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	<title>Comments on: Wait&#8230;, what?</title>
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	<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2008/11/18/wait-what/</link>
	<description>Engaging the depths of God and life in the Kingdom</description>
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		<title>By: john b</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2008/11/18/wait-what/comment-page-3/#comment-80309</link>
		<dc:creator>john b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=1807#comment-80309</guid>
		<description>Rick - you put into words much better then what I could have. So many believers utter lip service to &quot;grace&quot; and then trash sinners for sinning. 

I &quot;hit bottom&quot; in my sin, even as a staff member of a church and had to resign, but that church, so often maligned by the ODM&#039;s, lovingly restored me, without shame. I learned so very much from that painful episode in my life yet God allowed some good to come from it and as a result I am able to minister to grace to others. Admittedly, I have a hard time administering that grace for bitter Pharisaical Christians we so often see in ODM ministries.  

I would much rather err on the side of grace than judgment anytime. Occasionally some might think me &quot;liberal&quot; (what a hoot) but in that area I think Christ would have been a &quot;liberal&quot; in their mind.

I would love to see someone post an article on this and the resulting discussion.  Thank you for your wise and reasoned response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick &#8211; you put into words much better then what I could have. So many believers utter lip service to &#8220;grace&#8221; and then trash sinners for sinning. </p>
<p>I &#8220;hit bottom&#8221; in my sin, even as a staff member of a church and had to resign, but that church, so often maligned by the ODM&#8217;s, lovingly restored me, without shame. I learned so very much from that painful episode in my life yet God allowed some good to come from it and as a result I am able to minister to grace to others. Admittedly, I have a hard time administering that grace for bitter Pharisaical Christians we so often see in ODM ministries.  </p>
<p>I would much rather err on the side of grace than judgment anytime. Occasionally some might think me &#8220;liberal&#8221; (what a hoot) but in that area I think Christ would have been a &#8220;liberal&#8221; in their mind.</p>
<p>I would love to see someone post an article on this and the resulting discussion.  Thank you for your wise and reasoned response.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Frueh</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2008/11/18/wait-what/comment-page-3/#comment-80308</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Frueh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=1807#comment-80308</guid>
		<description>John - I cannot express in words how profoundly I reject the high browed hyperbole leveled against individuals and/or groups of people. Ingrid knows nothing about gay struggles and is obvious content to spew self serving invectives rather than reach out in uncompromising love and grace.

Many ODMs are very concerned with parading their doctrinal floats to the applause of many, but they are not interested in deepening their love and compassion toward sinners for whom Christ died. There will be some gays who commit suicide this very week because of a tortured self hatred and the reality of harsh, name calling rejection spoken by those who claim they know the Author of redemption&#039;s grace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John &#8211; I cannot express in words how profoundly I reject the high browed hyperbole leveled against individuals and/or groups of people. Ingrid knows nothing about gay struggles and is obvious content to spew self serving invectives rather than reach out in uncompromising love and grace.</p>
<p>Many ODMs are very concerned with parading their doctrinal floats to the applause of many, but they are not interested in deepening their love and compassion toward sinners for whom Christ died. There will be some gays who commit suicide this very week because of a tortured self hatred and the reality of harsh, name calling rejection spoken by those who claim they know the Author of redemption&#8217;s grace.</p>
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		<title>By: john b</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2008/11/18/wait-what/comment-page-3/#comment-80307</link>
		<dc:creator>john b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=1807#comment-80307</guid>
		<description>Rick, I was disgusted by the same use of &quot;queer&quot; as you. We will never reach those we do not respect no matter their sins. You know, &quot;love the sinner, hate the sin.&quot;

I do not necessarily agree with your apparent stand that Christians should not engage in the cultural battle if I read you correctly but it should be done with respect, something I&#039;m not sure Ingrid is capable of.

Has anyone else noted her article about Michael Jackson converting to Islam? I have not seen it anywhere else. Drudge would have had it linked I&#039;m sure and I did a google on it. Methinks Ingrid was hoodwinked by a tabloid. Would not be a first for her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick, I was disgusted by the same use of &#8220;queer&#8221; as you. We will never reach those we do not respect no matter their sins. You know, &#8220;love the sinner, hate the sin.&#8221;</p>
<p>I do not necessarily agree with your apparent stand that Christians should not engage in the cultural battle if I read you correctly but it should be done with respect, something I&#8217;m not sure Ingrid is capable of.</p>
<p>Has anyone else noted her article about Michael Jackson converting to Islam? I have not seen it anywhere else. Drudge would have had it linked I&#8217;m sure and I did a google on it. Methinks Ingrid was hoodwinked by a tabloid. Would not be a first for her.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Frueh</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2008/11/18/wait-what/comment-page-2/#comment-80300</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Frueh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=1807#comment-80300</guid>
		<description>Phil - here is another wonderful example of God&#039;s love and redemption that runs through SoL:

http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/culture-war/the-fairness-doctrine-comes-to-eharmony/

Notice these redemptive gems - &quot;gay fascism outrage&quot; and &quot;queer shakedown&quot;.  This is what happens when Christianity morphs into a culture war and is championed by sinners who claim to be standing in grace personally but whose hobby is sowing Christless law through adolescent invectives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil &#8211; here is another wonderful example of God&#8217;s love and redemption that runs through SoL:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/culture-war/the-fairness-doctrine-comes-to-eharmony/" rel="nofollow">http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/culture-war/the-fairness-doctrine-comes-to-eharmony/</a></p>
<p>Notice these redemptive gems &#8211; &#8220;gay fascism outrage&#8221; and &#8220;queer shakedown&#8221;.  This is what happens when Christianity morphs into a culture war and is championed by sinners who claim to be standing in grace personally but whose hobby is sowing Christless law through adolescent invectives.</p>
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		<title>By: john b</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2008/11/18/wait-what/comment-page-2/#comment-80256</link>
		<dc:creator>john b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 05:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=1807#comment-80256</guid>
		<description>Good deal John.  My, dare I say it should Ingrid be reading it, &quot;experience&quot; was much the same. :)  I love church.

I do hope you wore your &quot;Sunday best&quot; to further consecrate the hour. LOL.

Not to belabor the point. I think we have probably &quot;spoke&quot; past each other and it&#039;s just not that big of a deal to me. I&#039;ve never been to a church that played secular music, well, except at the very end when people were leaving and the band was jamming. LOL

But I still won&#039;t tell other churches what their &quot;worship&quot; should be limited too if it is not unbiblical.  I guess I best be blessing all of your Sunday mornings in the future since it worked out so well.

LOL.  Have a good week bro.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good deal John.  My, dare I say it should Ingrid be reading it, &#8220;experience&#8221; was much the same. <img src='http://prophets-priests-poets.info/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   I love church.</p>
<p>I do hope you wore your &#8220;Sunday best&#8221; to further consecrate the hour. LOL.</p>
<p>Not to belabor the point. I think we have probably &#8220;spoke&#8221; past each other and it&#8217;s just not that big of a deal to me. I&#8217;ve never been to a church that played secular music, well, except at the very end when people were leaving and the band was jamming. LOL</p>
<p>But I still won&#8217;t tell other churches what their &#8220;worship&#8221; should be limited too if it is not unbiblical.  I guess I best be blessing all of your Sunday mornings in the future since it worked out so well.</p>
<p>LOL.  Have a good week bro.</p>
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		<title>By: john hughes</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2008/11/18/wait-what/comment-page-2/#comment-80252</link>
		<dc:creator>john hughes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 01:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=1807#comment-80252</guid>
		<description>John B.  Thanks!  We did have a great Lord&#039;s day at church.  About 4,o00 of us sang contemporary praise songs (gasp!).  Well actually we had five services.  One traditional with just hymns, two blended and two contemporary. We made it through all five services without one secular song sung and without a single chorus line. We laughed a lot BTW.  Raised our hands in praise and worship and then heard a great sermon.   Wow.  I was holding my breath on that one!  Pretty much everything was Godward (except our music minister&#039;s silly pun about his middle age spread).  

It is so cool and awesome to look out over the congregation, thousands strong and see them praising the Lord in **corporate** worship.  There is something special and thrilling about the synergery generated when two or more are gathered in His name.  It just takes on a special meaning and signifigance.  You know it&#039;s a special time.  A time set apart from the mundane and profance.  Why it&#039;s a sacred time.  That&#039;s it!.  A building of brick and mortor suddenly becomes a place where the Church, the true Church meets God in a special way.  You know, a sacred place, made sacred (i.e., set apart) not in and of itself but because of the people gathered there with common intent and purpose whose God **promised** He would make His presence known in a special way. 

So thanks for your blessing this morning.  It took!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John B.  Thanks!  We did have a great Lord&#8217;s day at church.  About 4,o00 of us sang contemporary praise songs (gasp!).  Well actually we had five services.  One traditional with just hymns, two blended and two contemporary. We made it through all five services without one secular song sung and without a single chorus line. We laughed a lot BTW.  Raised our hands in praise and worship and then heard a great sermon.   Wow.  I was holding my breath on that one!  Pretty much everything was Godward (except our music minister&#8217;s silly pun about his middle age spread).  </p>
<p>It is so cool and awesome to look out over the congregation, thousands strong and see them praising the Lord in **corporate** worship.  There is something special and thrilling about the synergery generated when two or more are gathered in His name.  It just takes on a special meaning and signifigance.  You know it&#8217;s a special time.  A time set apart from the mundane and profance.  Why it&#8217;s a sacred time.  That&#8217;s it!.  A building of brick and mortor suddenly becomes a place where the Church, the true Church meets God in a special way.  You know, a sacred place, made sacred (i.e., set apart) not in and of itself but because of the people gathered there with common intent and purpose whose God **promised** He would make His presence known in a special way. </p>
<p>So thanks for your blessing this morning.  It took!</p>
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		<title>By: nc</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2008/11/18/wait-what/comment-page-2/#comment-80246</link>
		<dc:creator>nc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=1807#comment-80246</guid>
		<description>All you people should just entreat Chris P to descend from his holy mountain and make a pronouncement. 

Since he regularly seems to think he&#039;s in a position to do so on these things. 

*cough* &quot;Holy Spirit&quot; *cough*

;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All you people should just entreat Chris P to descend from his holy mountain and make a pronouncement. </p>
<p>Since he regularly seems to think he&#8217;s in a position to do so on these things. </p>
<p>*cough* &#8220;Holy Spirit&#8221; *cough*</p>
<p> <img src='http://prophets-priests-poets.info/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: john b</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2008/11/18/wait-what/comment-page-2/#comment-80230</link>
		<dc:creator>john b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 05:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=1807#comment-80230</guid>
		<description>It would appear John Hughes that you are trying to be the arbiter of what is worship and what is entertainment......and still stuck on this hour thing?

Oh well. Enjoy your hour later this morning.  I will have a couple with the family at church. I will be teaching SS and I promise you we will laugh a bit. Hope that&#039;s cool.

Sincerely, have a good Lord&#039;s day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would appear John Hughes that you are trying to be the arbiter of what is worship and what is entertainment&#8230;&#8230;and still stuck on this hour thing?</p>
<p>Oh well. Enjoy your hour later this morning.  I will have a couple with the family at church. I will be teaching SS and I promise you we will laugh a bit. Hope that&#8217;s cool.</p>
<p>Sincerely, have a good Lord&#8217;s day.</p>
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		<title>By: john hughes</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2008/11/18/wait-what/comment-page-2/#comment-80217</link>
		<dc:creator>john hughes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=1807#comment-80217</guid>
		<description>But let’s let other local churches decide as their body how they will worship together without our &lt;strike&gt;ridicule &lt;/strike&gt; pity</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But let’s let other local churches decide as their body how they will worship together without our <strike>ridicule </strike> pity</p>
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		<title>By: john hughes</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2008/11/18/wait-what/comment-page-2/#comment-80216</link>
		<dc:creator>john hughes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=1807#comment-80216</guid>
		<description>JohnB  You are missing my point entirely.  American Christians are so self centered they cannot devote just one hour to worship (in what ever form) without demanding to be entertained.  That is my point.  And if they can&#039;t even do that then they are light years away from experiencing what you are describing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JohnB  You are missing my point entirely.  American Christians are so self centered they cannot devote just one hour to worship (in what ever form) without demanding to be entertained.  That is my point.  And if they can&#8217;t even do that then they are light years away from experiencing what you are describing.</p>
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