I know we already have a great post on this from Jerry. However, after reading the comments at TRUTH MATTERS, I was sick from the self-righteousness and judgment that was overflowing there. I wonder what all of the people who have not met Jesus yet think about an organization that is dedicated to tearing apart churches that do things different than they do. This MUST have been what Jesus envisioned when he talked about the church… wars over something as stupid as a costume. Jesus must be so proud of the public poll that asks reader’s opinion of the pastor’s intro. Really!?! Do we really need ministries that go around taking polls on other church’s sermon intros?

I just listened to a really great talk from Image Dei on loving the church and loving each other — and all of our differences. Check it out here.

I really don’t want to bring the whole he said, he said between Ken Silva and Richard Arbanes back to life but I found this thread to be interesting in the comment section. Many were up in arms that RA would threaten to sue a “brother” in KS. Indeed, there is not agreement here amongst the writers on the entire issue. What makes this comment thread interesting is the team politics that is happening. You see, I think this entire thing is more about a “us” verses “them” mentality than anything else. According to Mr. Silva someone else has gone to him privately and asked him to alter a post or that person would have to go to Mr. Silva’s Biblical authorities. What has Mr. Silva done? He has refused to follow the Biblical mandate and simply said, “no.” I’ll deal more with that later. But I want you to read Mr. Chew’s comment. He is saying that the Scriptures don’t apply to KS because RA violated them. Later, he goes on to say that the Bible doesn’t apply to the situation he is talking about b/c he is talking about free speech. The reading is unbelievable.  For people who like to rail against the emergents they deem heretical because of gray areas it certainly seems as though they are making a run at a little ambiguity for their own benefit. At the end of the day I am convinced this is about team politics than it is about following God, Jesus or the Bible. It’s about preserving what they are comfortable with and having something and someone to fight against. Below is the quote.

Daniel Chew Says:
August 5, 2008 at 9:14 am

CD:

Amen.

Phil Naessens:

Pastor Ken broadcast this mess because the ISP threaten him with the removal of his website unless he removed that “offending” article. So there was real action involved which have implications for the entire issue of free speech as well. If Abanes would just threaten Pastor Ken, or slander him, then yes, he should have turn the other cheek. As for 1 Cor. 6 and Mt. 18, they do not apply since Abanes has already violated them in going after Pastor Ken.

There you have it. What else can be said really?

Friends,

I’ll apologize at the outset for the offensive title to this blog post, but it is really the only way to say what I am thinking after reading Ingrid’s latest drive by display of ignorance. I am angry though about her most recent outburst against the Body of Christ. She was so willing to make a hit against someone that I don’t believe for a minute that she even listened to the sermon she criticizes. I am simply astounded that she has criticized this sermon delivered at the Grace Church. Here’s part of what Ingrid wrote:

Please take just ten minutes to watch the video. After watching it, you can vote on the website as to whether Christ was glorified or something else. You can forward past the out of tune guitar and singer, and just listen to what the pastor has to say.

We have been so far removed from Christ-centered worship, most evangelicals wouldn’t recognize it if they saw it. Worse still, because of a lack of biblical knowledge, the Scriptural metaphors and references within this hymn wouldn’t have any meaning to most reared at a circus church. We are generations deep now in biblical illiteracy, and that’s why the church and professing believers are in the condition they are.

See also the comments at Truth Matters where even more ignorance is on display. Here’s what the author there says:

When you have a spare 10 minutes, please go to the video link below. Before you get to the senior pastor’s introduction you will have to listen to the music director sing and then an associate pastor speak for about 2 minutes, then watch the Pastor’s introduction. The whole thing is very painful to watch. [You can also vote in their ridiculous poll which, predictably, favors a negative reaction. In fact, I had the only positive vote out of 33 or so.]

I suspect the reason why neither Ingrid nor the author of Truth Matters got it, and why they found the whole thing ‘painful’ is because they only watched 10 minutes of it, if they watched it at all.Well, just so you know, I watched the entire clip and I can say without reservation that this sermon was profoundly biblical in every aspect. I’ll only add a few caveats. First, he did look ridiculous in the Superman costume. But I suspect that he was playing the doppleganger by dressing in such an ironic way. Second, his outline was a bit difficult to follow, but he evidently provided outlines for the congregation. Third, he dealt with the Scripture from front to back. Fourth, aggghhh…he had people stand when he read the Word of God in order to, are you ready for this, ‘honor the Word of God.’ What a heretic!!!* (*Sarcastic)

Please someone tell me: What was painful about what he said? What was unbiblical about it? What did not glorify God? Mrs Schlueter, with all due respect here, did you even listen to what he preached? I am simply floored that they are bent about this message. The main part of the message, the overarching point was this: We are useless to God if we don’t forgive. How is that unbiblical? How is that painful? I’ll conclude by noting the main outline which follows this question: How can we be Biblical Supermen and Superwomen. Then I’ll note just a few bullet points that I picked up.

How can We be Biblical Supermen?

• The Biblical Superman puts his faith in the death and Resurrection of Jesus. Put your faith in Jesus.
• The Biblical Superman is committed to the local church in prayer, worship, teaching, fellowship, and accountability (and a few others)
• The Biblical Superman is active in serving Christ, using his gifts and talents.
• The Biblical Superman is always looking for divine appointments (This was really a brilliant point)
• The Biblical Superman is bold enough to share Jesus with others.
• The Biblical Superman takes responsibility for his actions.
• The Biblical Superman chooses to forgive.

Can someone point out to me, because after 13 years of preaching I guess I have missed the point, but can someone point out to me at what point this outline fails to honor God? Can someone point out to me how this is ‘painful’? This is one of the most biblically derived, expository outlines I have seen in a long, long time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this outline or the delivery or his exegesis or his orthodoxy. He argues for Pauline authorship, he tells us the historical circumstances that prompted the writing, he argues, first, that it is faith in the Work of Christ that makes the letter to Philemon possible in the first place.

I’m offering a challenge right now to the author of Truth Matters and the author of Slice: Point out one aspect of that sermon that was unorthodox or unbiblical. He dealt with the text from front to back. Offer one example of his failure and I will stop writing here. You cannot do it.

Now some bullet points in conclusion (these are a few things I picked up and wrote down, there was much more!):

• If you are harboring bitterness, God cannot use you.
• God sets up divine appointments.
• Philemon=loving
• Onesimus=useful
• Real biblical supermen choose to forgive.
• The grace of God makes us brand new
• Repent.
• Put your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
• Man is never more like God than when he chooses to forgive.
• The news of the Gospel is that God forgives sins no matter how ugly they are.
• We are NOT supermen.
• Paul is asking Philemon to forgive Onesimus
• Sometimes when people hurt us it is part of God’s plan for spiritual renewal (ie. salvation)
• Forgiveness always refreshes the body of Christ.

The church sang. They prayed. The stood when the Word was read–and to be sure, they only read, for the purposes of the sermon, three verses! (Even though he read nearly half the book in the context of the message.) They talked of forgiveness and grace and repentance and Scripture and love. I counted the word ‘grace’ at least six times on the website where I watched the video. Just so you know, I am writing this defense of the preacher who preached that sermon because I know he wouldn’t do so himself. What I fear is that some lost person will happen along Slice or TM and be turned off to the sermon without giving it a chance. But I’ll say this: If I was lost and heard that sermon I would be convicted that Jesus is Lord. I am not lost and I am convicted of the Lordship of Christ after hearing that sermon. What a blessing.

Ingrid: Give the sermon more than ten minutes. TM: Give the sermon more than ten minutes. Get through the pain of being confronted with the command from Scripture to forgive and listen to what the preacher has to say. You have both missed it entirely! Oh my God, it is so sad, so pathetic that these two blogs have run down this preacher, Christ’s body, this sermon for no reason whatsoever. Oh My God! I am convinced, and becoming more so with every blog post I read at SOL, that there is something seriously, seriously wrong with their point of view.

Ingrid wrote:

We have been so far removed from Christ-centered worship, most evangelicals wouldn’t recognize it if they saw it. Worse still, because of a lack of biblical knowledge, the Scriptural metaphors and references within this hymn wouldn’t have any meaning to most reared at a circus church. We are generations deep now in biblical illiteracy, and that’s why the church and professing believers are in the condition they are.

The preacher spent nearly a third of the sermon (at least a third, maybe more) explaining and re-explaining the history and background and text of the book to Philemon. He did his part to eliminate biblical illiteracy and he is criticized and it is said that the sermon and worship ‘did not honor God’?!?!?!?!?!? My guess is that the people at Grace Church are not among the biblically illiterate. I suspect this is a church that is very good condition–especially if their preacher preaches like this every single week.

Wow. I think it is time to put SOL and TM into the heap of irrelevance. They ought to be ashamed for attacking that message, that preacher, that church in such a way. Shame on you, SOL!! And shame on you, TM!! You have no ground to stand on in your criticism of this man or his message. And I think I know of what I speak since I too preach every single week. I won’t dress like superman, but who cares if I did? The point is that this man delivered an orthodox, theologically sound, expository sermon. I don’t care what he was dressed like on the outside. He was wearing Christ on the inside!!

Soli Deo Gloria!

Tags: Grace Church, Philemon, Slice of Laodicea, Truth Matters, Worship

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. – Jesus

I have heard this verse used over and over again by ODMs to show that few will enter into an authentic relationship with Jesus and find true life. This is usually in response to mega-churches that are using a “watered-down gospel” that leads hundreds to confessions of faith. That many people could obviously not enter into a relationship with Jesus… the road is too narrow. This verse is often used when large groups of people are at peace with the gospel (a man-centered, false gospel in their opinion). I mean, few will find this path… how could that many people have found our secret gate to life?

Well, this morning I was thinking about a thread I had started on God dreaming, and this issue came up again. I then had an epiphany (which hardly ever happens, so I was a bit surprised). The calvinist doctrine states that we are totally depraved, and completely unable to see God. He elects those who will come into a relationship with Him. There is no such thing as free will or human choice in the matter.

Well, then I started to think how that applies to this verse that most ODMs are so quick to quote. The gate, road and width of said road is completely irrelevant to the salvation equation. We couldn’t even see the dang road if we wanted to. Heck, the road could be 2 inches wide and the same number of people will get through, because we have nothing to do with it. So, I am not too sure how the gate even fits into the calvinist’s view of salvation.

so that was my thought for the day.

Friends,

One of the things that has always impressed me about CRN.info, is the willingness to allow any and all comments to appear in threads. When I first discovered this blog, it was like a breath of fresh air that the writers here do nothing to stifle conversation, nothing to prevent disagreement, nothing to censor those with whom they have differences. I have always appreciated that because more often than not what I have found is an opportunity for grace to flow freely and to be administered abundantly. Coming here and finding this kind of free flow of ideas and thoughts and grace was like walking into a flowered field after traipsing through a cow pasture.

The recent conversations here have been even more occasions for grace to abound. I have enjoyed many of the thoughts people shared with me concerning our family’s recent graduation. I was also very impressed with many commentors who took time here to wish Jim B prayers and thoughts as he goes through a very difficult season in his own life. I was also very encouraged when Chris L posted a lengthy essay concerning Roman processions and Mark’s Gospel. The comment thread was filled with effusive praise for Chris’ hard work and research. It was also very nice to pray for Mr & Mrs Schlueter while they were on vacation recently. I can honestly say, though, I really appreciate the conversations that take place in these threads even when we do not happen to agree with one another.

By way of contrast, however, many blogs that are critical of blogs such as CRN.info do not have comment sections. They prefer, instead, to write up their opinions and not interact with anyone who may have a differing opinion. I think this is sad because in a way it is like saying, “I have the only opinion that matters and I am unwilling to even consider that someone else may have feelings or thoughts invested in this.” (This is exactly why I accepted the invitation to blog here: Nowhere else on the internet does grace flow so freely. I am treated better by some atheist’s whose blogs I visit than I am by some of the drive by ODM’s who visit here.) So I got to thinking, after spending some time reading the posts of some other bloggers where comments do not appear, what the conversation might look like if comments were allowed to appear. I have paraphrased what such a conversation might look like and what sort of devilry it might contain.

Sven

Wow. That was amazing. I have never read such a compelling damnation of Wick Rarren’s apostate heretical teaching in all my life. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I have blogged about it and I am feeling rather persecuted because I wrote about it. I request that my bio be posted on page 483 of Boxes Mook of Fartyrs because I suffer for my blog. (PS–if you’d like to help me, please make a contribution to my tax deductible tip jar.) My ministry is so important, but I will rise up and overcome. So many benefit from my work.

Jansenboy

Wow. That was amazing. Imagine how nice life would be in the church if everyone just thought like we did! Imagine how wonderful the church would be if we were the only Christians! Oh wait! We are the only Christians!!!!! On the other hand, since we are the only Christians….well, nevermind. I am the best witness on the planet! Yea! Watch me witness! Yea! What me condemn others who disagree with me!

Inga

When I was 18, I went on a field trip to a local zoo. There I was terrified to learn that there is actually more than one species of bird. All my life I had grown up my family farm thinking the only bird that existed was the chicken. I know one thing, those other birds are not birds at all. They are imposters, fakes, frauds, phonies. They only have faux feathers. They are not birds at all!

Wiggy

Don’t you all think you are being a little hard on these other folks? Isn’t there any room for grace in your church? Didn’t Jesus die for us all? I mean, I have never read anywhere that Wick Rarren denied that Jesus was Lord or that communion didn’t matter or that the Bible was errant.

Jansenboy

Jesus only died for the elect and all the rest are going to eternal hell in an eternal hand basket. I witness better than anyone. Wanna fight? Doesn’t matter. The other day, I watched a church get wrecked because they had a motorcycle in the building. I’m sure that it is absolute heresy to have motor-bikes in the Sanctuary. Lalvin said so. So did Sputher. So did Curgeon. So did Peter. Paul. Inga said so. Sven wrote it! And Waul Pasher preached on it when he was witnessing to Gypsies. If Waul Pasher said it and cried while he preached it, then that’s enough for me!

Yrrej

Well. I am sorry you feel this way. I thought there was room in God’s grace for many people–those people God is fond of. I thought Jesus died for us all. I thought he died for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2) Your friend, yrrej.

Sven

We are not friends and don’t you ever insinuate that we are again. In fact, your presence at this blog’s comment section is absolute proof that God’s grace is narrow.  

Rick

What are friends anyway? I have written several posts about this myself. Send me an email and I will send you the full catalog of links.

Alittlelevity

Wick Rarren is the worst kind of theologian there is and his defenders are even worse. The only thing that matters in this life is getting rid of Wick Rarren because no gospel is better than what he is preaching and teaching.

Brede P

Jansenboy is right. You free-wheeling, purpose-driven, Maclaren loving, rubbing-elbows with the Dala Lama, Rob Bell Hitlerians are worse than Hitler and Rob Bell combined. You don’t read your own stuff. You are what you hate. You are what you eat. You are becoming the very people you are the inverse of. You lovers of all people don’t understand the grace of God at all. God’s grace doesn’t mean everyone who has faith is saved–it means only those who have signed our manifesto are saved. And I can assure you that anyone who follows Erwin McManus is not saved!

Fritjov

God made the world in six days.

Sven

Inga, didn’t you write a post about that on your other blog, and do a program about it on your radio call-in program, and didn’t you condemn The Shank and all who read it as universalists who follow a man-made Jesus, and post a podcast at one of your blogs, and a youtube video at your youtube channel, and write about it in your monthly newsletter, and at your other blog, and your billboards, and on the side of your airplane? We need to make people aware of this. Let’s all write posts about it on the same day and post them at our own blogs. I am feeling rather persecuted right now. My esteem is low.

Editor

Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah.

Inga

When I was 19, I went on a vacation with my family. We flew to the mountains and there we met the hated Yeti who was nothing at all like the Yeti’s we met on the other private jet we rented one day to go to a convention in Siberia. It was every one else’s fault that Jesus had to die. But that doesn’t change the fact that the Yeti is not going to heaven. We know this to be true because he read, yes, Yeti’s can read, the Porpoise Driven Couch and The Shank. Don’t you remember reading it in the Bible where it says that Yeti’s who read PDC and The Shank can’t get into heaven? I called my lawyer and he confirmed that the Yeti had no business whatsoever attempting to ge into heaven. But I forbid anyone else from talking to their lawyers about the Yeti.

Elof

What about that other guy who does nothing but defend the Porpoise Driven Couch?

Inga

I won’t even post that. You are banned forever Elof! I’m putting in a special call to Peter at the pearly gates to make sure you are prevented from ever setting foot on a cloud or touching a harp. Wiggy is banned too! I will not have any of you mentioning grace at my blog! You are only allowed to send me stories and comments about the failures of the Porpoise Driven Couch and the Shank.

Burr

I agree with myself.

Erlend

I agree with Sven.

Hulda

I agree with Inga.

Inga

I agree too.

Sven

I agree.

Jensenboy

I agree.

Editor

You had better agree with me!

Well, this is how I imagine such a conversation might go. It’s not a pretty sight to see. What I have learned, however, is that those who belong to the so-called ODM (I have a new definition: ADM and it’s not the supermarket to the world) are safe with Jesus. For the rest of us, Jesus is not enough. I recall reading something one day from a friend. I’ll paraphrase it: I’d rather be anything than an legalist. If you are a Christian, and you enjoy being saved by grace, go ahead and comment here. You are welcome. If you hate grace and think you are the only one saved, well you can comment here too because unfortunately for you those who agree with you do not permit comments only private emails. Still, we will welcome you with open arms and invite you to be a part of our family of commentors.

***This is satire. Any resemblance the above imagined conversation bears to real or computer generated people is sheer coincidence. Again, this is pure satire and the product of my imagination.***

HT: Slice

Tags: grace, satire

There has been a series of posts across the web that have made their way to Slice. They deal with the issue of whether or not God dreams. The general consensus of the ODMs is a big NO. God is all powerful and has no dreams of the future. This is especially true if it involves a dream that God gave Rick Warren to help cure aids and feed babies. It is even more true if Brian McLaren or Robert Schuler have a dream that God has given them

Well, that’s all good if you are a fatalist. If everything is set in stone, and the road map of eternity is unchangeable, then there is no need for God to have dreams for the future of humanity. But, in my world (and from what I pick up from scripture), God has so many dreams for the world. He dreams that no man should perish, but that all should come to salvation. He dreams that we would not resist the work of the Holy Spirit and would look more and more like Christ everyday. He dreams that his bride would be spotless for Him. He dreams that our true religion would be helping widows and feeding orphans. There are lots of dreams that I see.

Jesus himself wept over the city, because he knew that the sin of the people was moving them further and further away from the dream that God had for all humanity.

The truth is, even ODMs believe that God has dreams. They too believe that God dreams of a pure and undefined church. In fact, they see themselves as dreamkeepers and dreammakers in the grand scheme of thing. They are going to assure that the dreams of God take place with their wittings and warnings.

On a related note… one of Ingrid’s links was this post from Herescope. I didn’t agree with most of what the writer had to say, but found this quote interesting on a pretty cool prayer and fasting movement that is taking place.

The context for much of this activity is through food deprivation (fasting)

Funny how we change perspectives around for our enemies. If John MacArther called for a global prayer and fasting movement, the words “food deprivation” would have never been used. While the author did put “fasting” in parenthesis, I find their word choice very telling of their agenda.

Herescope only gives this as “the truth.” You tell me if this shows that God doesn’t dream

“Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD. (Jeremiah 23:3

2)

Branching off to a topic I don’t normally cover here, but one I’ve talked about several times recently to friends & family – on the topic of violence.

With our children (2 boys and 2 girls), we’ve set up a few rules when it comes to fighting, which have worked pretty well (apart from siblings, but that’s another story for another day).

For the Boys

All you have to do is ask my boys “What is Rule #1 and Rule #2?”, and you will hear the following (which I don’t know who to credit , since it was ten-plus years ago when the rules were put in place):

Rule #1: Never, ever hit a girl.

Rule #2: If you ever think you really, really need to hit a girl, refer to Rule #1

(NOTE: To avoid incriminating anyone by name, I will just say that the rules came into being after a particularly embarrassing incident, at a Kindergarten/First Grade bus stop.)

Every girl they have dated has gotten to hear these two rules, usually in casual, light conversation, just so that they know what we expect of the boys, as well. While this is not the sum total of what we’ve taught them about respect for the opposite sex, because of the ever-increasing mixing of gender roles, we wanted this to be rather firmly established.

One of my sons, ever the looker-for-loopholes, asked “what if she’s hitting/kicking/scratching me?”

My response: If you deserve it, you’d best just take it. If you don’t, then I suspect you can run faster than she can. If she can run faster than you, then you probably shouldn’t have ticked her off in the first place…

Additionally, we’ve let the boys’ girlfriends know that our girls also have a rule (albeit a different one):

Rule for Girls

My girls also have a rule (which also has a similar #2, though for simplicity we pretty much treat it as a single rule):

Rule #1: One and done. (i.e. If a boy hits you, he’s done with you. Forever.)

Rule #2: Even if he’s sorry, refer to rule #1.

In this case, we’ve made it clear “You do have to forgive him, but that doesn’t eliminate the consequences of him never having the privilege of being in your inner-circle of friends again.” One of the nice things is that this has set up good conversation on the difference between forgiveness and earthly consequences.

In Conclusion

While I have no illusions of perfection as a parent, I can say that this has been one of those bits of parental folklore that has been successful in the Lyons household. I can also say that bringing these up on a regular basis (particularly when they’re dating someone new or if we see a man striking a woman in a movie or on TV) has led to some very insightful and helpful family conversations.

UPDATE

This should not imply that my girls are allowed to indiscriminately use violence against folks.  Rather, they have the same expectation (”you don’t use physical violence, except in self-defense”), but I don’t hold them to a higher standard of chivalry.

Friends,

I have to be away from the blog for several days. This past week I have been at my in-laws. We were able to be together for the last four days of my brother-in-law’s life. Bobby was 30 and died from a brain tumor. He died Saturday evening around 7:30 or so. This morning we worshiped with his congregation in Poland, Ohio.

Crowder always seems to have words.

I thank God that death had no claim on Bobby. Thanks be to God for the resurrection of Jesus Christ–our hope!

“But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.”

Praise God! My sister in law said something amazing this morning at worship. She said, and I don’t even know if she planned it or not, but it was brilliant: It only took 30 years for God to accomplish in and through Bobby all he desired to accomplish. Bobby was a changed man because of Jesus Christ and a powerful testimony to all who knew and loved him. Bobby was so changed that he more than once gave testimony that he ‘thanked God for [this] disease.’

He died quietly and peacefully. He was surrounded by his friends, family, and a friendly dog named Cody who roams the halls of the Hospice. But more importantly, he was surrounded by the grace of God. We thank God Bobby is safe and hurting no more. We thank God for his abundant grace that saved Bobby 6 years ago. If you breathe a prayer for us, especially his wife Brandi, thank God that Bobby didn’t have to linger on for days. Thank God for His grace.

God Bless CRN.info this week as the writers here continue witnessing the powerful grace of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Soli Deo Gloria!

Tags: Crowder, Never Let Go, Resurrection

Thought this was an interesting quote from a recent interview of Ken Silva on CrossTalk

“What needs to be understood, Ingrid, is I am a pastor, that’s my function in the body of Christ. Whether I’m good or not, people can make up their own minds. I’m just stating a fact…
I’m using Richard Abanes as an object lesson, teaching here’s the fruit — this man is attacking a pastor!” (6:56 into video clip)

So, if people attack pastors, the fruit of their ministry is bad? Interesting. I wonder what that says about ODMs and Calvinism (since we’re making blanket statements that tie select people’s actions to a ministry ideology). Mr Pot, the kettle is calling.