“killing himself”?

yikes, just, yikes.

although, leaving a stain wouldn’t be a good thing regardless…

And Bush’s “play” to be a moderate hurt him because, depending on the issues, he’s not and he’s surrounded himself with people who clearly are not. So it looks like he’s either a liar or trying to play a game. And THAT’s part of the reason why I didn’t like him almost from the start.

I really don’t have much desire to get into more political debates, but it always kind of cracks me up to see people say Bush wasn’t moderate enough. If you read the things that people on the right say about him, they usually complain that he tried to hard to govern from the center, and he tried to compromise with the Democrats far too much. Some people never really forgave him for signing the campaign finance reform bill.

So I guess I kind look at like this. When a person is getting attacked from all sides, they’re probably doing something right. It’s kind of like how Rick Warren gets it from everybody.

I’m not saying Bush didn’t make some pretty big mistakes. He did. But from what I can tell he seems much more willing to accept responsibility for them now than other presidents. Of course, apart from killing himself, there’s nothing he could do that would really silence his biggest critics. Even then, I’m sure some would complain that he left a stain on the rug or something.

“Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.”

So when our hearts entertain unchristian thoughts, the mouth verbalizes them.

The tongue is like the rudder of a ship and the bit in a horses mouth.

So when the tongue speaks these things, it adds to and reinforces those unchristian attitudes.

This process is a unique engine that creates enough power to fuel itself to create more, and is a blueprint for a self sustaining carnal machine that is easily stoked by the world of politics. And adding to this remarkable phenomenon is the fact that when this engine is operating at maximum efficiency is when it is most broken.

I think this OP is actually a really good move by you.

And Bush’s “play” to be a moderate hurt him because, depending on the issues, he’s not and he’s surrounded himself with people who clearly are not. So it looks like he’s either a liar or trying to play a game. And THAT’s part of the reason why I didn’t like him almost from the start.

I hoped and prayed he would be a uniter not a divider as he claimed.

I hoped “compassionate conservative” would be real. It wasn’t.

Very disappointing.

It’s not dragging him through the mud. It’s the historical facts that demonstrate that it wasn’t just Monica that garnered the critique. It preceded any of that. The moralist rhetoric was out there way before.

Secondly, I said I don’t disagree about Bush being treated badly. Although a stern critique of a presidency that has damaged our international standing is merited. This isn’t, despite the toilet disinformation of Rush Limbaugh, “Obama’s recession”.

I never justified any behavior.
I just said it didn’t happen in a vacuum.
So the “shock” is disengenuous from most quarters.
You kick people in the shins, they’re going to smack you back.

The facts of the rhetoric of evangelicals in 04 are the facts. They may not identify consciously with “neo-con”, but they still bought the bill of goods and were proud of it. Just do some research on Richard Land and his arrogant pronouncements after the 04 election.

Besides you seem to keep missing the part where I say ‘liberals and conservatives’ alike have treated the president poorly. Furthermore, it is no justification to say, ‘well, Christians treated Clinton poorly so it’s only fair to treat George Bush the same way.’

President Bush has been railed against precisely because of his ‘neo-con’ policies. The very fact that he plays himself as a moderate has worked against him, in my judgment.

ps–I am serious.

He did bring it on himself, but he was hated long before Monica and he got busy.

Jerry Falwell put out videos about how he ordered the murder of people that threatened his political career.

I don’t disagree that Bush has been treated like garbage, but you also have to admit that it’s the evangelicals who drank deeply from his neo-con policies and prided themselves on “re-electing him” in 2004–a big chunk of which clearly “listen” to people like Falwell.

with all due respect, former pres Clinton was never treated as hatefully and disrespectfully as current president Bush is. Furthermore, I could argue that Clinton brought much of that on himself with his disrespect for the office in general. But I’m not in the mood to argue. I said what I said and I stand by it: Bush has been treated like garbage by conservatives and liberals alike.

jerry

What went around, came around.
I know it’s not a popular thing to say, but I can remember all the naive conversations I had at my church with people so “shocked” over the reaction to Bush.

Please.

You reap what you sow.