever been in the same room with Rick Warren.
After reviewing those answers I can get back to you.
Yes…but I didn’t sit directly next to or across from. I did ask him one question though…”Could you please pass the salt” to which he responded “Sure, here you go”.
Am I still safe to go to Heaven Rick?
Is it “Let’s bash Pastorboy”-day?
Chris,
Was his passing the salt an act of kindness or purpose?
I have to check this to determine if you are ‘in’
Eugene, Sure! lets all Join in!
I think Joe should make a post entitled John Chisham and you guys can all pile on. After all, thats what the church is all about!
I know you won’t pile on, Eugene. You seem to have too much class for that.
“Could you please pass the salt” must be viewed as a disingenuous kindness perpetrated on an unsuspecting person in order to capture you in the PDL web. I would have thought you were more prescient than that, Chris.
I would offer you grace but until I see some works I cannot.
Guys, I think we can tell the truth without all the snide remarks. I do not agree with much that PB say but I do not agree with how you treat him right now as well. Let love be our guide. Please.
There. Fixed it.
Thanks, Eugene.
Watch out, though. They may lump you together with me and the attack dogs will bite.
And it is okay. They can attack all they wish. They do not have to answer to me, you, or any other human authority.
PB,
You’re too much. You do realize that you’re editing Ingrid’s words, not Nathan’s.
It seems to me that you’ve brought any of this upon yourself. Charging someone of blasphemy and not having any facts to back it up is a pretty big deal. So don’t pretend everyone’s just picking on you or something.
Civil discourse among Christians, a novel concept that will never catch on.
Jesus said “Do unto others what they do unto you”.
Now that we have that cleared up…
Phil,
I never charged anyone with blasphemy. I warned NC about the casual use of God’s name, and attributing Holy Spirit status to a human in mockery.
And I don’t care where the quote is from, isn’t it funny how it fits here?
I actually liked PB’s edit. The only problem is that where it says CRN.info it should say ‘Slice of Laodicea’ or “Apprising ‘Ministries’” or something like that…
For all of us:
From 1 Cor 13 in the Message
[ ... ] added by me
(Sorry, PB, I know you don’t like the Message. I do though)
PB,
This is what you said:
So, that’s pretty darn close to it. Based on that comment, I don’t even think you understand what blasphemy means, though.
I’ve said it before, love wins.
What is blashemy?
PB<
It is the misspelling of the word you don’t understand…
Pretty simple… even I could figure that out.
iggy
Grow up. You’re refusal to own up to your own words speaks for itself.
Blasphemy = maligning and speaking disrespectfully of the most historic and spiritual college football program today -
The Fighting Irish of Notre Dame.
Seems like the ODMs dislike this blog, judging from the number of hit-and-run remarks by Ingrid, Ken et al.
So why are they still visiting, commenting, warning, etc, folks on this blog?
By the way, has anyone on this blog been “converted” by the ODMs?
“By the way, has anyone on this blog been “converted” by the ODMs?”
I repeated the prayer but it didn’t take.
In this part of the country, it used to be considered blasphemy to speak badly of Joe Paterno. It’s gotten to be less so in the last few years, though.
I will always love Paterno!
Rick,
Should have repented publicly (thru’ a lengthy post, repudiating all that you have held in the past – i.e. heresies), and show fruits of repentance (write a few posts in support of SOL, Appraising, etc) against in order to be converted (i.e. one of the ODMs).
You should have known this by now!
In the end, I am not an ODM elect!
Rick,
As long as you are Spirit-born… that’s all that matters.
huh…if there’s no charge of “blasphemy” then why all the language about “blood”?
Just so we’re clear:
#1: PB’s fellow imam, Chris P, made statements that materially arrogated to himself the role and knowledge of the Holy Spirit. (Who’s actually doing the attribution of H.S. status?)
#2: I sarcastically critiqued Chris P’s ex cathedra claims–articulating formally the implications of his statements.
#3: #1 doesn’t bother PB.
I’m curious…
How do you get anyone to progress in this game?
John, Ken, Ingrid, Chris R, Steve C., LHT, et. al can say/claim whatever they want with impunity and when challenged they either wave the persecution “cue” card or they begin the martyr march. Then claim religious superiority with proof texted/non-sequiter/poorly exegeted scripture about the “tickling of ears” or “the world will hate you because of me”.
On the other side of the fence we (myself included) try as best as we can to bring balance and perspective. We challenge lies, innuendo, and hyperbole. For the most part we get it right! We (the writers) all hold each other accountable and repent when we make a mistake (which happens often). Several of us as writers have had professional damage because of the rhetoric/lies that are perpetuated from the other side. But none of us, I repeat none of us have claimed “martyr” status or the persecution cue card.
Lest anyone think that I’m blind or playing team politics I want to ask a simple question. Which “side” (lets face it there are sides) is vulnerable, accessible, and open to rebuke?
Time and time again it has been shown where Ingrid, Ken, and now John have repeadetly misrepresented the “facts” to skew the “score-card”. And yet they continue on and are encouraged to keep “fighting the good fight”.
I don’t get it…really I don’t.
#93 Rick that IS Blasphemy. The most spiritual program is USC….
NC, I didn’t read Chris’ words, I can’t speak for him. I only observed your words, so yes, #1 does not bother me because I am unaware of it!
chris – the Judge is still tallying the “score”. I continue to learn things about the Lord and myself within the context of this game of “Verbal Badminton”.
I guess I can truthfully say that the two things I learn most are the diminishing of all of us and the exaltation of all of Him.
USC – Reggie Bush could never have gotten into Notre Dame, and his money under the table would have been discovered at South Bend.
The slightest infraction at ND costs you a scholarship. We play with dignity!
Yeah, it takes a lot of dignity to be beaten by the likes of Navy…
Phil – you have received your first admonition!
pb,
Then why, oh why, would you insert yourself into a conversation you don’t understand?
Prov. 26:17
And then there’s this, Rick.
What!
The overall record between the two is 9 – 9 – 1.
PSU enrollment – approx. 43,000
ND enrollment – approx. 13,000
We live by the Gideon principle!
The Judges 7:3 principle?
“Anyone who trembles with fear may turn back and leave…”
#45 Phil Miller,
Well, as we get pass some of the unbelievable comments here.
I agree as a musiciam myself I like to be able to hear things differntly when I am on the platfrom from when I am in the congregation.
Mostly at 56 my eras just can’t take the level like they used to, but UI do like the kick beating me in the chest.
The other area I get concerned with are the older folks who have come to me many times and really want to worship but feel like they are unable to because of sound level.
I went to a worship/concert recently and the sound was so loud that I couldn’t distinguish anything. I left and it ws better outside on the otherside of the wall than in the building. I also felt that the musicians had a great message but who could understand it.
For some fun listen to these guys. My son plays guitar or bass for them..
http://abovethenoise.org/
It takes a lot of dignity to go 1-10 also….
LOL!
Bring back Jerry Faust!
John – I am close to shunning you!!
Rick, shall we wager?
Perhaps a small bet, like say, you will sing the glories of USC when they beat Notre Dame this year for one full week?
And I, should the unthinkable happen, shall do the same for Notre Dame.
NC
I understood enough to be offended for My God.
I am sorry if I offended you in the process.
Perhaps a small bet, like say, you will sing the glories of USC when they beat Notre Dame this year for one full week?
ooooo I like that bet.
Imagine having parents that lived in South Bend, Indiana, a father that went to Notre Dame, me born in Los Angeles loving the Trojans.
Picture the Notre Dame /USC game, Joe Montana is QtrBack for ND and I am with my parents and family and I am the only one in the section a true Trojan fan.
Oh my, and the children shal be against their parents and vice versa… Hee ehee hee
Part of it is that Rick (or I ) must learn and sing the rouser of the schools…
Go Trojans!
Pastorboy,
You must be in SCal???????
Fight On for ol’ SC
Our men Fight On to victory
Our Alma Mater dear,
looks up to you
Fight On and win
For ol’ SC
Fight On to victory
Fight On!
nc,
Great questions for PB, doubt he will get it… let alone understand that your blood is not on his hands or ever was… it is on Jesus’ hands… and He already paid the price in full… but that is the point I tried to bring up to PB about his double speak…. he claims grace and reconciliation, yet speaks Law, judgement and condmenation… he is a spring of salt and fresh water at the same source… His words makes what salt he claims to lose its flavor…
You cannot mix Law and Grace… and PB and… well… pretty much all the ODM’s do it.
But again, PB will miss this or justify his actions or show us a blog post of his works to prove to us he does not depend on works…
My prayers are with him though and I hope for the best…
iggy
120
I grew up there, but never lost my love for the Trojans! (That is , trojan football)
UCLA is my College basketball team….